Possible 2000-5 update be released as an upgrade to the 2000C?

[carss]

Just got this idea, if Razbam is given the go to create a Mirage 2000-5 for DCS, can they release it as a cheaper upgrade to the original Mirage 2000C that we have, where in just like the GPS addon for the Mi-8 requires you to have the Mi-8 first, then you can buy the GPS for about 15 bucks.

 

Similarly a 2000-5 upgrade can be created and it would require you to have the M2000C first, and it can be sold for about 15 or 20 bucks?

 

 

[Prowler111]

Sorry, not a chance, it we ever develop a -5 it will be an independent module at full price, the differences between iterations of the same aircraft, in this case, are very critical

[carss]

Sorry, not a chance, it we ever develop a -5 it will be an independent module at full price, the differences between iterations of the same aircraft, in this case, are very critical

 

But out of curiosity, is there any chance it would be made?

[Flagrum]

But out of curiosity, is there any chance it would be made?

[baltic_dragon]

But out of curiosity, is there any chance it would be made?

 

I wouldn’t hold my breath.. don’t think it would be.

[MrDieing]

For the love of god... I have lost count of the amount of times this thread with the exact same question has popped up. This question was answered before the damn thing even released into EA. Oh well...

[ZHeN]

we need a search before asking meme here

[Teldja]

I am not asking Razbam to develop a new aircraft like the Mirage 2000-5.

But I wouldn't mind having that kind of "upgrade" like the GPS Tracker for the Mirage 2000C. :D

 

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Teldja

[=Pedro=]

I am not asking Razbam to develop a new aircraft like the Mirage 2000-5.

But I wouldn't mind having that kind of "upgrade" like the GPS Tracker for the Mirage 2000C. :D

 

 

 

+1

 

Should not be a big problem to implement :music_whistling:

[Fri13]

This is one thing that I have talked about here how the module makers could make more profits.

 

Base module > Upgrade A > Upgrade B > Upgrade C

 

OR/AND

 

Base module > Upgrade A

Base module > Upgrade B

Base module > Upgrade C

 

Meaning the new updated version requires owner has the previous base module owned and then gets the update version with lower price.

 

This would work very well for many cases as the upgrade can be a small one, so small price addition.

A special edition version (prototype or very unique one) that as well has small price related to the work put to it.

 

And then there can be big updates that are closer to like Mi-24A to Mi-24D conversion where whole front cockpit was changed, that is then a higher price.

 

If it is just a Mig-23 > Mig-27 then it is big price if the base model of Mig-23 is not the "Balcony" version so Mig-27 has same fuselage to start.

[ZHeN]

early indian upgrade ?

[feefifofum]

Everyone who suggests this would be a "simple" matter obviously has no idea what they are talking about. That is all.

[myHelljumper]

Everyone who suggests this would be a "simple" matter obviously has no idea what they are talking about. That is all.

 

This.

[Teldja]

Everyone who suggests this would be a "simple" matter obviously has no idea what they are talking about. That is all.

 

Regarding the Mirage Family, only Dassault would know for sure, obviously.

[Valium]

There's a huge difference between Mirage 2000C, Mirage 2000-5F and Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 / 2000-9 .There're completly different aircrafts with different systems, weapons and cockpit.

 

What's more, there's no any information about 2000-5F which could be enough to create this version. Forget about more advanced versions like Mk 2 and -9 are.

[Fri13]

Everyone who suggests this would be a "simple" matter obviously has no idea what they are talking about. That is all.

 

In case of Mirage 2000C to 2000-5 update, I don't know as I have no knowledge how much really has changed.

 

And when it comes to many other aircrafts, it would be scaling from "simple" to "near half a full new module".

 

But the key point is, developers could get new income to offer a small variation versions.

It would be like T-72 > T-72A > T-72B where you need to own the base module. But if it would be like T-72 > T-90 (T-72BU) then a almost a new module. But to own such, you required to own the base module, would be worth considering for developers as it would be A€+n1€ instead just A€ or B€

 

Many military vehicles are simple upgrades, keeping the base structure as much same as possible if there is no reason to change it (like Mig-23M > Mig-23ML vs Mig-23M > MiG-23B).

 

If you have already model mostly done, most avionics are done and you just need to do small adjustments (like Mig-23B nosecone), remove some systems (like radar) and add new systems (like the Sokol-23 target sight system) and tweak cockpit and flight model slightly, then is it worth of charging full price if you could sell Mig-23M AND then Mig-23B as upgrade?

 

Like look Black Shark and Black Shark 2 upgrade change... I think it was good idea from ED. I went to full module as didn't want to play around the dual installation, but it was era when internet speeds weren't so much useful for gigabytes downloads like today and you didn't use ED account so easily like now with module manager.

 

I could see that as a mechanism for many other things from weapon upgrades to ground unit upgrades etc, as long prices are fair for the content you get. Like 1€ per new skin could be nice for someone texture artist. A new cockpit language for 3€ could be nice for some translator and texture artist. A 30 new ground units like SAM systems, APC, could be nice for 20€ as package.

[MrDieing]

So many people are already crying because Belsimtek charge 15 bucks for a GPS. So many people are already crying that the AV-8B is going to be 10 bucks more expensive after pre-sale ends. And yet, you are proposing to let people pay for changing a nose cone, removing a radar and adding a gunsight. Who in the world would pay for something like that? And if there were some people that wanted to pay for it, it would not be worth the effort to reward ratio, as you need documentation, a model, textures and a code for it all. Its not as simple as you are trying to project it here by comparing it to tanks, which last time I checked were completely different things then aircraft. Oh and that last paragraph, no thank you.

[Valium]

It's like you would take Su-27 and would try to make Su-35. 'Almost the same construction' but inside is totally different.

 

Versions 2000-5F, 2000-5 Mk2 are completly different.

 

Once, I asked if it was possible to add MICA missiles to our Mirage 2000C. And the answer : No, hardcoded, too much differencies and work.

 

Version 2000-5F is in French Air Force. New cockpit, new systems, new radar, new engine, new weapons ( MICA IF, IR, ER ). It's something between C version and the Rafale which was before the introduce.

 

Version 2000-5 Mk2 could be seen in Hellenic Air Force.

The same thing + advanced A/G abilities ( SCALP, etc ).

 

 

The easier thing can be thinking about adding AM-39 Exocet ability which Mirage 2000 EGM in HAF has. Or adding R-73 like India did.

 

 

By the way, in Hellenic Air Force are :

- Mirage 2000EG ( C version with a few additions )

- Mirage 2000EGM ( with AM-39 )

- Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 - some new, some are upgraded EG version, that's why I'm not sure if EG version still exists.

 

 

 

What's more, I don't think it can be possible to create it even if there'd be some personas who would like to try this.

Notice, that F/A-18C will be without A/G radar and will be added in future. Using SCALP, GBU-12 ( without JTAC's help ) and probably AM-39 requires using this radar which doesn't exist in DCS.

Also, will be without AIM-120 for some time which shows how difficult all these things are. So I don't wonder even adding MICA is hard. It requires new systems.

 

There's no information about it and how it works. French don't want tell us how it works so forget about even EGM version. I don't even think about Rafale.

 

VEAO also stopped their project with Typhoon and F-15E. Not enough informations nowadays to do this.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Valium

[Fri13]

So many people are already crying because Belsimtek charge 15 bucks for a GPS. So many people are already crying that the AV-8B is going to be 10 bucks more expensive after pre-sale ends. And yet, you are proposing to let people pay for changing a nose cone, removing a radar and adding a gunsight. Who in the world would pay for something like that?

 

I would....

 

Mig-27 is different from Mig-23ML.

 

Other is for ground attack, other is not even when it has normal capability carry ground ordinance.

 

And if there were some people that wanted to pay for it, it would not be worth the effort to reward ratio, as you need documentation, a model, textures and a code for it all. Its not as simple as you are trying to project it here by comparing it to tanks, which last time I checked were completely different things then aircraft. Oh and that last paragraph, no thank you.

 

First of all, you are not starting from scratch.

When aircraft gets upgrades that are mainly inner parts, you are very near the finished product compared that you would start scratch.

 

You as well have the experience and most work already done. The main problems really would be to get the documentation about parts that are different and then the license.

 

I am not here saying you can do that just by snapping fingers and it is done overnight. Far from it.

But it is totally far far far FAR more easier and simpler than starting a new project from scratch that people are implying here.

 

You can ask from any 3D modeler that how much easier it is from them to modify a existing Mig-23ML model to Mig-27 model and you would definitely get answer it is nothing compared to start from scratch.

 

You can ask same thing from the coder who has 80% of the avionics programmed and need to disable some codes (no need to even remove them) about parts that doesn't match and then add the new ones. Definitely far more smaller project than starting from scratch.

 

This is always the funny thing that in real world talented people do amazing modifications to existing hardware. Be it then a cars, motorbikes or houses with far little effort than building the whole object from scratch. Even in military vehicles field modifications at the war time and engineering at war time when they get to know what needs improvements etc, things are rapid.

 

But when it comes to software, people think it is somekind magic that you have more trouble and more effort if you need to modify something existing that you have already made! That is the difference between porting and rewriting. Porting is easier and less modifications required than rewriting the software.

 

And we are now talking about software products where most parts are already done. This is not something like F-15C to be written easily to full fidelity module, but it is more about upgrading existing airframe, cockpits with some additional new features. Far from the big effort like doing the full module from scratch.

[DZShizzam]

Smh at this thread lol. People acting like minor aircraft variations are just a quick update to code that would take no effort. Just not how it works.

[myHelljumper]

Doing a Mirage 2000-5 is a huge change compared to the Mirage 2000C.

 

Every system is different...

[Jester986]

"No"

But...

"No..."

But the thing is...

"No"

People don't seem to get it...

[ZHeN]

the hud is almost the same :D the flight model, external model

 

but that's about it, I guess

[LURKINGBADGER]

delete thread pls

[BIGNEWY]

Sorry, not a chance, it we ever develop a -5 it will be an independent module at full price, the differences between iterations of the same aircraft, in this case, are very critical

 

Guys it is pretty clear an upgrade will not happen.

 

/closed