What are your axis sensitivites set at? (Harrier refueling frustration)

[Siinji]

What are your axis sensitivites set at?

 

I have the Warthog with 15cm extension, and having a frustrating time with refueling. Never done refueling before, and it's frustrating, I´m soooo way off, that I don't believe I will ever be able to do the subtle movements for this.

 

Watching the youtube videos just pisses me off even more, because how easy they make it look :)

 

...so.. axis sensitivites? What do ya think?

[BritTorrent]

I use this curve with a 10cm extension, for both pitch and roll axis. It works perfectly for me. Give it a try and see what you think.

 

Sorry for the picture quality, it's an old one I had on my phone. Let me know if you have trouble setting it up.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[CHRISXTR3M3]

What are your axis sensitivites set at?

 

I have the Warthog with 15cm extension, and having a frustrating time with refueling. Never done refueling before, and it's frustrating, I´m soooo way off, that I don't believe I will ever be able to do the subtle movements for this.

 

Watching the youtube videos just pisses me off even more, because how easy they make it look :)

 

...so.. axis sensitivites? What do ya think?

 

 

 

...are you using autoflaps during AAR?

 

 

Because you're supposed to set them to cruise manual mode...hope that helps

[Gladman]

Deadzone = 2

Saturation X = 98

Saturation Y = 98

Curvature = 30

 

 

I do this for both axis and it helps immensely.

 

 

Now the reality is that the Harrier is a real bugger to tank vs a Hornet simply because of the probe location. You need to get the HUD indications aligned with the prop edge and the probe line coming in between the HUD and the box that says "Left, Ready, Right" on it. Tricky, but its a practice thing. Lots and lots of practice.

[Siinji]

...are you using autoflaps during AAR?

 

 

Because you're supposed to set them to cruise manual mode...hope that helps

 

Yes, cruise mode. I saw this in a youtube video. Thanks!

[Siinji]

Deadzone = 2

Saturation X = 98

Saturation Y = 98

Curvature = 30

 

 

I do this for both axis and it helps immensely.

 

 

Now the reality is that the Harrier is a real bugger to tank vs a Hornet simply because of the probe location. You need to get the HUD indications aligned with the prop edge and the probe line coming in between the HUD and the box that says "Left, Ready, Right" on it. Tricky, but its a practice thing. Lots and lots of practice.

 

 

Yeah, I also saw this in a youtube video, how to align the probe line. They make it look so easy. I´m mostly wobbling around. "Pilot-induced-oscillation", I guess it's called.

 

I dunno.... I just seem sooo way off, compared to what people are doing on videos. But will try a refuel everyday for the next month :)

 

But interesting Curvature setting you have at 30. I have max gone up to 15 or so. So maybe I´m way off.

 

Originally I though that with the 15 cm extension I wouldn't need any curvature at all. That's what I use in my KA-50, which is my main aircraft.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Siinji

[Gladman]

For reference I use a 10cm extension but I doubt the value would need adjustment.

[sea2sky]

If you never done refueling before, and Harrier is your first time when you do it - you've chosen the hardest path :). Any ways, I don't touch saturation but I set curves on all aircraft to be 25. That helps big time. Another thing that helps is to set flaps in the cruise mode, and adjust the trimmer so that you would have to do a minimal stick movements. Good luck!

[Kayos]

You may want to start with an easier plane to learn.

[earnil]

What helped me a lot is that I started to use gentle rudder inputs for lateral control rather then ailerons. Also, most probably you're not doing this, but still I'll mention it - don't look at the basket once it's past the refueling lights on your canopy frame.

 

You need to know how the 'right' position looks like when looking at the plane (I look at the engines and refueling pod usually and it works ok)

 

In the end, I actually find Harrier easier then Mirage. It seems to me that it's much more stable and smoother and generally easier to control. Maybe I'm not doing it right with Mirage, but every time there's a slightest change of speed it either dips or climbs and I find it quite hard to cancel out.

 

Harrier is just much more docile compared to that.

[jd_jay]

My experience with it so far after lots of practice, is that I've finally learned the positions to aim for and its 50/50 whether I connect or not nowadays, BUT the bit I struggle with is im not sure if its me, but it seems to disconnect far to easy, always seems like the hose has no give in it at all. I refuel for about 10 seconds tops.

[davidp57]

My tips for AAR :

- start well trimmed (and trim as you take on fuel : it's heavy)

- don't concentrate your gaze on a point but let it drift (large FOV, sort of)

- choose anchor points on the tanker (engine, refuelling pipe) and your craft (AAR lights panel, HUD, heading indicator) and imagine you're a IRMV seeker trying to make these points stay in the same relative positions

- try not to react but anticipate the plane moves : you're flying slowly and when slow it has a great deal of inertia and is slow to respond to commands ; so if you induce oscillations it's because your commands are too late

- practice, practice, practice ; and when done : practice the other side ;)

 

Hope this helps

[Sarge55]

Lots of good points above.

 

One thing that helped me was to pause TrackIr (if you use it), once you're close to the tanker. I have a small dead zone set but by pausing I can move my head a bit more to watch the various key positions.

[Smoked]

I also teach my new guys learning AAR is to "drive" through the basket a good 5-10 feet once they make contact and get in closer to the tanker. It allows some leeway when you start taking on fuel. In other words, don't try and come to a dead stop at the basket, just grab it and keep moving foreword.

[Doum76]

What are your axis sensitivites set at?

 

I have the Warthog with 15cm extension, and having a frustrating time with refueling. Never done refueling before, and it's frustrating, I´m soooo way off, that I don't believe I will ever be able to do the subtle movements for this.

 

Watching the youtube videos just pisses me off even more, because how easy they make it look :)

 

...so.. axis sensitivites? What do ya think?

 

X-56 Rhno here, for the purpuse of the AV-8B, i simply changed saturation, on my case since i fly helicopters as well so i'm using a realy soft and short spring on my joystick to dim down a lot the resistance, i had to drop saturation, flying a bird with a mostly loose stick is not easy, it gets really sensitive, specialy on delicate maneuvers like flying formation or refueling, so saturation for roll are at 66 for Y axis and saturation for pitch 90 for Y axis. With proper trimming refueling is now with a lot of practice back of me, pretty much a child play.

[baltic_dragon]

I am just finishing to build the AAR training mission and in the beginning I too was frustrated being unable to connect. After reading the NATOPS (very good pointers there) and talking to a Harrier pilot it suddenly became much easier. I'll include all the pointers in the mission.

 

The most important things to me:

A) fly a formation with the tanker, don't even look at the basket. Look straight ahead.

B) Very, VERY gentle and minor corrections with the stick and with the rudder

C) You can use AFC once you stabilize yourself at a good altitude (it actually is recommended by operating manuals)

D) Push the basket forward a few feet after you connect, will be more difficult to disconnect due to flying too slow

E) Trim, trim, trim.

 

Cheers,

 

BD

 

P.S. no curves on the joystick, it was much more difficult when I set up some.

[Headwarp]

Also be sure to set an appropriate speed for the task in the ME. I can't think of the speed for procedure off the top of my head however in my experience with any aircraft in DCS, if you aren't at or above the lowest recommended IAS for AAR the effect of throttle/stick adjustments is much larger. I.E. lose speed nose goes down, gain speed nose goes up, pitching nose up causes a drop in speed, nose down causing you to speed up. While this happens at all airspeeds it seems more pronounced when you're riding the edge of stall speed, and can make it feel impossible to fly level. The difference of 3-5knots could change the orientation of your aircraft and throw off your trim settings.

 

Keep in mind the Mission Editor only allows to set TAS.. while good for navigation, isn't so great for communicating airspeeds for whatever task the more altitude you have that might require a certain amount of airflow around the surfaces for stability. IAS would be more ideal imo.

 

A stable flight speed makes a world of difference imo. I actually find the AV8B easier to refuel than say, the Mirage, or any aircraft that uses a boom rather than a drogue in DCS, due to the nature of the AI boom operator.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Headwarp

[Vfa-81 Fix]

TM WH user here; no Extensions, Deadzones and no Curves works best for me.

In the end I think it comes down to practice, practice and even more practice.

 

If you havn´t seen this already, Mavericks Video is hands down the best on how to AAR in the Harrier:

 

[Tello]

This. - Trim, trim and then trim again. Especially good tip is to take your time and simply try and just stay in formation. Forget about fuel. Just follow that tanker around for 10 - 15 min. Then you have "trimmed" you eye to hand coordination for the small but very precise inputs that you need. The Harrier is actually the most stable AAR platform in my opinion once you get it right. And most rewarding to say at least.

 

I am just finishing to build the AAR training mission and in the beginning I too was frustrated being unable to connect. After reading the NATOPS (very good pointers there) and talking to a Harrier pilot it suddenly became much easier. I'll include all the pointers in the mission.

 

The most important things to me:

A) fly a formation with the tanker, don't even look at the basket. Look straight ahead.

B) Very, VERY gentle and minor corrections with the stick and with the rudder

C) You can use AFC once you stabilize yourself at a good altitude (it actually is recommended by operating manuals)

D) Push the basket forward a few feet after you connect, will be more difficult to disconnect due to flying too slow

E) Trim, trim, trim.

 

Cheers,

 

BD

 

P.S. no curves on the joystick, it was much more difficult when I set up some.

[mr_mojo97]

I don’t really find it a problem anymore. I have done AAR probably a couple of hundred times now in various aircraft. There have been lots of excellent tips. Mine are

1. know where your probe is - if you use vr then its out of view when facing forward. The probe is about head height and about 1m left of the canopy. So if you can visualise its position then it’s much easier to ‘put the thing in the thing’. Once you’re plugged in don’t look at it or you’ll be off course in no time.

2. Keep the engine shroud and refuelling pod of the tanker just below the canopy bar (whatever it's called) and that should keep you in about the correct position.

3. Relax and enjoy the show.

4. Make missions with less and less fuel so you’re having to stay on the tanker for longer.

 

Hope that helps

Edited May 18, 2018 by mr_mojo97

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I have a 10 cm extension for my Warthog, and don't use curves nor deadzones.

For me personally, only hooking up to the drogue is tricky because of the probe's position. Once you have contact, I find it incredibly easy to stay in position, because the Harrier is so stable and responsive to minor inputs.

 

Trimming when you're in pre-contact position is indeed highly recommended.