F/A-18C Force Feedback Support?

[Rain]

Hey guys,

 

For all of us who are using Force Feedback flight sticks, can you tell us if we will get it in the Hornet?

 

While I understand that Hornet is using FBW system you would still feel the rumble of taxing, touch down, carrier launches, stalls, vibrations etc...

 

If you make this happen it would be glorious!

 

What do you all think? How are your FF sticks serving you guys? Mine is going strong for years now... Wouldn't change it for nothing.

 

Cheers,

Rain

[petsild]

All other modules have feedback just the Hornet does not. I hope that this ffb feature later supplemented?

[Weta43]

I think it's a philosophical thing.

 

E.D. are trying for accuracy in the SIM, & there was feedback from a real pilots about this and other aircraft that the stick doesn't move relative to the aircraft when the aircraft shakes, so the stick doesn't move when the aircraft shakes.

 

My personal view is that while the stick doesn't move relative to the aircraft, the whole aircraft shakes relative to the pilot, which means that - as the only part of the aircraft I'm attached to, the stick shakes...

 

As an FFB stick user, I disagree with the approach.

The best outcome would be that the forces are there, and if people misguidedly believe that the stick shouldn't' move when the aircraft shudders, they can turn the 'shake' section off in the FFB tune dialogue.

[egaRim]

I would love to see FFB support for the Hornet.

 

 

Following effects would help a lot to feel the jet:

 

 

• increase in resistance as you pull more Gs
  
• same when your AoA goes above 22 as described in official document https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3281531&postcount=5
  
• general shake effects as described above
  

What's the current state of FFB implementation anyway?

 

 

It seems to me that we only have a rather subtle center spring effect.

[BSS_Sniper]

I think it's a philosophical thing.

 

E.D. are trying for accuracy in the SIM, & there was feedback from a real pilots about this and other aircraft that the stick doesn't move relative to the aircraft when the aircraft shakes, so the stick doesn't move when the aircraft shakes.

 

My personal view is that while the stick doesn't move relative to the aircraft, the whole aircraft shakes relative to the pilot, which means that - as the only part of the aircraft I'm attached to, the stick shakes...

 

As an FFB stick user, I disagree with the approach.

The best outcome would be that the forces are there, and if people misguidedly believe that the stick shouldn't' move when the aircraft shudders, they can turn the 'shake' section off in the FFB tune dialogue.

 

 

Just because the F18 doesn't take off vertically doesn't mean those of us that want to use it as a Harrier shouldn't be able to. We should just be able to turn vertical take off, on or off. Just kidding...I doubt this is something huge on the list. It's like asking for a rumble seat.

[Eldur]

The real deal definately has something which is like FFB - a dynamic "feel spring", even for the rudder pedals. So we definately should expect that to be modelled

 

Also, when the CAS fails and the control failbacks into MECH, the stick is being moved forward/back depending on elevator trim set.

Edited June 17, 2018 by Eldur

[VirusAM]

Something changed or the Hornet is still without force feedback and trim?

[crazysundog]

It has realistic FFB

 

Ie, no shaking

[AKarhu]

I would love to see FFB support for the Hornet.

 

 

Following effects would help a lot to feel the jet:

 

 

• increase in resistance as you pull more Gs
  
• same when your AoA goes above 22 as described in official document https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3281531&postcount=5
  
• general shake effects as described above
  

What's the current state of FFB implementation anyway?

 

 

It seems to me that we only have a rather subtle center spring effect.

That's one of the most misunderstood pieces in the book that's linked there...the thing works by scheduling the required stick movement per g or unit alpha against non-changing spring forces that are closely linear in relation to stick's displacement. That is, much like a non-FFB stick simulates elevator forces. Larger force per g or unit of alpha over the mentioned feedback effect results from that you need to bring the stick back further against the springs, not from springs pressing actively against you. In that sense, non-FFB stick is fairly accurate except of course the throw and forces are off for most of us.

 

 

The only thing that does change the spring forces is the trim motor that drives the center position at fairly slow rate. It is a constant speed electrical motor.

[Deano87]

The only thing that does change the spring forces is the trim motor that drives the center position at fairly slow rate. It is a constant speed electrical motor.

 

My understanding from the Natops was that the Hornet stick does not move with trim inputs in all normal flight modes. It will in the MECH backup mode but in normal flight I was under the impression that the centre point was fixed.

 

From A1-F18AC-NFM-000 - page I-2-47

 

“2.8.2.2.5 Pitch and Roll Trim Switch. Normally, movement of the pitch and roll trim switch electrically biases the flight control computers and the stick does not move. Little if any pitch trim is required in the auto flap up mode due to the automatic trimming functions within the flight control computers. In MECH, pitch trim moves the control stick fore and aft, changing the stick neutral point. There is no mechanical lateral trim.”

Edited December 20, 2018 by Deano87
Found Natops quote.

[AKarhu]

My understanding from the Natops was that the Hornet stick does not move with trim inputs in all normal flight modes. It will in the MECH backup mode but in normal flight I was under the impression that the centre point was fixed.

Yes, that's correct. Trim motor is not used in normal CAS (nor in DEL fallbacks I think remembering). Normal trimming is accomplished by control electronics without any resulting stick movement.

[VirusAM]

It has realistic FFB

 

Ie, no shaking

 

 

 

i am not referring to shaking...it is quite obvious that there is not shaking in a fbw jet

[VirusAM]

Yes, that's correct. Trim motor is not used in normal CAS (nor in DEL fallbacks I think remembering). Normal trimming is accomplished by control electronics without any resulting stick movement.

 

 

 

from what i understand from lex comments in its discord in landing mode the behavior changes. And also changes on aoa higher then 22 degrees.

[Deano87]

from what i understand from lex comments in its discord in landing mode the behavior changes. And also changes on aoa higher then 22 degrees.

 

Incorrect. The centre point of the stick in the Hornet does not move in normal operations during any phase of the flight, including landing while trimming on speed etc.

[VirusAM]

Incorrect. The centre point of the stick in the Hornet does not move in normal operations during any phase of the flight, including landing while trimming on speed etc.

 

 

 

mmm that seems different from what lex said in his discord channel

[VirusAM]

Here

 

 

and here

 

[Deano87]

I asked Lex specifically the following question.

 

 

And in all of the Hornet paperwork I’ve seen it specifically states that the stick DOES NOT MOVE during trimming.

[Icaro_07]

Well at least the ffb joystick should move to give the feel of being out of trim.

[pdebaty]

I would really love to see FFB for the F18.

The F14 has great FFB support, can't the ED team use the same code and apply it to the F18?

Or could Heatblur release their superb FFB support as an add-on module that could work on any plane?

With proper FFB support from more games, perhaps more manufacturer would show interest in making a new FFB joystick.

That would be amazing.

[Mnemonic]

+1 for improving FFB implementation on Hornet, it’s one of the best modules out there and it’s lacking in FFB department comparing to others

[Supernova-III]

On 6/16/2018 at 12:57 PM, egaRim said:

increase in resistance as you pull more Gs

it's not the case for the hornet, to the best of my knowledge. Some planes have that due to bob weights in the control system (like F-4, F-14, A-10), some planes don't. F-18 doesn't have it.

[obious]

I read somewhere recently that ED have received an AB9 unit from Moza and are/will be working on outputting better telemetry for their modules. I'm pretty sure it was a post from Wags but I can't find it after spending 5-10 mins look for it. @NineLine are you able to confirm plz? 

[Phantom711]

Am 2.12.2019 um 02:46 schrieb Icaro_07:

Well at least the ffb joystick should move to give the feel of being out of trim.

The stick in the Hornet does not move with trim.

[mongo52]

12 hours ago, Phantom711 said:

The stick in the Hornet does not move with trim.

Pretty sure the stick will move in relation to nose up or nose down trim. Doesn't move left wing down or right wing down. Been a few years since I've played in the cockpit of a real legacy hornet. 

[Vladinsky]

1 hour ago, mongo52 said:

Pretty sure the stick will move in relation to nose up or nose down trim. Doesn't move left wing down or right wing down. Been a few years since I've played in the cockpit of a real legacy hornet. 

Only in MECH, which is likely not modeled.

Edited January 3 by Vladinsky