Will FA-18C Continue with development now that F-14 is on the horizon

[captflyby]

The FA-18C is about half way to its completion, but still a lot of systems and functionality are missing.

 

Do those of you who have been in DCS for a long time believe, now that the F-14 is on the horizon, that this will distract from the FINISHING of the FA-18C, or at least slow its progress, or am I just paranoid?

[drPhibes]

Why on earth would ED stop development of their own module because someone else is making a F-14? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

[NeilWillis]

For your information captflyby, Eagle Dynamics and Belsimtek are the developers of the F/A-18C, and an entirely independent group called Heatblur are producing the F-14 under license. The teams operate entirely separately, with their own staff and resources.

 

 

So, the answer to your question is no, the F/A-18C will continue to be developed, without being affected by Heatblur's project.

 

 

The only crossover is when the F-14 is handed to Eagle Dynamics for final testing before being distributed through Eagle Dynamics update system.

[Goa]

F18 and F14 are being devloped respectively by Eagle Dynamics and Heatblur Simulations therefore are 2 indepenednt modules from each other, even tough the F14 and F15E (which is being developed by Razbam) are dependent on the air-ground radar under development by Eagle Dynamics :)

[captflyby]

Great response and fast too. Thanks guys.

 

 

The reason for asking is that it seems my squadron has F-14 fever and a lot are dropping the F-18 the moment the F-14 comes out.

 

 

I personally might try the F-14, but am invested in the F-18 and want it to see it completed.

 

 

 

I have been told a lot of aircraft don't get completed, whoever makes them, and thus is the reason for my question.

Edited October 25, 2018 by captflyby

[Eldur]

Especially paranoids have enemies.

 

Corrected that for you. Around 10 billion they have.

 

The only thing ED has to do with the Tomcat is throw it in the bucket and see if everything still works once HB's given them the ready-for-early-access version. And that's not even something to be done by the ones who do the Hornet things.

[captflyby]

OK good.

No slow down then on FA-18C development.

I love that plane!

[BoneDust]

For your information captflyby, Eagle Dynamics and Belsimtek are the developers of the F/A-18C, and an entirely independent group called Heatblur are producing the F-14 under license. The teams operate entirely separately, with their own staff and resources.

 

 

So, the answer to your question is no, the F/A-18C will continue to be developed, without being affected by Heatblur's project.

 

 

The only crossover is when the F-14 is handed to Eagle Dynamics for final testing before being distributed through Eagle Dynamics update system.

 

+1 Good reply. :thumbup: The guy may be new and not familiar with the various developers. So, his question was not a bad one for new community members.

[Rescue]

A other aspect is that the F/A-18 got a other spectrum than the F-14.

The F-14 is an Air supority fighter with later on some Air-to-Gorund capabilities.

The F/A-18 is a Multirole fighter and will have a much bigger Arsenal for A/G, but will miss the Phoenix missile.

 

I think both will have a place and their pilots here in DCS. I personaly will stay with the F/A-18.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Rescue

[captflyby]

+1 Good reply. :thumbup: The guy may be new and not familiar with the various developers. So, his question was not a bad one for new community members.

 

 

Yes I am relatively new to DCS.

Nothing against either the F-18 or the F-14.

Both I am sure will be excellent planes - when completed.

[arturojgt]

I'm talking from an "I don't know what I'm saying and talk from the obscure basement corner" but this only my opinion.

 

I think that the development of the F-18 reach a point where the information from the natops manual is over and they don't have the acknowledge to continue this aircraft with the level demanded by the community, that's the reason behind the development of the F-14, the natops f14 manual is so detailed, this manual will work for at least the 70-80% of the development then a new airplane will shadow the other 30 or 20% undeveloped part.

 

The lack of real data due to security reasons make so hard to start new projects, I will pay 150 u$s for a Tornado IDS but I not so sure about if the available public info is adequate to start the project (is a personal preference, maybe I'm the only want who wants that old plane).

 

I'm impatiently waiting to drop laser-guided bombs or do SEAD missions with my f-18 and a wingman with a Prowler (maybe I can do it right now and I don't know how) but I'm pretty sure that is better to start thinking to buy a new and more comfortable chair to spend this time at least seated with a beer in my hand.

 

I'm sorry for my plain English.

 

*Grabbing an umbrella and waiting for an imaginary bullet storm form the community*

Edited October 26, 2018 by arturojgt

[Deano87]

I'm talking from an "I don't know what I'm saying and talk from the obscure basement corner" but this only my opinion.

 

I think that the development of the F-18 reach a point where the information from the natops manual is over and they don't have the acknowledge to continue this aircraft with the level demanded by the community, that's the reason behind the development of the F-14, the natops f14 manual is so detailed, this manual will work for at least the 70-80% of the development then a new airplane will shadow the other 30 or 20% undeveloped part.

 

The lack of real data due to security reasons make so hard to start new projects, I will pay 150 u$s for a Tornado IDS but I not so sure about if the available public info is adequate to start the project (is a personal preference, maybe I'm the only want who wants that old plane).

 

I'm impatiently waiting to drop laser-guided bombs or do SEAD missions with my f-18 and a wingman with a Prowler (maybe I can do it right now and I don't know how) but I'm pretty sure that is better to start thinking to buy a new and more comfortable chair to spend this time at least seated with a beer in my hand.

 

I'm sorry for my plain English.

 

*Grabbing an umbrella and waiting for an imaginary bullet storm form the community*

 

Hi Arturo.

 

The F-18 and F-14 development have nothing to do with each other. The F-18 team are ED/BST and the F-14 is being developed by Heatblur, these are two separate companies. The F-14 has been in development almost as long as the F-18 has! :thumbup:

[Svsmokey]

"I'm impatiently waiting to drop laser-guided bombs or do Sead missions"

 

We all are !

 

"I'm sorry for my plain English."

 

Your English is better than many native English speakers:)

 

*Grabbing an umbrella and waiting for an imaginary bullet storm form the community*

 

You can fold the umbrella , threads like the one you might be thinking of don't happen often .

[arturojgt]

What about firing an Harpoon missile in a high speed low level flight with rain against some Russian destroyer? I don’t think this is going to happens either.

 

I think that the f18 sell curve is almost at the top and near in the flat part, I think that they don’t have any more data for this project other than natops f18 manual or speculations and there is not any legal data about weapons or A-A or A-G radar in the web. So the system implemented in this plane will have the same code as the F-15, A-10 and will be a mix of this two airplane systems.

 

I think the f18 development is almost finished or near to that point and with this new aircraft in the horizont (no matter who is the owner of the f14) and the lack of data or the need to not go public with some sensitive info will make this project go to the freezer.

 

In the security world exist compartimentalization of the information and they work based in “the need to know” so the only way the developers can really know about the f18 weapon system is if they had worked in that systems or will involved in direct way with that equipment.

 

They will have a new boost in sales if they can develop the AG radar to use with other weapons and not just adding the laser and Tv code used in the A10, I’m waiting for new weapons not just a maverick.

 

I work in a hospital, in the operating room area but you don’t know if I’m the chief of that area, a gastroenterologist, a general surgeon (maybe I have the three jobs ;)) or I’m just am administrative employee and now im exagérating about it, the amount of data that I use to have in my hands or have now and the filter job that im doing to prevent a real leak of “sensitive data”.

 

Come on is just a game, nobody will gather military intelligence data from a game, just imagine after a keynote presentation for Kim Jong-un:

 

Kim- Well done Mr. Ryan, where did you get that so precise information about the F-18?

 

Jack- From a game my general.

 

I want to be wrong in this topic. I love this simulator, I spent a lot of money to use VR but this is what I think.

 

I’m sorry, I know that I’m not making any friends right now but this is something that I have inside and need to be said.

 

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[Svsmokey]

What about firing an Harpoon missile in a high speed low level flight with rain against some Russian destroyer? I don’t think this is going to happens either.

 

I think that the f18 sell curve is almost at the top and near in the flat part, I think that they don’t have any more data for this project other than natops f18 manual or speculations and there is not any legal data about weapons or A-A or A-G radar in the web. So the system implemented in this plane will have the same code as the F-15, A-10 and will be a mix of this two airplane systems.

 

I think the f18 development is almost finished or near to that point and with this new aircraft in the horizont (no matter who is the owner of the f14) and the lack of data or the need to not go public with some sensitive info will make this project go to the freezer.

 

In the security world exist compartimentalization of the information and they work based in “the need to know” so the only way the developers can really know about the f18 weapon system is if they had worked in that systems or will involved in direct way with that equipment.

 

They will have a new boost in sales if they can develop the AG radar to use with other weapons and not just adding the laser and Tv code used in the A10, I’m waiting for new weapons not just a maverick.

 

I work in a hospital, in the operating room area but you don’t know if I’m the chief of that area, a gastroenterologist, a general surgeon (maybe I have the three jobs ;)) or I’m just am administrative employee and now im exagérating about it, the amount of data that I use to have in my hands or have now and the filter job that im doing to prevent a real leak of “sensitive data”.

 

Come on is just a game, nobody will gather military intelligence data from a game, just imagine after a keynote presentation for Kim Jong-un:

 

Kim- Well done Mr. Ryan, where did you get that so precise information about the F-18?

 

Jack- From a game my general.

 

I want to be wrong in this topic. I love this simulator, I spent a lot of money to use VR but this is what I think.

 

I’m sorry, I know that I’m not making any friends right now but this is something that I have inside and need to be said.

 

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

 

I think you are being unnecessarily pessimistic . ED's consumer business would die very quickly if they took people's money and didn't deliver the product . In part , the delays we are experiencing are a result of the more accurate modeling of radar and weapons systems , which they plan in turn to use for other modules . I further think that the Hornet will remain their premiere module for quite some time to come , as it will still be the only true multi-role fighter in the sim . Finally , once all the hype dies down , and people find that the Tomcat is nowhere nearly as easy to fly (presuming it is correctly modeled) , i don't think its long-term demand will equal the Hornet's . Some will fly the Tomcat for the challenge , as they do the Mig-21 , but ironically enough , long term , the Tom Cruise-inspired set will gravitate to the Hornet !

[tintifaxl]

I believe the F/A-18C will become an outstanding module by end of 2019 latest. I predict we'll have a fully working AA radar and JHMCS by end of 2018.

[shagrat]

Great response and fast too. Thanks guys.

 

 

The reason for asking is that it seems my squadron has F-14 fever and a lot are dropping the F-18 the moment the F-14 comes out.

 

 

I personally might try the F-14, but am invested in the F-18 and want it to see it completed.

 

 

 

I have been told a lot of aircraft don't get completed, whoever makes them, and thus is the reason for my question.

I am pretty sure ED will finish their F/A-18C. The F-14 is definitely a nice plane, unique, as it will be the first real combat airplane with multiplayer dual-seat in DCS, but it also lacks some of the more modern gadgets of the F/A-18C and cannot do all the mission profiles the F/A-18C can likely do. No HARM, no SEAD. Only LGB and no JDAM. No JSOW. No JHMCS and AIM-9X... on the other hand a RIO (Jester AI), AIM-54 Phoenix, and ATFLIR etc. overall two cool planes, with different mission profiles that complement each other in real life, as well as in DCS.

 

I will definitely enjoy both.

[Deano87]

What about firing an Harpoon missile in a high speed low level flight with rain against some Russian destroyer? I don’t think this is going to happens either.

 

But why? The only thing we are missing from that is the Harpoon, which is coming!

 

I think maybe you don’t quite understand the process of module development, one of the first things ED does before committing multiple millions of dollars developing a module like the F-18 is make sure they have all the resource material required to model everything. And if you listen to the interview with Wags you know that he has access to stuff which isn’t public domain.

 

Of course they will have to fudge a few things to maintain their classified nature. But I guarantee that if the weapon is on the list things that is going to be added to the F-18 they have more about it then just a photo and a link to its Wikipedia page.

 

Stop being so gloomy! We are getting new weapons and systems it just takes time!

[Varis]

In any case the development of F-18 could take a very long time (several years), that's just the usual time span of modules and the plane is a rather big one. I agree that if ED didn't at least believe that they can sources much of the required information in the future, their move to release the module would be a bad one. IF there is difficulty in obtaining some materials I would imagine ED has alternative sources for information, or methods of piecing up some missing parts. It's mostly empty speculation unless you can give us details on how different kinds of military information are kept under wraps and how various details tend to surface to the public sphere.

 

It can be surprising how much you can glean from public sources (there were some episodes with Tom Clancy's work that touched the issue). And intelligence gathering from public sources like computer games could be a thing - a DCS module could even help as a reference if you expect to go against or acquire a given aircraft. The F-18 is one of the few that is still flying although many nations probably are looking to replace it. Things might be somewhat different in say 5 years.

 

For now it's more likely that other modules are suffering somewhat because there is pressure on completing the F-18. When the F-16 comes around things will of course change: people will be clamoring for updates on F-16, there will be much more attention on the aircraft, new sales prospects etc. It would be reasonable that some developers are moved to the F-16 project at that time and F-18 put more on a regular/backburner status. I can't see a reason why F-18 would stop, mind you. My reading of ED's practices is that they like to keep small teams working in parallel somewhat independently and usually not move resources around as that can be somewhat counterproductive. But there is some pressure to do so time to time.

 

Taking in account the long development time you'd be well advised to consider the F-18 for what it is today. What I hear it can already perform an air to air role in multiplayer but is somewhat gimped due to a few radar features missing. The flight model is good and much of the cockpit functionality is there.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Varis

[maxTRX]

What about firing an Harpoon missile in a high speed low level flight with rain against some Russian destroyer?

 

Well... what about it;) You'll have lots of fun going against the fully functioning battle group.

 

It's more fun to whack a civilian tanker or cargo hauler... with guns:pirate:

 

and Kim?!… he loves DCS!

[Eight Ball]

I'm talking from an "I don't know what I'm saying and talk from the obscure basement corner" but this only my opinion.

What about firing an Harpoon missile in a high speed low level flight with rain against some Russian destroyer? I don’t think this is going to happens either.

Right...

 

There have been a lot of questions regarding what sensors and weapons will be available at the launch of the early access DCS: F/A-18C Hornet. This decision is based on balancing a great, first experience, while getting quickly into the hands of those prefer early access adoption. We realize that early access is not for everyone, but for many, it is. If you prefer a completed product, we ask that you wait for the final release. Take that time to monitor previews and early access reports to make an informed purchase.

 

We believe that starting with the more “simple” systems at early access roll-out allows a more shallow learning curve at the start. By then adding new systems gradually, it introduces the Hornet’s sensors and weapons in a more structured manner… much like what a real Hornet pilot goes through when learning the aircraft. This also allows us more time to fully develop the more complex systems in a way that delivers the most realistic experience possible.

 

Note that this is all very much subject to change for our mid-2000s F/A-18C USN Hornet.

 

Sensors:

• A/A radar with RWS, STT, and ACM modes
  

 

Weapons:

• Mk-82 series
  
• Mk-83 series
  
• Mk-84 series
  
• CBU-99 and Mk-20 Cluster Bombs
  
• BDU-33 Training Bomb
  
• BDU-45 Training Bomb
  
• 2.75 inch rockets
  
• 5 inch rockets
  
• 20mm cannon
  
• AIM-9L/M and CATM Sidewinder
  
• AIM-7F/M Sparrow
  

 

Following the early access release, we plan to include many more sensors, weapons, and decoys for the final product. Please note that this list is also subject to change:

 

Sensors:

• A/A radar with TWS, SCAN RAID, AZ/EL
  
• A/G radar with MAP, EXP1, EXP2, EXP3, SEA, GMT, PVU, AGR, IRA, and TA
  
• AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR Targeting Pod
  
• Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS)
  
• Link-16
  
• AWW-13 Datalink Pod
  
• NVGs
  

Weapons:

• AGM-88C HARM
  
• AGM-45A/B Shrike
  
• AGM-84D Block 1C Harpoon
  
• AGM-84E SLAM
  
• AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER
  
• AGM-65E Maverick
  
• AGM-65F/G Maverick
  
• AGM-154A JSOW
  
• AGM-154C JSOW
  
• Walleye I ER/DL
  
• Walleye II ER/DL
  
• GBU-10 Paveway II
  
• GBU-12 Paveway II
  
• GBU-16 Paveway II
  
• GBU-24B/B Paveway III
  
• GBU-38 JDAM
  
• GBU-31 JDAM
  
• GBU-32 JDAM
  
• AIM-9X Sidewinder
  
• AIM-7P Sparrow
  
• AIM-120B/C AMRAAM
  
• Mk-40 Destructor Sea Mine
  
• Mk-63 Quickstrike Sea Mine
  
• Mk-77 Fire Bomb
  

 

Decoys:

• ADM-141 TALD
  
• GEN-X
  

 

[arturojgt]

Eight Ball.

 

Reading your post now I realize that I’m the guy with no info, hahaha.

 

Your list is now wish list for Santa for this Christmas.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

Sent from my Tornado IDS while on autopilot using Tapatalk Pro.

[Deano87]

Hehe all of that probably won’t arrive by this Christmas. But maybe next year we can celebrate hehe :beer::drunk::thumbup:

[VDV]

Why Harpoon is in red? Cancelled?

[shagrat]

Why Harpoon is in red? Cancelled?

Already on the "next to do" list. Keep cool! :)

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3661070

Edited October 28, 2018 by shagrat