shagrat Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Not sure which time period you guys mean but back in 1999 this was not the case. A lot of exxageration but stories get more exotic each time they are told...As mentioned, read Haun's book... It's available as PDF http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a421682.pdf from the ROE chapter: (...)"When an AFAC independently found a target in a restricted area or close to a village, it usually took 15 to 20 minutes to obtain approval."(...) ...and that was just normal procedure with the CAOC involved. They describe an incident where the approval went back and forth for much longer... Edited February 16, 2019 by shagrat Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Bro’, I was launched on an Alert 5 in down jet without even signing for the aircraft. No alignment, no VDI, No radar, No HUD, at night, with the capacity to shoot a boresight sidewinder in the dark. Think that would ever happen in the USAF? They’d launch a Congressional Investigation today... I also worked in MTC. Aircraft Division Officer. Navy guys tend to get it. Air Force? They check their jets out from the MTC squadron and mostly don’t see or care about what it takes to keep ‘em flying. Interesting stuff there - the Sidewinder Boresight mode, for when the WCS is off or malfunctioning. Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 This thread is so full of "Hurry up and wait", it's delicious. Just give me a weeks notice so I can book some holidays, I'll be ready whenever it comes. Normally when the folks I fly with get soemthing new, we sit there on comms doing the equivalent of "I wonder what this button does?" This time, there's going to be a crew doing it with different buttons at the same time. It's going to be mayhem. And we have a sweepstake for the first command ejection. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory205 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I thought you guys took offense not being called naval aviators :D Nope. Pilots and RIOs are Naval Aviators. Therefore, the distinction is made. Do you know where the term comes from? “ACM is like making love, most men believe that they are far better at it then they really are…” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horns Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 To be fair: Yes I can fly it with one engine and yes, I DO take that as a challenge! Methinks this will wind up as a community contest eventually... Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC] Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3 VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind, DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZG_Immel Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Nope. Pilots and RIOs are Naval Aviators. Therefore, the distinction is made. Do you know where the term comes from? not really. but i'd love to know ! air balloons crew ? [sIGPIC]https://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic70550_3.gif[/sIGPIC] Asus Z390-H - SSD M.2 EVO 970 - Intel I9 @5.0ghz - 32gb DDR4 4000 - EVGA 3090 - Cougar FSSB + Virpil WRBRD + Hornet Stick - Thrustmaster TPR Pedal + WinWing MIP + Orion + TO and CO pannels - Track IR5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinkickef Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Nope. Pilots and RIOs are Naval Aviators. Therefore, the distinction is made. Do you know where the term comes from? Carrier pigeons? System spec: i9 9900K, Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Ultra motherboard, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200 RAM, Corsair M.2 NVMe 1Tb Boot SSD. Seagate 1Tb Hybrid mass storage SSD. ASUS RTX2080TI Dual OC, Thermaltake Flo Riing 360mm water pumper, EVGA 850G3 PSU. HP Reverb, TM Warthog, Crosswind pedals, Buttkicker Gamer 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) As mentioned, read Haun's book... It's available as PDF http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a421682.pdf from the ROE chapter: (...)"When an AFAC independently found a target in a restricted area or close to a village, it usually took 15 to 20 minutes to obtain approval."(...) ...and that was just normal procedure with the CAOC involved. They describe an incident where the approval went back and forth for much longer... Sorry, I meant it especially for the Bundewehr and more in Eldurs direction:) If you want to laugh about an army, take the Bundeswehr... I've been told by someone who was part of the KFOR in Kosovo that they had to call the parliament and ask if they're allowed to return fire while being attacked in a real combat scenario. The parliament then had to debate over it and call them back in order to allow them defend themselves... They were able and allowed to defend themselves with all assets in place. Nobody had to radio back for instructions in case of self defense during both, land and boarding operations. But a great example how to spread fake News :thumbup: Edited February 16, 2019 by FSKRipper i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Sorry, I meant it especially for the Bundewehr :)Yep, German Luftwaffe didn't drop much ordnance during KFOR, so not much to comply with the ROEs. ;) Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Yep, German Luftwaffe didn't drop much ordnance during KFOR, so not much to comply with the ROEs. ;) Found it: i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Found it: Yep, classic self defense... ;) I remember, as well, the extraction of civilians from the airport of Tirana. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSKRipper Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Yep, classic self defense... ;) I remember, as well, the extraction of civilians from the airport of Tirana. Good point. Remember this one also. Wasn't funnier from the sea side and seems to be half a life ago... i9 9900K @ 5,0GHz | 1080GTX | 32GB RAM | 256GB, 512GB & 1TB Samsung SSDs | TIR5 w/ Track Clip | Virpil T-50 Stick with extension + Warthog Throttle | MFG Crosswind pedals | Gametrix 908 Jetseat [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Well, haven't been there, just heard exactly what I wrote from one who was. But it looks like a good example for how soldiers tend to "hero up" their stories. He was inside an armoured vehicle by the way, may be the case the firing they took wasn't really dangerous to them at all if it was just gunfire. Doesn't change anything that our troops are just there to hold the enemy back laughing at them until an actual army arrives. Just having in mind that less than 30% of our Eurofighters are in combat ready condition gives it all. The only good thing about all that is that we don't really need them at all at the moment, but to quote a famous person here, "everything is subject to change" and that would end in us being crushed the very first in case things go south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Idea Hat Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 They were able and allowed to defend themselves with all assets in place. Nobody had to radio back for instructions in case of self defense during both, land and boarding operations. But a great example how to spread fake News :thumbup: No country that wanted to not be overthrown by an angry military would make combat actions reliant on debate by parliament. The closes I know of were restrictive ROEs during Vietnam, and even those boiled down to "if it shoots at you, shoot back." The exceptions to that rule were the Haiphong and Hanoi zones, and that was just a simple "do not attack anything here for any reason." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 No country that wanted to not be overthrown by an angry military would make combat actions reliant on debate by parliament. The closes I know of were restrictive ROEs during Vietnam, and even those boiled down to "if it shoots at you, shoot back." The exceptions to that rule were the Haiphong and Hanoi zones, and that was just a simple "do not attack anything here for any reason."Unfortunately, this changed with the availability of direct video feeds from overhead drones to the brass and their homies, taking away decisions from the field commander based on a "look through the straw" by a General in warmth and comfort of a headquarter 1,000 miles away from the actual scene, with no detailed knowledge about the ground situation. Whatever the reason they want to have the "final call", the basic principles of warfare demand that command decisions on an operational and tactical level are made by someone on scene... watching a video footage does not qualify as "on scene". Headquarters makes strategic decisions and give tactical guidelines and goals. In fact during the Balkans conflict there were several nations involving politicians (usually defense ministry or similar) in critical decisions and approvals, as it was a non-sanctioned UN-peace keeping mission, with no backing by international law. De facto the two conflict parties need to ask for a peace keeping mission to make it legit. The Balkans were a first in history and many countries involved in the UN-mission were very careful, to an extent that nullified the military effort. That changed with the NATO mission, but still the ROE were pretty restrictive compared to Vietnam. Germany for example discouraged "self defense" unless absolutely necessary to prevent loss of lifes... and yes, that was very "controversial" especially in the Bundeswehr. ;) Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlikwin Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 121 pages in and this thread still delivers! New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1) Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarHawk72 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 121 pages in and this thread still delivers! The F-14 will be released at 200 pages....or two weeks, whichever comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mking Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Any news from the test ? Greets System Hydro H115i with 8700k @ 4,9 ghz all cores, Asus strix Z370 f, 32gb ddr4 3600Mhz, Asusrog swift 34 gsync ,Vr hp Reverb .Palit gaming pro 2080 ti Thrustmaster Warthog f18grip and th pedal Steamvr ss 100% and dcs world ss 180% tomcat eats the viper for breakfast :P Lange lebe die Tomcat": Long live the Cat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger22 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Any news from the test ? Greets Hmm, somehow I either feel a "soon" or "very close" coming along to answer your question! :thumbup: "I'm just a dude, playing a dude, disguised as another dude." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flia Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 No news = bad news :) PC: i7 9700K, 32 GB RAM, RTX 2080 SUPER, Tir 5, Hotas Warthog Throttle, VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base with VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Grip, VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV. Modules : NEVADA, F-5E, M-2000C, BF-109K4, A-10C, FC3, P-51D, MIG-21BIS, MI-8MTV2, F-86F, FW-190D9, UH-1H, L-39, MIG-15BIS, AJS37, SPITFIRE-MKIX, AV8BNA, PERSIAN GULF, F/A-18C HORNET, YAK-52, KA-50, F-14,SA342, C-101, F-16, JF-17, Supercarrier,I-16,MIG-19P, P-47D,A-10C_II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavehopper Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 It’s getting desperate now. I’ve had to glue wings to my pet cat and fly him around the room. He’s not happy about it. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC9G7AVfi68SovXCTCH-7fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortalkombat Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Any news from the test ? Greets Cobra's post was just a polite way of telling us that they wouldn't announce the release date last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead0331 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) Any news from the test ? Greets At this point, saying they are very close to announcing a "release date" is ridiculous. Comments like that are just more irritating than anything else at this stage. I mean, we know it'll release on or before 3/20, which is 4 weeks away. At this point, nobody is waiting for a date. We are waiting for a release, period. "We're really close to announcing a date on which we will announce a date that we are going to reveal the release date." Ha! No thanks. Just release the stupid thing already, or don't...but stop dicking around. Edited February 18, 2019 by Jarhead0331 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanXP311 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 At this point, saying they are very close to announcing a "release date" is ridiculous. Comments like that are just more irritating than anything else at this stage. I mean, we know it'll release on or before 3/20, which is 4 weeks away. At this point, nobody is waiting for a date. We are waiting for a release, period. "We're really close to announcing a date on which we will announce a date that we are going to reveal the release date." Ha! No thanks. Just release the stupid thing already, or don't...but stop dicking around. I'd rather delay it by one week or more, rather than having a buggy product, I don't care how long it takes, as long as its good. Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing. Any landing where the plane will fly again is a GREAT landing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead0331 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I'd rather delay it by one week or more, rather than having a buggy product, I don't care how long it takes, as long as its good. Yeah, fine...that's not the point I'm making though. I'm just saying that these tiny little meaningless updates from Heatblur about being really close to announcing more dates at this point is silly and quite frankly, a bit antagonizing. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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