Valve Index - new HMD in May

[valrond]

That Index upgrade for those of us with HTC looks like a decent deal. Just get the HMD and keep the stations and controllers, and you slash the price in half. We'll see how much better we can see the instruments with the Index, and if the extra pixels are too much of a toll for our systems.

[dburne]

So I wonder if I just got the Index base stations and HMD, could I just use my original Rift CV1 Touch Controllers with it and forego the Index controllers?

[valrond]

So I wonder if I just got the Index base stations and HMD, could I just use my original Rift CV1 Touch Controllers with it and forego the Index controllers?

 

 

I don't think so, it says that it is compatible with HTC Vive and Vive pro, not Rift.

[nrosko]

yeah unfortunately it won't work with the touch.

Its whether to go for the index or reverb for me. Too bad the index wasn't 2k that would of been perfect. But if you use standard fov PPD of the index will be similar to the vive pro but with n more subpixels better sde.

 

Gives you the option of fov & refresh rate that is pretty cool.

Headset is a reasonable price but the base stations & controls are way too costly.

[dburne]

OK thanks guys, if I get an Index will plan on getting the controllers with it.

 

I will likely wait till I get my Rift S and see how I like it first.

[nessuno0505]

So now going backwards with refresh rate is a positive? LOL! Palmer Lucky said in testing 90 Hz was the minimum for a good VR experience. The Rift S is a joke.

 

I also agree with your assessment of the RiftS.

 

I assume 90% of the people won't notice any significant difference between 80, 90 or 120 Hz. In the old times of CRT, people said that over 25 Hz the human eye could not perceive difference. Now we are dealing about 80-90 Hz (no difference, not even mathematically), 120, 144Hz. Now we have monitors at 240Hz. This is marketing only. Professional game players will say the new 360 Hz panel has made them win the competition, but that's not true, this worths only to sell new monitors.

 

P.S. Luckey said a lot of nonsense also about IPD: try to move your IPD slider in CV1: no significant difference perceived moving from max to min. Everyone can do this easy test.

Edited May 1, 2019 by nessuno0505

[nrosko]

I assume 90% of the people won't notice any significant difference between 80, 90 or 120 Hz. In the old times of CRT, people said that over 25 Hz the human eye could not perceive difference. Now we are dealing about 80-90 Hz (no difference, not even mathematically), 120, 144Hz. Now we have monitors at 240Hz. This is marketing only. Professional game players will say the new 360 Hz panel has made them win the competition, but that's not true, this worths only to sell new monitors.

 

P.S. Luckey said a lot of nonsense also about IPD: try to move your IPD slider in CV1: no significant difference perceived moving from max to min. Everyone can do this easy test.

 

what you can't see a significant difference moving the IPD. The difference is huge.

[Strong05]

I assume 90% of the people won't notice any significant difference between 80, 90 or 120 Hz. In the old times of CRT, people said that over 25 Hz the human eye could not perceive difference. Now we are dealing about 80-90 Hz (no difference, not even mathematically), 120, 144Hz. Now we have monitors at 240Hz. This is marketing only. Professional game players will say the new 360 Hz panel has made them win the competition, but that's not true, this worths only to sell new monitors.

 

P.S. Luckey said a lot of nonsense also about IPD: try to move your IPD slider in CV1: no significant difference perceived moving from max to min. Everyone can do this easy test.

 

There is definitely a difference when you move the IPD slider. Although it's not what you think, it just helps your pupils line up with the sweet spot better.

[nessuno0505]

I'm sorry but I do not perceive any. Maybe it can be a good test to verify if you can have issues with a software ipd adjustment.

[nrosko]

I pre ordered an index. Hope we get some useful reviews.

[Axion]

Not available in Canada.

[Revelation]

I preordered the Valve Index; it also looks like it is now out of stock in the US. You can only "reserve" one now.

[nrosko]

still available in EU but be quick.

[Callsign.Vega]

I snagged the Index controllers to replace the crappy Vive Pro controllers. I already have the 2.0 lighthouses from my Vive Pro kit. HMD will be the superior Reverb.

[wormeaten]

It is an already better option than Pimax5K+ which is almost just HMD same price as full packages Index.

No way as I could buy Pimax5K+ now as I was always talking it is too expensive for what is given as low quality no name product. Previous Pimax reputation is bad and nothing changes much in better support except they rise the price to the sky and they are not flexible to adopt price to the market request. Pimax in the long term has no future.

[Supmua]

Valve Index - new HMD in May

 

Secured one also (headset + controllers). I thought the controller would sell out faster than the headset, but I guess due to the price point it turned out the opposite.

[nessuno0505]

I snagged the Index controllers to replace the crappy Vive Pro controllers. I already have the 2.0 lighthouses from my Vive Pro kit. HMD will be the superior Reverb.

 

Isn't the reverb a wmr device? How can you use It with steam / vive lighthouses and index controllers? Index and vive / vive pro are cross compatible but I do not think wmr headsets are. Am I wrong?

[Tinkickef]

Isn't the reverb a wmr device? How can you use It with steam / vive lighthouses and index controllers? Index and vive / vive pro are cross compatible but I do not think wmr headsets are. Am I wrong?

 

 

Unless Vega knows something we don't, you are not wrong. The headset will not talk to the lighthouses and the lighthouses will not talk to the headset.

The lighthouses may (I simply do not know) talk to the controllers and track those, but I don't know how they will display through the Reverb, since it is WMR and the lighthouses are steam VR.

Rift tracked the touch controllers through the cameras, but button presses were registered via wireless connection with the headset itself.

Is this the same with Index?

 

Is steam VR compatible with WMR?

 

 

Too many unknowns to try make a mix and match system.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tinkickef

[mdee]

It is an already better option than Pimax5K+ which is almost just HMD same price as full packages Index.

No way as I could buy Pimax5K+ now as I was always talking it is too expensive for what is given as low quality no name product. Previous Pimax reputation is bad and nothing changes much in better support except they rise the price to the sky and they are not flexible to adopt price to the market request. Pimax in the long term has no future.

 

Pimax will be dead in a couple of months if they don't do something radical - 1.5 headsets coming out this month from reputable companies with great software support are on par or better. I am not sure why people bought it in first place, I guess it's thirst for better clarity in VR, but resolution is only one of many factors.

 

I am holding off for a month of two with Index - initial reports say it suffers from god rays quite a lot, so I'll have to try one in person before I buy it. On paper it sounds great for DCS and other sims.

[mhe]

Even if you'd order it today, you'd be holding off - earliest shipment except for those lucky few who got a pre-order in yesterday (within less than half an hour of opening) will have to wait for the end of August anyway.

[Johnny Dioxin]

I don't know why people are dissing Oculus and saying things such as they are not interested in furthering PCVR - didn't you guys see the interview recently?

 

They want to concentrate on getting more poeple into VR before they start pushing out higher spec headsets, because 1) it's not financially viable with the numbers they would sell and 2) current consumer hardware would have a hard time achieving acceptable performance with it.

 

I don't see why it's so hard to understand - they have confirmed Rift 2 for PC will be coming from Oculus - just not yet.

 

I don't have a problem with that - Rift S will do for now - patience, Grasshopper!

[71st_Mastiff]

I don't know why people are dissing Oculus and saying things such as they are not interested in furthering PCVR - didn't you guys see the interview recently?

 

They want to concentrate on getting more poeple into VR before they start pushing out higher spec headsets, because 1) it's not financially viable with the numbers they would sell and 2) current consumer hardware would have a hard time achieving acceptable performance with it.

 

I don't see why it's so hard to understand - they have confirmed Rift 2 for PC will be coming from Oculus - just not yet.

 

I don't have a problem with that - Rift S will do for now - patience, Grasshopper!

 

well I don't play the games they are pushing those low end VR's out for the other low end users.

[Gruman]

I don't know why people are defending Oculus and mention this interview... Its a poor excuse for 3 years of development.

Facebook / Oculus decided to go for the big marked, yes. Why should we be happy about that?

 

Even the quest has a higher resolution screen than the Rift S... Why? Audio is a downgrade, tracking is worse, its heavier and yep, no hardware IPD Adjustment (can be a problem for some "minority").

 

It's visually an incremental update, a downgrade in other areas.

 

Great for new VR Users but not a reason to swap a Rift for a Rift-S IMHO.

[dburne]

I don't know why people are defending Oculus and mention this interview... Its a poor excuse for 3 years of development.

Facebook / Oculus decided to go for the big marked, yes. Why should we be happy about that?

 

Even the quest has a higher resolution screen than the Rift S... Why? Audio is a downgrade, tracking is worse, its heavier and yep, no hardware IPD Adjustment (can be a problem for some "minority").

 

It's visually an incremental update, a downgrade in other areas.

 

Great for new VR Users but not a reason to swap a Rift for a Rift-S IMHO.

 

I expect they did this Rift S to appease the CV1 users who were demanding a new headset sooner rather than later.

Hence why they partnered with Lenovo, likely Oculus supplied the controllers and Lenovo did the headset.

 

Personally I think they would have done much better if Oculus had put the time in to do their own headset and made it a true upgrade, similar in specs to what Valve did with the Index. They have their eyes on a different market though for now.

[Rosebud47]

Unless Vega knows something we don't, you are not wrong. The headset will not talk to the lighthouses and the lighthouses will not talk to the headset.

The lighthouses may (I simply do not know) talk to the controllers and track those, but I don't know how they will display through the Reverb, since it is WMR and the lighthouses are steam VR.

Rift tracked the touch controllers through the cameras, but button presses were registered via wireless connection with the headset itself.

Is this the same with Index?

 

Is steam VR compatible with WMR?

 

 

Too many unknowns to try make a mix and match system.

 

First of all, none of the new VR Headsets is really bad, they are all better than the first generation of VR HMDs and sooner or later there will be even better HMDs maybe of new competitors.

 

The infrared tracking system technology of the original Oculus Rift seems to be no longer used in any of the new VR device. So there is only left Inside-out-tracking with front cameras and no additional external sensors ( new Oculus device and HP Reverb WMR ) or the Lighthousetracking system with external sensors ( Valve Index, Pimax ).

 

Beside these two tracking technologies, there are three platforms for the HMDs: Oculus, SteamVR and WMR ( WMR API is intergrated into Windows 10 OS ).

All WMR headsets are compatible with SteamVR and DCS through an additional SteamVR for Windows Mixed Reality App, which is for free and easy to handle, but combining the two different tracking technologies, lighthouse and inside-out-tracking, is generally not supported, as they work in different ways.

 

But there is a way to combine Lighthouse tracking technology for the Handcontrollers with the Inside-out-tracking technology for the headset, but it is not easy to setup.

You need to have the Lighthouse external sensors for tracking the handcontrollers in anyway. Then you need to run both APIs in parallel, which is generally not on purpose, but could be done. Then you need to align the localisation of the headset with the localisation of the handcontrollers through different tracking methods, which is the hardest thing.

This is really not recommandable in anyway.

 

For DCS you can´t do it wrong with any of the new Headsets.