F16 joystick/HOTAS discussion

[BuzzU]

The Warthog is definitely better. We just need a better throttle for the Viper. I'm not holding my breath for one considering how long the Hornet stick is taking.

[=Panther=]

So with low to no supply and high demand, now is a good time to be selling a HOTAS Cougar.

[Foxmike]

Any way you can provide a little more info on the lever mod here? I’ve long been interested in modding my Cougar to achieve better idle/AB detents but wouldn’t know where to start.

 

 

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OK, I try to explain, but it´s difficult to get the correct technical terms in English. It´s all improvised with DIY superstore and bicycle parts. The whole TQS body is fixed on one of my WheelStandPro bases, in the middle of the TQS side cover there is a simple bolt (for wooden doors...) fixed ( position of all parts improvised , just trial and error), the spring of that bolt keeps it downwards. I cut a kid-bicylce brake lever into parts and made a cable of some (trial and error) length, which is simply attached to the bolt by a green fence wire. If you pull the shortened brake lever, the bolt comes up. The detents are put on the base plate with instant adhesive, meanwhile I improved the metal stop for the AB detent with a bigger, ascending metal block. I fixed these detents (always trial and error) at a position, that you cant´t go to cutoff position without pulling the brake lever (cutoff release), but you can go over MIL to AB, by just kicking forward over that metal block. The resistance is much better than that small plastic noses which are integrated in the TQS by Thrustmaster.

 

 

Well, in XXX Sim it was possible to make the right settings, where the TQS throttle meets MIL and cutoff position, you even could make settings for hardware only cutoff position. I didn´t have seen that complexity for DCS settings, so I have to look, how the detents and positions are manageable with DCS Vipers. I hope that helps....

[RogueSqdn]

Thanks for the reply! I'll have to give something like that a try with my Obutto. How did you mount the brake lever (and the cable holder on the right) to the TQS body? Glue to the plastic surface?

 

I ask because mounting on a metal Cougar might require a different method. I'm thinking bolts run through and tightened down with nuts.

 

Lastly, what is the clamp that you attached the brake line to the green wire with?

 

 

 

EDIT: I wonder if this is enough to get this done. Need to figure out brake-to-wire attachment though.

Edited May 25, 2019 by RogueSqdn

[Kev2go]

Since ifly various aircraft, and not a single aircraft, i feel it would be unpractical to buy an exact replica of say a warthog, if i am flying an F/A18, and will also be purchasing the Viper., and still occasionally flying other aircaft including those from earlier eras.

 

becuase the F/A18 has a totally different HOTAS than the Warthog, Warthog stick is similar to the F16 stick, but contains totally different throttle.

 

So i figure i may as well buy a new 1 size fits all HOTAS that isnt a replica of an exact HOTAS.

 

 

I currently have X55 Hotas, no complaints, but i was thinking of upgraded to a X56 because its largely the same, but has additional functions like the TDC cursor on the front of the throttle ( similar to Hornet) as well as a 4 way switch on the Flight stick which could be mapped for Countermeasures functions if flying F16 or if piloting a a Hornet mapped asn A/A weapon selector.

 

 

Would X56 be recomended? X65F looks pretty similar too?

 

X56 seems to have mediocre ( 3 to 3 and half stars) reviews due to some people having supposed quality control issues, or wear issues, , but my X55 sorta had the same reviews, although mine still works fine.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Kev2go

[pimp]

Maybe TM will start selling Cougar parts again since the F-16 is being released by DCS. I need new gimbals for my stick but TM said they no longer support spare parts for the Cougar since it's a legacy product. My throttle still works though. Do I have to get the Realsimulator USB adapter or will any gameport to USB adapter work?

[IanHx2]

I Surely Thrustmaster still has the tooling and moulds to make a USB modern version of the TQS? The HOTAS Warthog stick is close enough.

 

My thoughts exactly. A standalone F-16 throttle quadrant sure would be nice for all those single engined SIM aircraft....

[Woody01]

Wow, I've got two sets of Cougars just sitting up in the garage roof, both still work, one has the Hall sensors and the other is my original with spare pots and spare internal brackets. What ever should I do! :D

I run the Warthog now and will stick with that, very happy with it, mind you I have never been disappointed with any of my Thrustmaster HOTAS's right from the very early FCS and Mk2 throttle, FLCS/TQS and Cougar, all have been awesome and very robust for me.

[RustBelt]

Maybe TM will start selling Cougar parts again since the F-16 is being released by DCS. I need new gimbals for my stick but TM said they no longer support spare parts for the Cougar since it's a legacy product. My throttle still works though. Do I have to get the Realsimulator USB adapter or will any gameport to USB adapter work?

 

If you still want to use the Cougar base and not the Warthog or one of the crazy cool "compatible" third party bases which all work with the cougar handle, you can check out this Shapeways based gimbal replacement. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195464

 

For just the Throttle you need the Realsimulator USB or you have to mod it to an MMJoy arduino based unit.

Edited May 26, 2019 by RustBelt

[some1]

Or just connect the throttle as usual to the base and shove the joystick base (without the grip) behind your PC.

[Foxmike]

Thanks for the reply! I'll have to give something like that a try with my Obutto. How did you mount the brake lever (and the cable holder on the right) to the TQS body? Glue to the plastic surface?

 

I ask because mounting on a metal Cougar might require a different method. I'm thinking bolts run through and tightened down with nuts.

 

Lastly, what is the clamp that you attached the brake line to the green wire with?

 

 

 

EDIT: I wonder if this is enough to get this done. Need to figure out brake-to-wire attachment though.

 

 

Ok, the parts I bought from Ebay Germany were 282153883077 (bolt) and 261570299112 (brake lever). The lever was cut as needed and all parts used as you can see in my pictures. The brake cable is connected to the fence wire with a simple metal inlay of a screw terminal (Lüsterklemme), the surrounding plastic was just cut away. A simple "Dübel" plastic plug/ anchor was shortened and put on the bolt, this is the connection to the fence wire. The bolt is fixed with 2 screws and nuts and all other plastic parts of the cut-into-pieces brake lever are hold by small, sharp screws drilled/fixed from the inside of the throttle side cover, in the pictures you can see the holes/tops of some screws, I cut the sharp tops off when I was satisfied with the exact position of all parts.

[Joe Lighty]

So with low to no supply and high demand, now is a good time to be selling a HOTAS Cougar.

 

That's what I thought... I have one "Open for Offer" (in Australia only at this stage) in the For Sale sub-folder:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=241757

[RogueSqdn]

F16 joystick/HOTAS discussion

 

Ok, the parts I bought from Ebay Germany were 282153883077 (bolt) and 261570299112 (brake lever). The lever was cut as needed and all parts used as you can see in my pictures. The brake cable is connected to the fence wire with a simple metal inlay of a screw terminal (Lüsterklemme), the surrounding plastic was just cut away. A simple "Dübel" plastic plug/ anchor was shortened and put on the bolt, this is the connection to the fence wire. The bolt is fixed with 2 screws and nuts and all other plastic parts of the cut-into-pieces brake lever are hold by small, sharp screws drilled/fixed from the inside of the throttle side cover, in the pictures you can see the holes/tops of some screws, I cut the sharp tops off when I was satisfied with the exact position of all parts.

 

 

 

I think I should be able to handle something like this then! Since the Cougar is metal I think I’d be best off using nuts and bolts though. Good thing i have a few throttles worth of spare parts in case (read: when) I screw up!

 

 

 

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[Foxmike]

I think I should be able to handle something like this then! Since the Cougar is metal I think I’d be best off using nuts and bolts though. Good thing i have a few throttles worth of spare parts in case (read: when) I screw up!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck!

[RogueSqdn]

Well, in XXX Sim it was possible to make the right settings, where the TQS throttle meets MIL and cutoff position, you even could make settings for hardware only cutoff position. I didn´t have seen that complexity for DCS settings, so I have to look, how the detents and positions are manageable with DCS Vipers. I hope that helps....

 

 

By the way, for that you can use either Joystick Gremlin or Autohotkey to output a keystroke (or vJoy button) when the throttle is at a certain point.

 

Here's a test script I was messing with before VPC fixed their axis-to-button settings in the latest firmware. You'd have to tweak it a bit more to put out your desired keystrokes, and to get buttons for engine start, but this code should get you started:

 

#Persistent
SetTimer, WatchAxis, 5
return

WatchAxis:
GetKeyState, 2JoyX, 2JoyX  ; Get position of X axis.
GetKeyState, 2JoyY, 2JoyY  ; Get position of Y axis.
KeyToHoldDownPrev = %KeyToHoldDown%  ; Prev now holds the key that was down before (if any).

if 2JoyX < 3
   KeyToHoldDown = x
else if 2JoyY < 3
   KeyToHoldDown = y
else
   KeyToHoldDown =



if KeyToHoldDown = %KeyToHoldDownPrev%  ; The correct key is already down (or no key is needed).
   return  ; Do nothing.

; Otherwise, release the previous key and press down the new key:
SetKeyDelay -1  ; Avoid delays between keystrokes.
if KeyToHoldDownPrev   ; There is a previous key to release.
   Send, {%KeyToHoldDownPrev% up}  ; Release it.
if KeyToHoldDown   ; There is a key to press down.
   Send, {%KeyToHoldDown% down}  ; Press it down.
return

Edited May 26, 2019 by RogueSqdn
typo

[Donut]

Hmmm, the more research I do, the more I like the CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle for the F-16. What are everyone's thoughts?

[RogueSqdn]

Hmmm, the more research I do, the more I like the CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle for the F-16. What are everyone's thoughts?

 

 

 

I used that setup for quite a while in Falcon 4. What you’re going to find is a lack of analog axes that can be frustrating. The antenna elevation and range knobs will have to be done with button presses and that may not be ideal for you.

 

Also since the hats do not press in, for speed brake off (middle position) and centering the dogfight switch, you will have to dedicate another hat position for those functions, which may or may not bother you. It bugged the hell out of me.

 

You also won’t have a paddle switch or dual-stage trigger.

 

 

 

All that said, it does function and feel well. The stick is VERY lightly tensioned, so I’d recommend using stiffer springs if there’s a mod out there. Depends on your personal preference.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Donut]

I used that setup for quite a while in Falcon 4. What you’re going to find is a lack of analog axes that can be frustrating. The antenna elevation and range knobs will have to be done with button presses and that may not be ideal for you.

 

Also since the hats do not press in, for speed brake off (middle position) and centering the dogfight switch, you will have to dedicate another hat position for those functions, which may or may not bother you. It bugged the hell out of me.

 

You also won’t have a paddle switch or dual-stage trigger.

 

 

 

All that said, it does function and feel well. The stick is VERY lightly tensioned, so I’d recommend using stiffer springs if there’s a mod out there. Depends on your personal preference.

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback and information! Good stuff!

 

I will consider all of this as I continue and try to decide between the CH stuff, Warthog, or X56. I am still heavily leaning towards the CH products though for the F-16.

[BuzzU]

I used to use CH but the jittery pots turned me off.

 

I like the Warthog much better.

[beppe_goodoldrebel]

I have the whole CH setup rudders included , I regret not buying the Warthog.

 

Dont get me wrong , for the money is a good setup , you can do all ( apart from 2 separate throttle axis ) but it has his age , for more precise flying like formation flying and AAR it's hard to use it.

[Donut]

I used to use CH but the jittery pots turned me off.

 

I like the Warthog much better.

 

I have read about the jittery pots as well, but the solution seems simple...solder the internal connections and/or make sure there is enough power at the USB port.

 

What about the Warthog do you like better?

 

I have the whole CH setup rudders included , I regret not buying the Warthog.

 

Dont get me wrong , for the money is a good setup , you can do all ( apart from 2 separate throttle axis ) but it has his age , for more precise flying like formation flying and AAR it's hard to use it.

 

I have read that the CH Pro throttle and Fighterstick are accurate enough...what about them specifically did you find was not accurate in regards to formation flying and AAR?

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

[BuzzU]

Besides the jittery pots and low resolution. The stick has play in the center. That drives me nuts. The spring for the stick is also too light for my taste.

 

They last a long time but you be dealing with those problems for a long time. They were ok 10 years ago when I used them. There are better choices now.

 

We're all different and you might love it.

[Top Jockey]

I used to use CH but the jittery pots turned me off.

 

I like the Warthog much better.

 

Hello,

 

By jittery pots, do you mean the random jumping movements on axis X and Y, without input from the user ?

[BuzzU]

I mean spiking. Typical of pots.

 

Like I said. It was ok 10 years ago.

[beppe_goodoldrebel]

I have read that the CH Pro throttle and Fighterstick are accurate enough...what about them specifically did you find was not accurate in regards to formation flying and AAR?

 

 

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

 

I have more problem with the throttle , low resolution means it's hard to find the perfect spot to maintain speed.

 

While in Falcon 4 I have no problem at all in DCS it's almost a nightmare when AAR.

For example , F14 it's very sensiive in the throttle management , motors are powerful , so finding the right speed is hard.