159th_Viper Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Isn't this exactly what you got with Falcon 4.0 and some people would swear by this sim as best of all? Also isn't FOPS going to have only 1 trainer in it as first release? I see ED is going in direction of creating very highly details aircraft/helicopters with all you could wish for... and 9 months for new aircraft is not that bad if you ask me because it will take good few months to master each and just when you get "tired of it" you can learn new aircraft... If you guys want AFM's, clickable cockpits, highly modeled systems, 6DoF as well as highly detailed 3D models of all ground models, I think this is the way to do it... and also may I ask why do we always need sim created following same patern with modeling of same aircraft etc... why not the Ka-50... why not something different to start with? Have to Agree :thumbup: Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch789 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I understand that BS starts only with the helicopter, too much work for each flyable aircraft. But 9 months later, why an A10 or Apache when everybody wants a MIG29, or Sukhoi or F16, 15... We will have to wait around 2 more years for a superiority aircraft with the details of Ka50? :( Greetings I REALLY HOPE E.D. MAINTAIN A RIGHT BALANCE INTO D.C.S. SERIES soon we'll have russian KA-50, so AH-64A will be welcomed. when we'll have A-10A, it should be necessary a revised version of SU-25. same thing for fighter... Although I LIKE BETTER RUSSIAN SU-33 AND NAVAL OPERATIONS, I think a right balance would be a good compromise. Fliyng a helo (or a fighter) reproducing • Highly-detailed six degrees of freedom cockpit • Unrivalled flight physics system • Realistic damage model and system cascade affect • Mouse-clickable cockpit • Detailed modeling and control of engine, fuel, hydraulics, electrical, navigation, radio, fire suppression, sensor, and weapon systems (casual game play modes also available) • Advanced weapon physics for missiles, rockets and cannon rounds including ricochets ... against another helo (or fighter) reproducing • Highly-detailed six degrees of freedom cockpit • Unrivalled flight physics system • Realistic damage model and system cascade affect • Mouse-clickable cockpit • Detailed modeling and control of engine, fuel, hydraulics, electrical, navigation, radio, fire suppression, sensor, and weapon systems (casual game play modes also available) • Advanced weapon physics for missiles, rockets and cannon rounds including ricochets ... WILL BE AN INDESCRIBABLE EXPERIENCE !!!!! E.D. PLEASE MAINTAIN A RIGHT BALANCE INTO D.C.S. SERIES ... AND DON'T FORGOT SU-33 AND NAVAL OPERATIONS, OF COURSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kula66 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Isn't this exactly what you got with Falcon 4.0 and some people would swear by this sim as best of all? Also isn't FOPS going to have only 1 trainer in it as first release? Kuky, I don't see anyone doing a campaign engine like Falcon 4 ... I seem to remember it bankrupted the developers! In some ways I'm quite bouyed by EDs announcement - as you say, it will give us high levels of detail, but for me having to wait 9 months for each of Ka-50, AH-64, A-10, Su-25, Russian fighter1 and finally Western fighter, before I can play A2A again is very frustrating. Assuming 9 months slips to 1 year thats 5-6 YEARS away at the earliest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachAV8R Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 In all honesty. It took me darn near 9 months to come to grips with the avionics and weaponry of the Su-25T...and I still don't think I even came close to "mastering" it. If we are truly talking about add-ons that are going to go into detail that exceeds the -T...then I don't see the problem with having some breathing room between releases. Then again..I don't play sims (anymore anyway..hehe..) for 18 hours a day, 7 days a week...so perhaps my learning ability is suffering from some of my other hobbies.. ;) BeachAV8R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Groove Posted October 17, 2007 ED Team Share Posted October 17, 2007 Beach8VR your work is the best sim out there. Awesome video details, realistic weather and stuff like that. Pitty there is no recovery button though ;). Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avimimus Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 A-10 is jet! The reality is that they have AFM data for the a-10 (it was originally going to be the first airplane with an AFM). They want to release a western counterpart to the Kamov (so they are making the Apache). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachAV8R Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Beach8VR your work is the best sim out there. Awesome video details, realistic weather and stuff like that. Pitty there is no recovery button though ;). I have to admit it's nice to not have to build a new system every time I go out flying...the frame-rates are always pretty smooth! :P BeachAV8R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 ...the frame-rates are always pretty smooth! :P Although I'm willing to bet that they drop into single-figures everytime you hit a bit of Turbulence....or is that your Heart-Rate :P Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfsierra2 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Perhaps you can affect which aircraft will be produced after the three that have been announced so far, sure. :) I don't think that anything we post here will have a real impact on ED's plans. If it was so, we wouldn't have seen SF copy protection and BS beeing released as new stand-alone product, leaving many fans behind puzzled and somewhat disappointed after all the statements about BS beeing compatible to Lock-On. Instead we find ourselves confronted with the choice of flying a combat helo without any flyable jets included in this new sim (yet) and depending on/ hoping for at least a patch 1.13 for adding all the developed goodies and bug-fixes that we expected to get with BS as it was announced until last week..... I have very mixed feelings about how this developed. :( kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
000BIGMAC000 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I realize that nothing I can say has any remote effect on ED, but it feels better to share my bewilderment with how ED has decided to continue...If there are others here like me, which there must be hence all the controversy over BS, here's what I foresee: The Lockon series of players all bought Lockon or FC, because they love JETS. There are fans out there who love both helo and Jet alike. Then there are guys like me who don't care to ever use a helo in a sim EVER, but respect those who do. And finally there are guys who vehemently hate choppers. My feeling is that BS won't initially make the sales hoped for until there are viable JETS (plural) in the sim. Plain and simple. Waiting YEARS for a single new fighter addon to a stand alone module is almost asinine in my view. Think of it. If BS is actually available the start of JAN 08, the soonest we would have a new module according to the FAQ is roughly sept. (9 months away). If that module is the Apache, that still doesn't satisfy any of the fast movers. And if the A-10 is the first jet, your looking at sometime in 2010 before the FIRST fighter is made flyable (Barring the option that ED decides to distribute some "lesser known, produced in small numbers" jet). Undoubtedly there will also be delays just as with BS. As for me, I'm not holding my breath for anything. I want to see just how popular BS becomes. I'll be playing FC and waiting for FO and the next from LP. Hopefully someone in Sales over at ED sees the light and decides to release a few jets at a time as the very next module. :cry: Here's hoping! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt40Five Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I don't really count the A-10 as a fighter...I mean I know technically it's classed as a fighter, and I love it for what it is but it is a dedicated CAS aircraft. When I think fighter I think fast and pointy...and it will be years before ED gets to anything like that if their current announced agenda goes forward as planned (I know when has it ever...). Anyone who is waiting on a modern fast mover sim should be hoping other devs get their projects out sometime sooner than EDs timetable. Until then it's FC or F4... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue_blade Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Kuky, I don't see anyone doing a campaign engine like Falcon 4 ... I seem to remember it bankrupted the developers! In some ways I'm quite bouyed by EDs announcement - as you say, it will give us high levels of detail, but for me having to wait 9 months for each of Ka-50, AH-64, A-10, Su-25, Russian fighter1 and finally Western fighter, before I can play A2A again is very frustrating. Assuming 9 months slips to 1 year thats 5-6 YEARS away at the earliest! basically to play a2a simulations we can no longer count on ED/lockon in the 'near' future [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 well true rogue_blade... but I just see it that we still have LOFC to begin with and this sim is not that bad anyway... if ED really decide and bring out last patch and squash all (or most anoying) bugs we still have decent sim to play with untill next generation sim (with fighter aircraft) is out. Sure by this plan we won't see fighter aircraft for 2-3 years, I agree, and I would also love to have them sooner or later, but I don't believe it is realistic for us to demand really high quality product with few jets in it in shot period of time. FOPS won't be out for at least 1-2 years and even if it des come out in 2 years it will still have only trainer to fly in. I just think flying a chopper is not that bad at all... you don't get the high speed flying and air combat but Ka-50 on its own it'll be more challenging then what we have now... hell many people don't even know how to use systems/weapons of the Su-25T and FC has been out for some time already. Helicopter is something different (a breath of fresh air maybe?), a high quality simulated one... surely it would be better for us to have things sooner and more rather then later and less but if ED already got the base code down solid and good, it'll be much easier to just add new modules/aircraft. I guess I'm just trying to say I can live with it... I'll gladly fly something different... the graphics is still pretty good, if not still the best graphic in any sim to date... still we have nothing solid comming from FOPS so we can't really tell what that sim will actually look like... but things are getting done now to nice high level of simulation, graphics and 3D models are really good... systems/avianocs/FM etc are also top notch... that's pretty much what we're all (well most of as actually) are asking for. I understand it takes time to develop something really good, and there is a saying: "you can't rush art" :D 1 No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt40Five Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 How is the A-10 a fighter? Well I know A-10 drivers call themselves "fighter pilots"....and lots of the pointy nose guys probably disagree with them...All I was trying to say is that while I love the A-10...it can't give me my turn and burn fix...unless it's on fire and spinning...:doh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue_blade Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well I know A-10 drivers call themselves "fighter pilots"....and lots of the pointy nose guys probably disagree with them...All I was trying to say is that while I love the A-10...it can't give me my turn and burn fix...unless it's on fire and spinning...:doh: agreed. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikus Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 I hope every 9 months update, give us 2 planes developed, because if we pay one by one, how much will cost the sim? and what is more important, when we will have a MIG29 or Su27,33, ...? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I fail to understand why people accept that LO is dead after the Announcement became a fact. Do you enjoy flying it now? If yes, what stops you to continue enjoying it until something new in the fighter area appears on the horizon? There were 80+ signups for RF5 with server limit of 60-70, BSS also have full house every month, the virtual aerobatic teams tournament is comming, the 3rd Fortis Dogfight Cup is comming... And some people behave like we've buried LO already. Heads up people, this sim aint dead yet. Hell there are even people that still fly Flanker 2.5 for sakes! "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_Man Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well the fact is this - ED is focused elsewhere now and not on jets. If you don't like the idea of fly helos (like myself) just don't buy Black Shark. I will stay with FC and if they decide to contunie support - great, if not - I have all intentions to support the 3rd party mod makers that should start charging for their work at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfsierra2 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 . Hopefully someone in Sales over at ED sees the light and decides to release a few jets at a time as the very next module. :cry: Here's hoping! I fully agree with you, however I don't see that there will be some additional DCS module=Jets available in the near future. Taken into consideration the time it has taken for developing BS (which isn't even released yet...), we likely will see the A-10 in Summer 2008, the next one in early 2009 and so on. So if we expect to fly a Su-27 or F-15 again using the DCS-engine, it will be 2009+ at best. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereminqblank Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 But I would imagine a lot of the technology that has been used for BS would be usable for fixed wing modules. 6DOF, clickable pits, models... Remember, the key to good programming is re-usability!!! "Unholy Roller" [sIGPIC]http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/images/userbars/A-10C_UserBar_01.gif[/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfsierra2 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Well the fact is this - ED is focused elsewhere now and not on jets. If you don't like the idea of fly helos (like myself) just don't buy Black Shark. I will stay with FC and if they decide to contunie support - great, if not - I have all intentions to support the 3rd party mod makers that should start charging for their work at that time. ED is a Russian company, which naturally focusses on their national market, at least focussing on the GUS, and if the folks over there want a combat helo, they will get it - as we see. USA/Europe market is second level only, and not that important. kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfsierra2 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 But I would imagine a lot of the technology that has been used for BS would be usable for fixed wing modules. 6DOF, clickable pits, models... Remember, the key to good programming is re-usability!!! Well, even this aspect has it's limitations. Think of the fact, that even between Lock-On and FC, there was no compability,and even a different patch status disabled online-missions between players. That much to re-usability. It will be interesting to see, how BS and follow-on modules will behave regarding patches/bug-fixes. Once the DCS series is started, there is a need for keeping follow-on modules compatible downwards, even after patches for product improvement will be released. And, there will be patches released - I promise ! kind regards, Raven.... [sigpic]http://www.crc-mindreader.de/CRT/images/Birds2011.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikus Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 I fail to understand why people accept that LO is dead after the Announcement became a fact. Do you enjoy flying it now? If yes, what stops you to continue enjoying it until something new in the fighter area appears on the horizon? LO is not dead, but what we want is a MIG29 or Sukhoi with the level of detail of KA50, and that, LO can´t give us. Greetings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boneski Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 More then Enough! The Announced development concept was a long time coming... This is a great Idea. You have to look at the DCS as an operating system. People are concerned that it will take 9 months to make new add-ons. That is a pretty quick dev cycle. But instead of all this BS doom and gloom... you have to be more forward thinking then that. Think Parallel vs. Serial development More then likely 3rd party developers will help build stuff as add-on to this product. Meaning more then one product will come out at a time. For example, back in the Falcon 4 days ED was asked to build a Red Air Add-on... More then likely you will have too many add-ons... much like Flight Sim.. Meaning that without some sort of control excreted by ED you will have Company X's MiG 29 Add-on vs. Company Y's vs. Company Z's... Which one will you get? Camp One will support Company Z's MiG 29 add-on due to the fact that they model the latest DESA upgrades while Camp Two will think Company X has the best MiG 29 add on because it has the UB two seat version taking advantage of the Front Seat, Back Seat Code and has a better 3D Model. The future will give you more then enough Jet add ons. So don't despair! Multiplayer and version control will be interesting! -Bones My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S77th-GOYA Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I would bet against any 3rd party devs for DCS. And I've never seen one scrap of information that would support that ED is even considering that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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