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F-16 MFD Readability


USA_Recon

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Reverb and MFD in F-16

 

Same issue. I'm using an HP Reverb. The words for the MFD buttons are bright and readable but the contacts and artificial horizon are super dim. I can't use the targeting pod either - way too dim. All I see is the reflection.

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Same issue. I'm using an HP Reverb. The words for the MFD buttons are bright and readable but the contacts and artificial horizon are super dim. I can't use the targeting pod either - way too dim. All I see is the reflection.

 

Agreed - really looking forward to a Mod to address these exact issues. Also while the MFD font may be 'realistic' - I find it not that great in the Rift S so hoping for a change there too. Happy to forego 100% accuracy in the name of usability, which isn't for everyone so happy to wait for mods.

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Not being argumentative but I have a reverb as well and have ZERO issues reading the MFD's in VR... any chance it could be some of your settings.... I fly with a group of us that have reverbs and have no issues reading the things...

 

So before we jump on this entire ED bad.... fix problem... (granted they do have some things to sort and fix).. .perhaps look into your settings some more?

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So before we jump on this entire ED bad.... fix problem... (granted they do have some things to sort and fix).. .perhaps look into your settings some more?

 

This issue is really not one to argue over. Apparently the MFD’s are readable for some but if you look across threads it is an issue for a lot of people and not just VR folks. It needs to be addressed, I basically ignore my MFD’s because I can’t read them.

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This issue is really not one to argue over. Apparently the MFD’s are readable for some but if you look across threads it is an issue for a lot of people and not just VR folks. It needs to be addressed, I basically ignore my MFD’s because I can’t read them.

 

Well... I can read mine? So did I get the module that MFD's work in and you get short changed??

 

Who knows...

 

Seriously though... What specs do people have that have issues... what are their settings in game and out... Whats the computer specs... How is WMR setup ? How are their steam settings Is windows optimized?.. etc... etc... All I am getting at is there are plenty of us out there that are not having these issues... So whats the common ground>?


Edited by Smoked
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Well... I can read mine? So did I get the module that MFD's work in and you get short changed??

 

Who knows...

 

Seriously though... What specs do people have that have issues... what are their settings in game and out... Whats the computer specs... How is WMR setup ? How are their steam settings Is windows optimized?.. etc... etc... All I am getting at is there are plenty of us out there that are not having these issues... So whats the common ground>?

 

Mate, seriously? You have the VR HMD with pretty much the highest resolution available on a commercial headset...just accept the fact that maybe others with different headsets with lower res are having difficulty reading the MFD's etc. Nothing to do with in-game settings....or what 'version' of MFD they got.

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You want to read instruments in VR the reverb is what you are going to need (perhaps a rift s?? never tried that one)... its across the board that way and not just in the Viper... its the nature of the beast... ED "fixing" an issue that is handicapped on what "lower res" headsets can actually push goes back to my point... whats the common ground? CV1 rift I could not read crap in the Harrier... Reverb I can... whos fault is that?

 

Not trying to be argumentative... just wonder what the common ground is.. Go look up any post in relation to VR verses flat screen and you will see the same answers... in most VR headsets you give up clarity both near and for for the immersion and depth perception factor.. Yes the Reverb fixed a lot of that because it is pushing smaller pixels that is able to render that into an image that you can see "better"... no difference then a 720p vs 4k... more pixels... clearer image.. better graphics...


Edited by Smoked
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I don't have such a big issue with readability, especially since I removed the pilot reflections. The displays are just 4"x4" and located above the pilot's knees, with the pilot sitting at a 30° incline, so his viewpoint is quite back. Try to replicate this by sitting like the pilot does and place your phone above your knee and you'll get an idea.

 

The display is small and it has to fit a lot of information in that space, so the symbols have to be small as well. As an example, making the FCR targets appear as big blocks would create (even more) issues with being able to accurately display the full radar scope, while keeping individual targets visually apart on the display. And you can't have different OSB labels take up 50% of the display space.

 

That's probably how it is for the real pilot as well, so it's part of the experience.

 

 

The brightness is another issue, I fully agree that they should be brighter. There's a lot of IRL footage that supports that.

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You want to read instruments in VR the reverb is what you are going to need (perhaps a rift s?? never tried that one)... its across the board that way and not just in the Viper... its the nature of the beast... ED "fixing" an issue that is handicapped on what "lower res" headsets can actually push goes back to my point... whats the common ground? CV1 rift I could not read crap in the Harrier... Reverb I can... whos fault is that?

 

Not trying to be argumentative... just wonder what the common ground is.. Go look up any post in relation to VR verses flat screen and you will see the same answers... in most VR headsets you give up clarity both near and for for the immersion and depth perception factor.. Yes the Reverb fixed a lot of that because it is pushing smaller pixels that is able to render that into an image that you can see "better"... no difference then a 720p vs 4k... more pixels... clearer image.. better graphics...

 

You nailed it though - and I experience the same. I went from an Oculus Rift CV1 to a Samsung Odyssey+, and landed on an HP Reverb, which is superior in clarity to those HMDs I've owened thus far.

 

With that in mind, I have no issue with readability in the Viper, either.

 

In fact, my go-to for VR readability testing is flying the Christen Eagle II from the backseat, and if I can read the speed gauge decently well (which is not that close to the pilot as you might be aware of) I know that I am pretty much set for most of the DCS modules I own in terms of being able to read the most important instruments.

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The brightness is another issue, I fully agree that they should be brighter. There's a lot of IRL footage that supports that.

 

Agreed... I can read mine, but brighter would be better...

 

 

MFD being "unreadable"... Nope... not buying it especially when myself and many others have no problem doing so...

 

People in VR with earlier gen head sets are going to struggle... Its across the board that way in ALL modules... not just the viper...

 

Like I said.. before we bash ED, lets look at what "we" are creating problem wise with the gear and settings that we are running..


Edited by Smoked
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Smoked - if you have no issues - fine - we got it - lean back and relax ;)

The displays are definatelay way too low in brightness compared to all other modules - might be self-fixing when we get the full brightness/contrast functionality. Especially the blue colored items are barely visible. Compared to other modules the brightness looks like as if in night-mode setting more or less.


Edited by -Painter-

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Smoked - if you have no issues - fine - we got it - lean back and relax ;)

The displays are definatelay way too low in brightness compared to all other modules - might be self-fixing when we get the full brightness/contrast functionality. Especially the blue colored items are barely visible. Compared to other modules the brightness looks like as if in night-mode setting more or less.

 

 

Can definitely tell when exporting them to a monitor, blue is barely visible and the white is murky, don't have that issue with the other modules.



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To me it looks like a filter has been added to make the mfd look more authentic, almost like scan lines on a crt. I can see it clearly on my exported monitor, not so clear in the cockpit, result is that it makes the export look dull and hard to see. Im sure they will get around to sorting that soon.

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Smoked - if you have no issues - fine - we got it - lean back and relax ;)

The displays are definatelay way too low in brightness compared to all other modules - might be self-fixing when we get the full brightness/contrast functionality. Especially the blue colored items are barely visible. Compared to other modules the brightness looks like as if in night-mode setting more or less.

 

Completely chilled....

 

Could the MFD's be brighter? Yep.. no harm in that..

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Completely chilled....

 

Could the MFD's be brighter? Yep.. no harm in that..

 

The mfd's text and HSI circles and lines must be brighter or white for better SA

 

during Datalink and link16 in near future many symbols will appear in MFD's these must be bright and well noticeable ......

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I think at least some of the varying opinions in this thread may/could stem from seat position and probably in-game IPD people are using. It's not always fair that just because you do or don't have a problem that others do or don't.

 

 

For me, in the default seating position, MFD text was definitely clearer (but not necessarily easy to read) for me in a CV1 at 1.3 PD. As I've moved backwards in-game and reclined my real chair to match what I believe to be a more accurate position based on the seatback, I'm at a point where I'm not really able to make out text too well anymore. Adding 2x AA at the same PD brought a little clarity back though. YMMV

 

 

 

Even though I'm planning to upgrade my HMD and PC, I'm still hoping text clarity could be cleaned up a little. Brightness is most definitely an issue I think we can all agree upon.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The readability since the last patch is no better. The blue lines are too dim.

 

 

 

The original looks better

f527239c9885d1d9850c42e1b5733025.jpg

 

 

2a288c93e15460af3cbf55044d7ec4af.jpg

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For me in VR (HP Reverb) Hornet's MFDs (DDI) are perfectly readable and crisp. Tomcat's and Harrier's also.

F-16's MFDs are very hard to read without leaning/zooming at identical settings.

In Hornet DDI I can clearly see every digit and every font.

In F-16 I can't even read upper and lower radar scan altitude reliably.

 

The strangest is not the poor readability of F-16 MFD itself but the big difference between Hornet and Viper in this regard. Both being developed by ED.


Edited by bies
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I think at least some of the varying opinions in this thread may/could stem from seat position and probably in-game IPD people are using. It's not always fair that just because you do or don't have a problem that others do or don't.

 

 

For me, in the default seating position, MFD text was definitely clearer (but not necessarily easy to read) for me in a CV1 at 1.3 PD. As I've moved backwards in-game and reclined my real chair to match what I believe to be a more accurate position based on the seatback, I'm at a point where I'm not really able to make out text too well anymore. Adding 2x AA at the same PD brought a little clarity back though. YMMV

 

 

 

Even though I'm planning to upgrade my HMD and PC, I'm still hoping text clarity could be cleaned up a little. Brightness is most definitely an issue I think we can all agree upon.

 

 

This is always a good suggestion but not effective in this case. I've flown DCS in VR for two years now beginning with the CV1, Pimax 5K+, S, Reverb and now the Index. I know every tweak there is to get an HMD to look as good as possible. The problem is not with the HMD though it effects some more than others. The Reverb, having the highest resolution natively shows the least impact. Then the S, then Index, followed by the Gen 1 units.

 

The difference is stark when you compare the Viper to any other modules MFD's. I've been obsessing over this for a couple weeks now, at least since either the Oct 10th or 31st updates. I can't pin down which. In these updates there were changes to the cockpit textures and canopy lighting effects. Since then, readability for me has gotten much worse on the MFD's. But other problems have crept up as well that also effects the MFD's. Namely the lighting in the pit and very bad aliasing. On release I was able to run my normal SteamVR settings that I was happy with in the Hornet, plus I was able to turn on MSAA to 2x without a frame hit. This was needed because the Viper has much more aliasing than the Hornet. Since those updates, I can't run those settings at all. I've had to back down on the SteamVR settings so low that MSAA @ 2x can't overcome the amount of aliasing.

 

These are two separate issues though. The second only enhancing the original problem. The MFD's do not look anything like the real Block 50CJ MFD's. That's just a fact. Even on the Reverb. There's no way the Air Force would accept the pilots having to lean in and squint to see the MFD's. I'm pretty sure the 16 was designed to keep the pilots head out of his crotch as much as possible :D

 

For the second issue, the lighting is jacked up. If you look at the screen shots below you'll see that the sun is on my nose and yet the bootwell is lit up like the sun is shinning directly in there. I don't think the black sheepskin seat covers are reflecting it.

 

 

 

F-16Lightingproblem2_zpsiggzznqm.pngF-16Lightingproblem3_zpszpc47dlx.png


Edited by Wicked.-

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In addition, i think the CMFD Range rings must be more "blue" more visible.

 

There are range rings? derpyconfused.png

 

Pretty much tells how "visible" they actually are... twi-notbad.png

 

The MFD's are rather small guys their 4x4.

 

Apples by oranges? rainbowdashwink.png


Edited by Eldur

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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@Wicked regarding ''there's no way they'd do this''

 

While I get what you're saying, and am not commenting on the MFDs, the assumption ''they would never do something like this'' couldn't be more wrong. The history of military aviation is literally FULL of examples of mistakes ranging from benignly stupid and un-user friendly to outright deadly. Even a cursory reading will turn up multiple examples. So, the idea something isn't possible just because it's stupid or poorly designed doesn't really work.

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@Wicked regarding ''there's no way they'd do this''

 

While I get what you're saying, and am not commenting on the MFDs, the assumption ''they would never do something like this'' couldn't be more wrong. The history of military aviation is literally FULL of examples of mistakes ranging from benignly stupid and un-user friendly to outright deadly. Even a cursory reading will turn up multiple examples. So, the idea something isn't possible just because it's stupid or poorly designed doesn't really work.

 

lol touché! Point taken. Check out these photos. They're the best ones I can find with decent resolution. Is this what you're seeing?

 

IMG_2064_zpsxzjyr4gz.jpg

 

IMG_2067_zpsvjip9uso.jpg

 

The second is from the Smithsonian.

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/298293175302237985/

https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/2001-1822hjpg

 

Instead of trying to zoom in just go to the actual links.

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