toilet2000 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 This lasts for a little bit though. Ok, not half a second, but the picture returns fairly quickly. In DCS, as long as there's smoke and fire, there's either a blob or the image is over saturated, even with auto gain/level enabled. The saturation is normal for fixed gain/level, but auto is supposed to adjust these automatically, in order to maintain the darkest and brightest parts within the visible scale (within reason, maybe it'll try to contain 90% of the range it sees, depending on the scene). I have FLIR cameras (not targeting pods, but FLIR is FLIR) at work and they work like that. Even then, the FLIR cameras found in current commercial products are definitely not the same as a FLIR imager from ~2005. It will generally washout because of the same limitation of any camera: "exposition" time. Sure, using dual-image techniques (think they call it HDR) can help, but even then... And that's something available in current day smartphones, not a FLIR pod from 2005. Even from the videos, you can see that this washout stays for quite a long time, suprisingly so, while the flash is almost instantly gone when viewing the CCD images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subferro Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Watch the videos again. In WHOT it flashes white on the explosion, then the residual washout is a black background against white smoke. In DCS, if you look at smoke when in WHOT, the whole screen goes white when it should be dark against white smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Even then, the FLIR cameras found in current commercial products are definitely not the same as a FLIR imager from ~2005. It will generally washout because of the same limitation of any camera: "exposition" time. Sure, using dual-image techniques (think they call it HDR) can help, but even then... And that's something available in current day smartphones, not a FLIR pod from 2005. The FLIR whiteout / blackout in DCS is NOT an intended effect, it is a shader bug likely introduced with deferred shading (2.5). It effects multiple modules A-10C, AV-8B, etc. and also depends on the smoke colour used i.e. for marking targets. It can make night missions impossible as, after the first explosion, the area can be impossible to view for several minutes (5 ?) and you may not even know the area is obscured as the FLIR image remains blank. A work around is to • set "Smoke chimney density" to 0 and restart DCS ... the FLIR bug can also "fix" itself temporally if running several consecutive missions in the same DCS session i.e. playing a replay file several times. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4082694#post4082694 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4082526#post4082526 Edited June 11, 2020 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarma Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Happen to me from time to time (chimney is set to 5). My hotfix : delete fxo and metashader2 folders in saved games\DCS and restart. To be sure it's fixed I launch the A10 quick mission and blow the first truck with a mav. Fix works 90% of the time. PS : using old nvidia drivers 442.74, don't know if it changes anything i9 9900k, 64 Go RAM, RTX 4090, Warthog HOTAS Throttle & Stick, Saitek Combat Rudder, MFD Cougar, Trackir 5 Pro, Multipurpose UFC and Oculus Rift S (when I want some VR), http://www.twitch.tv/zarma4074 / https://www.youtube.com/user/Zarma4074 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbies2003 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 It'd be normal for the image to get saturated for maybe half a second. Right now, the smoke looks like it's a huge and constant heat source, while this is not the case IRL. The sharp temperature difference between the momentary explosion and the surrounding environment is enough to saturate the sensor before it can adjust, but the subsequent smoke or fire is definitely not hot enough to do that. I flew on OB prior to today's patch but after the 10 June patch and besides seeing the DDI disappear when back lit by the sun I also saw this anomaly on the Mav F FLIR video. My buddy had a smoke marker at a base and any time I pointed the seeker at the smoke the ENTIRE page would turn completely white as if it was looking at a huge heat source. Moving the seeker away from the smoke would bring the video back to normal. This kind of issue was also seen but to a lesser extent if I was trying to target in the area of something that had just exploded. This wasn't an issue prior to the 10 June patch and no I'm not running mods. Made targetting vehicles a massive PITA though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harker Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I flew on OB prior to today's patch but after the 10 June patch and besides seeing the DDI disappear when back lit by the sun I also saw this anomaly on the Mav F FLIR video. My buddy had a smoke marker at a base and any time I pointed the seeker at the smoke the ENTIRE page would turn completely white as if it was looking at a huge heat source. Moving the seeker away from the smoke would bring the video back to normal. This kind of issue was also seen but to a lesser extent if I was trying to target in the area of something that had just exploded. This wasn't an issue prior to the 10 June patch and no I'm not running mods. Made targetting vehicles a massive PITA though.IIRC, it's an issue with some smoke markers only. Green is OK, but red has this problem, at least on my system. I just stopped using red markers on my missions, for now. Was your smoke marker red? The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord. F/A-18C, F-15E, AV-8B, F-16C, JF-17, A-10C/CII, M-2000C, F-14, AH-64D, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3 - i9-13900K, 64GB @6400MHz RAM, 4090 Strix OC, Samsung 990 Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 This still happens to me across all modules, regardless of clearing fxo/metashaders. In my situation it's the smoke. If I look away from the smoke the picture comes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subferro Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Yeah there is no definite way to keep this from happening. Clearing fxo/metashaders, turning chimney smoke off, those may get it to stop temporarily, but after a few runs of DCS it always comes back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RDN Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Hi everyone, This bug is more than a year old and considering ED's policy, we're going to have it for a long time to come... the only reaction after several reports of this bug is that they will wait to develop the new FLIR engine... and you know what?.... I'm ready to bet that the bug will always be there with the new FLIR engine... because it feels more like a smoke shaders problem than the FLIR engine itself... and since ED specializes in adding new features to buggy stuff, I think we're still "laughing" for a long time. Personally I think it's a shame... it's been reported for more than a year now, the community has done a lot of the work in determining which version the bug came from, that it's because of the smoke, that before 2.5.6 (or 2.5. 5) we could fix the bug by setting the chimney fumes to 0 but not anymore... we explain that it's still a bit "game breaking" when at night we can't target a zone anymore, but no we'll wait another year (or more when we know that the new FLIR engine is in low priority)... This means that we have to fly during the day to make sure we have the CCD image as backup in case the FLIR image is buggy. But nothing... nada... we'll wait to develop the new FLIR engine and we'll see... a shame! :mad::mad::mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padonis Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I have no solution, fxo / metashaders removed, the chimney is closed at 0. The problem is that there can also be dazzling colorful smoke of JTACK , once blue, once red, it all depends on the time of day. As soon as the smoke is in the TGP range, the screen turns completely white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The RDN Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I have no solution, fxo / metashaders removed, the chimney is closed at 0. The problem is that there can also be dazzling colorful smoke of JTACK , once blue, once red, it all depends on the time of day. As soon as the smoke is in the TGP range, the screen turns completely white. Indeed there's no solution … totally random bug… and set the chimney smoke to 0 was a good fix before version 2.5.6. A missile smoke trail can turn the FLIR screen totally white.. I have the case with a AGM122 in the Harrier :hmm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomouse Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 As long as it is hot down I have no clear view, but when I zoom out this is only restricted to the area where hell just break loose. Will further try to reproduce. (I have set chimney to 0) VIC-20@1.108 MHz, onboard GPU, 5KB RAM, μυωπία goggles, Competition Pro HOTAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toilet2000 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The FLIR whiteout / blackout in DCS is NOT an intended effect, it is a shader bug likely introduced with deferred shading (2.5). It effects multiple modules A-10C, AV-8B, etc. and also depends on the smoke colour used i.e. for marking targets. It can make night missions impossible as, after the first explosion, the area can be impossible to view for several minutes (5 ?) and you may not even know the area is obscured as the FLIR image remains blank. A work around is to • set "Smoke chimney density" to 0 and restart DCS ... the FLIR bug can also "fix" itself temporally if running several consecutive missions in the same DCS session i.e. playing a replay file several times. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4082694#post4082694 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4082526#post4082526 Clearly the "Good FLIR" image as posted in this thread is no better. It doesn't washout at all. Maybe there are issues with the current rendering (including the washout being sometimes the same "color" as the explosion), but the "good" image is clearly not realistic at all. It should absolutely washout and stay like that for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jppsx Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 getting worried that they dont fix the problem particularly that it a major games breaking issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbies2003 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 IIRC, it's an issue with some smoke markers only. Green is OK, but red has this problem, at least on my system. I just stopped using red markers on my missions, for now. Was your smoke marker red? Yup you are on it. It indeed was red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted June 13, 2020 ED Team Share Posted June 13, 2020 I flew on OB prior to today's patch but after the 10 June patch and besides seeing the DDI disappear when back lit by the sun I also saw this anomaly on the Mav F FLIR video. My buddy had a smoke marker at a base and any time I pointed the seeker at the smoke the ENTIRE page would turn completely white as if it was looking at a huge heat source. Moving the seeker away from the smoke would bring the video back to normal. This kind of issue was also seen but to a lesser extent if I was trying to target in the area of something that had just exploded. This wasn't an issue prior to the 10 June patch and no I'm not running mods. Made targetting vehicles a massive PITA though. Can you show me some screenshots of what you are seeing in this instance? A track as well so I can make sure I am replicating just as you see it. Right now I don't see this type of issue. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padonis Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 I put this in a related post that describes the same problem. I will insert here. I have track and videos. Everything is here. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4383352&postcount=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbies2003 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Can you show me some screenshots of what you are seeing in this instance? A track as well so I can make sure I am replicating just as you see it. Right now I don't see this type of issue. Harker asked me about the smoke color so I very well could be off on not happening prior to patch as the MP servers I fly on don't use smoke thus that part might have simply been the red smoke causing it. Odd that smoke would do that but when I moved the sensor over the smoke it would go totally white and I could reverse it by moving the sensor away from the smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Can you show me some screenshots of what you are seeing in this instance? A track as well so I can make sure I am replicating just as you see it. Right now I don't see this type of issue. Here is a typical AGM-65F example (it is similar to the TGP FLIR issue). Open Beta 2.5.6.50793 Track attached Clearly the "Good FLIR" image as posted in this thread is no better. It doesn't washout at all. Why should it, according to the TGP FLIR image, the smoke is COLD (Black is HOT, White is COLD), yet the warm light background is now dazzled/overexposed by the cold white obscurant. Note: this image is different to the previous IR Mav image which was using White Hot (with black cross hairs)FA-18C AGM-65F Whiteout test, 2_5_6_50973.trk Edited June 14, 2020 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padonis Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 In my videos it looks exactly the same in TGP Flir as in your AGM-65F Flir. Red smoke dazzles TGP FLIR, depending on the time of day, it may be blue smoke. The smoke coming from the fire (heat) should be more dazzling than a smoke candle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) Can you show me some screenshots of what you are seeing in this instance? A track as well so I can make sure I am replicating just as you see it. Right now I don't see this type of issue. Note: This is what it looks like if I play the track a second time - restarting DCS but not my PC i.e. the smoke renders correctly (the IRMav's cross hairs are invisible because they were set to be black, to show up against, what was, a white background). ... this is the same render behaviour as I found with the TGP's FLIR. Edited June 14, 2020 by Ramsay i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Render Bug seems related to the temp folder contents. FLIR/IRMav Render Bug seems related to the temp folder contents. To see the render bug, before starting DCS : • delete the contents of "USERNAME\AppData\Local\Temp\DCS" • Run DCS • View my previous track To see normal render: • Exit DCS to Desktop • Restart DCS • View the same track, note how the smoke/scene render changes and the vehicles are now clearly visible. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hein22 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 FLIR/IRMav Render Bug seems related to the temp folder contents. To see the render bug, before starting DCS : • delete the contents of "USERNAME\AppData\Local\Temp\DCS" • Run DCS • View my previous track To see normal render: • Exit DCS to Desktop • Restart DCS • View the same track, note how the smoke/scene render changes and the vehicles are now clearly visible. I didn't catch the procedure to get it to work properly. Can you expand? Thanks Stay safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) I didn't catch the procedure to get it to work properly. Can you expand? Thanks No problem. Run DCS and play a short track file that displays the issue i.e. my IR Mav track. (not sure if it does it for the first play or needs a second play as well) Exit DCS to windows desktop (important). This will leave some temporary files in "USERNAME\AppData\Local\Temp\DCS" Start DCS a second time and play the same track file, the IRMav IR image will play back correctly due to the presence of the temporary files. Tested Open Beta 2.5.6.50793, Geforce RTX 2070 Super 8GB, Nvidia Driver 446.14 Edited June 14, 2020 by Ramsay typo in version number i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hein22 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Thanks Ramsay. Sounds like a very basic and solvable bug. Hope ED can raise to the occasion. Stay safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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