Weather development

[Weta43]

I don't understand that some people here are so opposed to the idea to have real-time weather in what claims to be the most realistic military flight simulation.

 

Because before a realistic 'real time' implementation of weather can be done first a 'realistic' representation of weather has to be done & then that has to be able to change dynamically.

 

If they're going to spend time coding, spend that time making:

 

1/ a realistic representation of different types of weather

 

2/ the possibility to have the weather states change between types dynamically (as for the current dynamic weather, but with more control and better representation of the weather types)

 

3/ Once they have both those working well, and nothing left to fix on the user controllable weather - then they should think about the added complexity of trying to drive that off real time data.

 

Real time weather might give you some variety if you've got no 'mission' to do, but if you get in the SIM & are unable to carry out the mission you intended to do because the current real life the weather in that area makes it impossible - it'll get old really quickly.

[twistking]

I don't understand that some people here are so opposed to the idea to have real-time weather in what claims to be the most realistic military flight simulation.

 

I don't think that the realtime weather should be the only option either. But, if I create a mission now, putting a carrier in the black sea area, I want to be able to select realtime weather for it.

If the weather then is nice, great. If the weather sucks, rain, fog and/or wind, now you have to make all kinds of decisions regarding attack profile, choice of weapons, and many more considerations.

 

That, in my mind, creates the ultimate simulation of the real-world situation. For historic scenarios you should be able to set it to whatever you want.

 

 

You could have exactly that with dynamic weather + random start seed. The mission designer could even set a dice roll to determine starting conditions at mission start etc. or a dice roll to set chances how the weather should develop over a time, or set it all to dynamic and let the simulation evolve on it's own.

 

Nobody thinks real world weather is bad - but to have it in the sim, you'd probably need the ground works that would enable the above.

 

To be honest, if they can pull out a good weather simulation, i think it would also be more exciting to watch it evolve dynamically than knowing that everything gets just synced in. With dynamic weather you could maybe even inject a new weather system in a running mission to spice up the simulation and see how it evolves with it. Also time acceleration is a thing with dynamic weather. On synced weather not so much...

[ThorBrasil]

I don't understand that some people here are so opposed to the idea to have real-time weather in what claims to be the most realistic military flight simulation.

 

I don't think that the realtime weather should be the only option either. But, if I create a mission now, putting a carrier in the black sea area, I want to be able to select realtime weather for it.

If the weather then is nice, great. If the weather sucks, rain, fog and/or wind, now you have to make all kinds of decisions regarding attack profile, choice of weapons, and many more considerations.

 

That, in my mind, creates the ultimate simulation of the real-world situation. For historic scenarios you should be able to set it to whatever you want.

 

 

+1000

:drunk: :beer:

[Goggles]

+1000

:drunk: :beer:

 

 

If you want real time weather at sea, where does the app find the appropriate weather report to integrate into the simulation?

 

 

 

Or do you mean by real-time weather, weather the user defines at the start, that evolves over time to a user defined end state?

[Tripleshot]

If you want real time weather at sea, where does the app find the appropriate weather report to integrate into the simulation?

 

 

 

Or do you mean by real-time weather, weather the user defines at the start, that evolves over time to a user defined end state?

 

If we knew the answer to this, we would be sitting at a desk at Eagle Dynamics and make the big bucks:huh:.

But seriously, how does MSFS do it? Obviously it's possible. Also, at Windy.com, you can get winds, winds aloft, cloud coverage/layers and so on and on and on, for any point in the world. Just click on the map, and select what data you want to see.

 

I don't know how many users would like to see real-time weather in DCS. It is for ED to know. And it is also ED to tell us if it is possible to do or not.

[NineLine]

I know we looked at it a long time ago, I am not sure if its something we would consider with new development in weather. I think it could be a cool option for sure.

[Worg]

I would very much like to have this possibility of real weather.

Just like choosing the time I want.

 

It will make everyone happy. Looking forward to hearing from the weather, a great addition to DCS.

 

Good luck to the developers who are working on this project.

[ThorBrasil]

If you want real time weather at sea, where does the app find the appropriate weather report to integrate into the simulation?

 

 

 

Or do you mean by real-time weather, weather the user defines at the start, that evolves over time to a user defined end state?

 

No one is talking about a specific day's weather. example: January 1, 1944. The actual weather will pick up the weather for the day that you will be flying regardless of the mission time. It will pick up the weather the moment you have it synchronized with 10, 20 or XX minute intervals. After the specified time, the editor will make a new consultation. That simple. All civilian simulators do this. It shouldn't be difficult to have it in DCS.

[ThorBrasil]

The staff does not understand that they will have the option to make it personalized as it is today. Dynamic weather is not feasible as the work to be done must be large. Better to consult a weather server and make the weather in real time. Currently in all simulators it is like this. There are two options ... Custom weather or Real weather. Dynamic weather is time wasted in development.

[Tom Kazansky]

I guess you need some kind of dynamic weather anyways bc there should be a smooth transition between different weather situations or for the time between two real time weather situation updates. As soon as we have a working dynamic weather the effort to feed it with real time data every XX minutes should not be that huge.

[buur]

The staff does not understand that they will have the option to make it personalized as it is today. Dynamic weather is not feasible as the work to be done must be large. Better to consult a weather server and make the weather in real time. Currently in all simulators it is like this. There are two options ... Custom weather or Real weather. Dynamic weather is time wasted in development.

You are right, consulting a weather server is easier.

 

The question is, do we have access to the weather server and also the historical data? Have we pay for it? Is it fun for the mission designer to search in the historical data for a suitable weather?

 

For me, the real time weather in other flight sims is for saving money. No development of dynamic weather saves money.

 

But I think it is not helpful for mission designers.

[draconus]

Dynamic weather is time wasted in development.

Dynamic weather is the simulation of real weather - that's the whole point. What is the purpose of copying the real weather from the other place on Earth? There's also different time there. So if you want day mission but copy the weather from the place where there's night already that will not be real at all.

 

If all you want is surprise the devs can do "random" button although... waste of time imho.

[buur]

Dynamic weather is the simulation of real weather - that's the whole point.

 

No, dynamic weather is a simplified weather that allows us to store it, make it reproducible and also send it to other players. It should feel like real weather.

 

Real weather, also the simulation of it, is much more complicated. There is a reason why most of the super computers are working in weather forecasting.

[draconus]

It should feel like real weather.

However you call it :)

[112th_Rossi]

No, dynamic weather is a simplified weather that allows us to store it, make it reproducible and also send it to other players. It should feel like real weather.

 

Real weather, also the simulation of it, is much more complicated. There is a reason why most of the super computers are working in weather forecasting.

 

No. You don't store the weather and send it over the internet to other players. The weather generation can be done with a deterministic algorithm. You just need to send the initial state (ie a seed) to the players who then generate the weather and the outcome will be the same.

 

So, every minute or so a new state can be generated, transmitted and then the weather state for clients can be interpolated to produce a dynamic weather system visible for all.

[Mizzy]

Are we going to have F5 hurricanes and Tsunami's at sea :D

 

Seriously this has been the BIGGEST feature I have been waiting for, so much so that I don't currently play DCS until it has some proper clouds. I only fly around (don't do combat) so this is a biggy for me !

 

Mizzy

[buur]

No. You don't store the weather and send it over the internet to other players. The weather generation can be done with a deterministic algorithm. You just need to send the initial state (ie a seed) to the players who then generate the weather and the outcome will be the same.

 

So, every minute or so a new state can be generated, transmitted and then the weather state for clients can be interpolated to produce a dynamic weather system visible for all.

 

Is storing and sending the initial conditions in deterministic system not the same as storing the weather?

I think we are talking about the same...

[112th_Rossi]

Is storing and sending the initial conditions in deterministic system not the same as storing the weather?

I think we are talking about the same...

 

No its just a seed value which is generated from an algorithm that is being run on the server. So as time passes, a new value is generated which is fed into the next iteration. Its just a simple data structure.

[Goggles]

No its just a seed value which is generated from an algorithm that is being run on the server. So as time passes, a new value is generated which is fed into the next iteration. Its just a simple data structure.

 

 

Seed values and deterministic algorithms seem quite complicated. You then have to translate those values into a proper weather structure.

 

 

 

All that's needed is, at the start of play, a one-time download of airport forecasts located in the simulation universe (i.e. Caucasus) and based on this, set the weather generating graphics. Those settings can change over time, depending on the changing forecasting values. In a multi-player environment, there would be one master server or player, from where the weather information can be downloaded and transmitted to the other players.

[Weta43]

From a programming point of view, a seed value and algorithmic / procedural generation of weather is simpler

[Lex Talionis]

... just make weather on all the clients the same as the server. It is unbelievably frustrating when you are flying around trying to pass a location of a target to your wingman, just for them to say "i am in a cloud".

 

It is the one meteorological aspect that prevents a level playing field, not to mention ridiculously unrealistic. The rest is just varying levels of eyecandy quality.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[Goggles]

From a programming point of view, a seed value and algorithmic / procedural generation of weather is simpler

 

 

Why is it simpler from a programming point of view?

 

 

 

Would the visibility be the same all over, or would it vary from airport to airport?

 

 

What determines what kind of cloud, and what heights are the bases and tops, and where the clouds are situated: everywhere on the map, or at specific airports?

 

 

 

Would the user be able to set the clouds and visibility at individual airports?

[Goggles]

... just make weather on all the clients the same as the server. It is unbelievably frustrating when you are flying around trying to pass a location of a target to your wingman, just for them to say "i am in a cloud".

 

It is the one meteorological aspect that prevents a level playing field, not to mention ridiculously unrealistic. The rest is just varying levels of eyecandy quality.

 

 

Has this been the case before? on another simulation?

[Lex Talionis]

Has this been the case before? on another simulation?

 

I am not suere I understand your question...

 

.. are you asking if other games have multiplayer aspects that do not universally sync? I would imagine, sure. Not sure the relevance however.

[Goggles]

I am not suere I understand your question...

 

.. are you asking if other games have multiplayer aspects that do not universally sync? I would imagine, sure. Not sure the relevance however.

 

 

You wrote: 'It is unbelievably frustrating when you are flying around trying to pass a location of a target to your wingman, just for them to say "i am in a cloud".'

 

 

What you just described, is it something you actually experienced before, whether in DCS or another simulation, or is it rhetorical conjecture, i.e. it didn't happen before but you can imagine the upcoming changes producing this result?