announced DCS MiG-29A

[okopanja]

Dudes, lets stop spreading FUD. I am pretty sure ED will announce it once they have something to show. Remember how stealthy BS3 was released?

[Harlikwin]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:54 PM, Evoman said:

Unfortunately ED is unable to do FD modules of Russian aircraft because of political restrictions. However 3rd parties are not bound by the same restrictions, but even they will struggle in acquiring all of the necessary data do make it possible. So the only ones that could possibly do a FF Russian models are the 3rd parties.

One area that ED can focus on is on older eras such as the cold war and WWII to have a more balanced playing filed.

 

 

 

Yup. This will be the future like it or not, but Devs and ED for whatever reason are way too enamored with the latest greatest most irrelevant versions of planes and helos, maybe MFD's are easier to code than steam gauges but I kinda doubt it.

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Dudes, lets stop spreading FUD. I am pretty sure ED will announce it once they have something to show. Remember how stealthy BS3 was released?

I mean I think I called it when I said they would model a "western" mig29... Guess what was featured in the 2023 video... Polish mig29... Western sources...

[Silver_Dragon]

55 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

I mean I think I called it when I said they would model a "western" mig29... Guess what was featured in the 2023 video... Polish mig29... Western sources...

Oh, the "drama".. 2023 video...
- 2:44 A polish Mig-29
- 2:53 Other Mig-29
- 3:24 A Soviet / Rusian Mig-29
- 3:36 Another Mig-29

Poland has new western builded Mig-29 outside Russia? No, has the same Mig-29 9-12 as Soviet Union / Russia.

Quote

- 12 MiG-29s delivered to Poland were nine MiG-29As and three MiG-29UBs in 1989–1990.
- 10 used from the Czech Republic was adquired (nine MiG-29As, one MiG-29UB) on 1995–1996.
- 22 MiG-29s Poland received from the German Air Force in 2004.
- Poland had 31 active MiG-29s (25 MiG-29As, six MiG-29UBs) as of 2017

The problema has be a "donwgraded" version compared with Soviet Mig-29
 

Quote

MiG-29A (Product 9.12A)
Export variant of the 9.12 for Warsaw Pact pact countries which included a downgraded RPLK-29E radar, downgraded OEPrNK-29E optoelectronic and navigation systems and older IFF transponders. This variant also lacked the capability to deliver nuclear weapons. Delivered to East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland and Romania.

 

[Exorcet]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Yup. This will be the future like it or not, but Devs and ED for whatever reason are way too enamored with the latest greatest most irrelevant versions of planes and helos, maybe MFD's are easier to code than steam gauges but I kinda doubt it.

The Cold War is nice and all, but I still don't see why it's so much better than the modern era. It's not free from classified or missing data, and in my opinion needs more supporting assets than modern does to be done correctly. It definitely need to be pursued, but I don't see it being very different from modern.

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

I mean I think I called it when I said they would model a "western" mig29... Guess what was featured in the 2023 video... Polish mig29... Western sources...

Isn't this just an existing MiG-29 skin though? Unless the 3D model in the video is different or something, I think it's hard to draw conclusions.

[SharkWizard]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

Isn't this just an existing MiG-29 skin though? Unless the 3D model in the video is different or something, I think it's hard to draw conclusions.

Certainly. However ED did feature the old Tornado model in a trailer before the announcement of the 3rd party Tornado that is in the works at this time. We could thus say there is a precedent for this sort of revelation ritual.

 

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

The Cold War is nice and all, but I still don't see why it's so much better than the modern era. It's not free from classified or missing data, and in my opinion needs more supporting assets than modern does to be done correctly. It definitely need to be pursued, but I don't see it being very different from modern.

Isn't this just an existing MiG-29 skin though? Unless the 3D model in the video is different or something, I think it's hard to draw conclusions.

 

The point is for mulitplayer PVP servers you need some level of balance and symmetry. Modern online servers are basically blue on blue and this will only get worse as more and more modern blue jets get done for whatever reason. Its my general opinion no one is modeling the modern stuff in DCS all that well, due to lack of data, my favorite whipping boy is the typhoon for that. Compare that to the cold war jets that you generally speaking have a decent amount of documentation on things like, the jet, the radar, the missiles, ground assets and so forth, as well as having doctrinal pubs. 

I frankly see the chinook that ED is making, maybe some sort of marketing ploy to try to sell a modern helo "simulator" to govt clients actually. That or they already have a contract for it. Because if you really think about it older variants saw far more historical use and relevance. Which IMO is the versions that should get made. Same comment on C130. I will likely be buying neither at this point, and its increasingly true for stuff thats coming to DCS. And I'll be the first to say I would be far more interested in older versions of them.  

9 minutes ago, SharkWizard said:

Certainly. However ED did feature the old Tornado model in a trailer before the announcement of the 3rd party Tornado that is in the works at this time. We could thus say there is a precedent for this sort of revelation ritual.

 

Yup totally agreed. 

And honestly I am excited for the Tornado even if it is a slightly later variant than I would like. 

1 hour ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Oh, the "drama".. 2023 video...
- 2:44 A polish Mig-29
- 2:53 Other Mig-29
- 3:24 A Soviet / Rusian Mig-29
- 3:36 Another Mig-29

Poland has new western builded Mig-29 outside Russia? No, has the same Mig-29 9-12 as Soviet Union / Russia.

The problema has be a "donwgraded" version compared with Soviet Mig-29
 

 

Well, its not really a "problema" we get whatever 9.12 variant we get, and I'm betting it will be the export version due to the <profanity>ty world situation for ED at this point. Honestly I'm not sure the downgraded systems are all that much worse really. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Harlikwin

[Silver_Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

The point is for mulitplayer PVP servers you need some level of balance and symmetry.

DCS none has "balance".... that is not War Thunder of symilar.

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

My favorite whipping boy is the typhoon for that.

You remember the Thypoon has build by a 3rd party with has profesional team with build profesional products to governs, include old German Air Force personal? yes, we can get a EFA Block 5 with some restricted featured, but we expected a welcome to that team.

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

I frankly see the chinook that ED is making, maybe some sort of marketing ploy to try to sell a modern helo "simulator" to govt clients actually. That or they already have a contract for it. Because if you really think about it older variants saw far more historical use and relevance.

Or not, remember the AH-64D was not a "military" Contract, and ED has get necesary "contact" to surely get SME, info and experience to make a Heavy Helo on DCS, a leg with actualy  was empty into DCS and expanse your large Helo line modules.

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Same comment on C130.

Building by a 3rd Party with on the past, build a very competent C-130 mod, and jump into a module, as IndiaFoxEcho and your MBB-339A

2 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Yup totally agreed. 

And honestly I am excited for the Tornado even if it is a slightly later variant than I would like. 

By now, has planned a early version.

[Dragon1-1]

17 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Well, its not really a "problema" we get whatever 9.12 variant we get, and I'm betting it will be the export version due to the <profanity>ty world situation for ED at this point. Honestly I'm not sure the downgraded systems are all that much worse really. 

From what I heard, the only real difference between WP and Soviet MiG-29A was the IFF system. I don't think the radar and IRST differ much, could just be a different designation for the ones for export. Places like Poland and Romania, not to mention Germany, were quite important to the Soviets, the "monkey models" were sold to the more distant allies in the 3rd world.

In fact, it's more or less the exact 9.12 that we want, a nimble fighter from the 80s that serves, slightly altered (read: they chucked a commercial GPS in), well into today's era. Uncomplicated, sparse avionics with not much for the pilot to screw up, but a terror in WVR.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

44 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

 

Well, its not really a "problema" we get whatever 9.12 variant we get, and I'm betting it will be the export version due to the <profanity>ty world situation for ED at this point. Honestly I'm not sure the downgraded systems are all that much worse really. 

 

Any Fulcrum is welcome. Period. That said, I wouldn't be looking to ED for it. A Third Party would have obstacles to over come, some of them being the usual while others being signs of the times, but they're clearly lesser hurdles than what ED's in-house developers have to clear.

[jojyrocks]

7 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Any Fulcrum is welcome. Period. That said, I wouldn't be looking to ED for it. A Third Party would have obstacles to over come, some of them being the usual while others being signs of the times, but they're clearly lesser hurdles than what ED's in-house developers have to clear.

 

 

There is hardly any red aircraft other than FC3 versions to balance out with the many many amount very modern blueforce. I mean, there is Mig 21, Mig 15 and Mig 19. So, hopefully, if ED cannot do it, then maybe other developers who may not be so constrained with too many restrictions. So all in all, as understood, Mig 29 is in indefinite hold until further notice. 

 

There are a lot of mods of even latest aircrafts...at least want to see some AI 3D assets being updated. We still have a lot of early LOMAC quality AI 3D planes that sorely needs updating. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by jojyrocks

[Harlikwin]

9 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

There is hardly any red aircraft other than FC3 versions to balance out with the many many amount very modern blueforce. I mean, there is Mig 21, Mig 15 and Mig 19. So, hopefully, if ED cannot do it, then maybe other developers who may not be so constrained with too many restrictions. So all in all, as understood, Mig 29 is in indefinite hold until further notice. 

 

There are a lot of mods of even latest aircrafts...at least want to see some AI 3D assets being updated. We still have a lot of early LOMAC quality AI 3D planes that sorely needs updating. 

 

Ultimately, this is why Cold War will become the dominant center of gravity for DCS, there are tons of planes to model on both sides, they are out of service therefore accessible. And lets be honest, that the cold war period is something ED can likely actually do a good job of modeling in terms of stuff other than just planes. And from the multiplayer perspective the cold war era actually was relatively balanced.

[Silver_Dragon]

10 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

There is hardly any red aircraft other than FC3 versions to balance out with the many many amount very modern blueforce. I mean, there is Mig 21, Mig 15 and Mig 19. So, hopefully, if ED cannot do it, then maybe other developers who may not be so constrained with too many restrictions. So all in all, as understood, Mig 29 is in indefinite hold until further notice. 

 

You missing the future RAZBAM Mig-23MLA, the Su-17/22 building by others 3rd parties, a team building a Mig-17 waiting turn to 3rd party, and surely more can coming as a future Dekka module.

[Harlikwin]

4 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

You missing the future RAZBAM Mig-23MLA, the Su-17/22 building by others 3rd parties, a team building a Mig-17 waiting turn to 3rd party, and surely more can coming as a future Dekka module.

Yeah all those are cold war era. Nothing modern coming for red as the Su-27 seems off limits for basically everyone. Maybe Deka can make up a J-10 which systems wise should be close to the current JF17. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

13 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

 

 

There is hardly any red aircraft other than FC3 versions to balance out with the many many amount very modern blueforce. I mean, there is Mig 21, Mig 15 and Mig 19. So, hopefully, if ED cannot do it, then maybe other developers who may not be so constrained with too many restrictions. So all in all, as understood, Mig 29 is in indefinite hold until further notice. 

 

There are a lot of mods of even latest aircrafts...at least want to see some AI 3D assets being updated. We still have a lot of early LOMAC quality AI 3D planes that sorely needs updating. 

 

At least the ED iteration of it. I'm not so sure they'd turn down a third party looking to craft their own experience with that. I think there will be still some issues, but it's still a significantly better chance. I actually think they ran into the same issue with the MiG-23 years ago. That didn't stop RAZBAM from working on one, so there's definitely a silver lining.

And me, too. Some of those LOMAC models are probably looking at retirement getaways in the Bahamas given their age.

[Wizard_03]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:36 AM, BIGNEWY said:

Please treat each other with respect. 

As you are already aware the Mig-29 is something we would like to do, however at this moment we have no news to share. 

thank you

Glad to hear it's still being considered! 

[jojyrocks]

12 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

At least the ED iteration of it. I'm not so sure they'd turn down a third party looking to craft their own experience with that. I think there will be still some issues, but it's still a significantly better chance. I actually think they ran into the same issue with the MiG-23 years ago. That didn't stop RAZBAM from working on one, so there's definitely a silver lining.

And me, too. Some of those LOMAC models are probably looking at retirement getaways in the Bahamas given their age.

 

Mig 23 being realized is good news, indeed.

I was also talking about the many AI air assets that is in need of updation as well. But seeing plenty of mods and all, like seeing the Su-30 mods and still we have this GIMP paint Su-30 AI model flying. Lot of core AI air asset models need updating, We are in also big need of Boeing 747 and Il-96 as AI to do all those escort missions scenarios. It has taken practically ages to update the AI 3D air models, some got updated, lot more missing and still GIMP Paint planes flying.

 

I understand Mig 29A development on hold due to security and prosecution issues for ED.

 

I am glad to see at least some cold war mid era red jets are being realized, that is good. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Ultimately, this is why Cold War will become the dominant center of gravity for DCS, there are tons of planes to model on both sides, they are out of service therefore accessible. And lets be honest, that the cold war period is something ED can likely actually do a good job of modeling in terms of stuff other than just planes. And from the multiplayer perspective the cold war era actually was relatively balanced.

 

 

Very true, cold war era is being balanced, the early to mid cold war era.

Edited January 12, 2023 by jojyrocks

[draconus]

23 minutes ago, jojyrocks said:

I was also talking about the many AI air assets that is in need of updation as well. But seeing plenty of mods and all, like seeing the Su-30 mods and still we have this GIMP paint Su-30 AI model flying. Lot of core AI air asset models need updating, We are in also big need of Boeing 747 and Il-96 as AI to do all those escort missions scenarios. It has taken practically ages to update the AI 3D air models, some got updated, lot more missing and still GIMP Paint planes flying.

ED plans are known for updating models:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/254461-official-news-2021/?do=findComment&comment=4532354

Quote

 

Large Aircraft: B-52H, Tu-95MS, Tu-142, B-1B, IL-38, and Tu-160

Carrier Aircraft: S-3B and SH-60B

Ground Units: M1A2, AMX-56 Leclerc, Wespe Sd.Kfz.124, KS-19 100mm ADA, Son-4 “Flap Wheel” radar, C1 Ariete, Pantsir SA-22 “Greyhound”, and S-300/SA-10 “Grumble”.

 

for anything else create your own wishlist.

[BIGNEWY]

Please stay on topic here. 

thank you

[Repvez]

The biggest problem for me, that there is no any AC  for multirole or at least precision  attack in eastern side. 

unfortunately in real life neither. very limited of capability  for self targeting  for laser guided bombs. no targeting pod for MIG29 or Szu-35 or even laser, TV or radar guided weapons.

Yes,I know there is some, but they are not use very often.

So even if we get a full fidelity Mig 29  we don't have  any  multirole AC compare with the west side .There are multiple AC are capable ti carry and use  those systems.

[okopanja]

35 minutes ago, Repvez said:

unfortunately in real life neither. very limited of capability  for self targeting  for laser guided bombs. no targeting pod for MIG29 or Szu-35 or even laser, TV or radar guided weapons.

Later 29 versions included some of those multirole capabilities, however these versions can not be implemented by ED due to known restrictions. These roles were covered before by aircraft such as Su-25 and Su-17/22, Mig-27 or larger Su-24, Tu-22M3.

Some of these are still in prohibited zone.

As for the targeting pods: it appears this is the problem the current russian air force at present time as well.

Edited January 12, 2023 by okopanja

[F-2]

1 hour ago, Repvez said:

The biggest problem for me, that there is no any AC  for multirole or at least precision  attack in eastern side. 

unfortunately in real life neither. very limited of capability  for self targeting  for laser guided bombs. no targeting pod for MIG29 or Szu-35 or even laser, TV or radar guided weapons.

Yes,I know there is some, but they are not use very often.

So even if we get a full fidelity Mig 29  we don't have  any  multirole AC compare with the west side .There are multiple AC are capable ti carry and use  those systems.

Well at least you can get HARM on a fulcrum these days!

[okopanja]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:12 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

The F-117s been compromised since Operation Allied Force nearly 20+ years ago. Still classified, and will likely stay that way.

The detailed account of F-117 shot down from point of unit which did it, was published in 2016 in a book named "Пад ноћног сокола", by colonel Slavisa Golubovic, ex member of the 3 rd 250 rb. The book is translated into Russian as: "Падение ночного ястреба" – Славиша Голубович. 

The English/Chinese translation are in preparation. So in a way since 6-7 years ago this is not such a secret anymore.

On 1/9/2023 at 6:12 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

The grim fact is until Russia replaces these legacy aircraft with Su-57s & advanced Flankers/Fulcrums , they will not be inclined to publicly license & distribute information. That sets up DCS for an asymmetrical gaming experience, but I doubt Moscow cares enough to correct the situation (unless someone here convinces Putin Russian planes dying in DCS merits a policy change). 

Again, many of these aircraft are in possession of foreign powers already. Selling future aircraft means they will need to market them. Video game might be one way to do it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by okopanja

[Kalasnkova74]

13 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

I understand Mig 29A development on hold due to security and prosecution issues for ED.

 

I am glad to see at least some cold war mid era red jets are being realized, that is good.

For DCS multiplayer, Cold War is going to be the main show for the foreseeable future. Not only is there asymmetry between the capabilities of “Blue” and “Red”, but the same reason we won’t see modern “Red” aircraft will shortly affect the “Blue” side too. Rafales, Super Hornets and F-35s are unlikely to appear in DCS anytime soon except as mods.

[okopanja]

5 minutes ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

For DCS multiplayer, Cold War is going to be the main show for the foreseeable future. Not only is there asymmetry between the capabilities of “Blue” and “Red”, but the same reason we won’t see modern “Red” aircraft will shortly affect the “Blue” side too. Rafales, Super Hornets and F-35s are unlikely to appear in DCS anytime soon except as mods.

This is true, but hope remains that late cold war birds: Mig-29 and Su-27 might become FF one day. To be honest: I started flying this at the time of original Su-27 Flanker for DOS/Windows, and are kind of sentimentally stuck with Flanker, but FF Fulcrum will do fine for me, even in oldest version.

[Sneethe]

It's a bit strange to me that some people think of the MiG29A as a modern stand-in for red, it really isn't it's more so another cold war aircraft (which is cool 80s cold war is awesome)

SU-30MKK may still be on the table for Dekka. It would be the saving grace for modern REDFOR and give it a strike eagle equivalent. Together with the JF-17 (technically nonaligned) I think modern pvp could still work. 

The alternative is always being a bit creative and having EU vs US PVP. Eurofighter, Tornado & Mirage should do well against the current US lineup.