announced DCS MiG-29A

[Harlikwin]

2 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

Again, not true and I don't know where you get this idea from. The Iranian "confmed" kills are very much confirmed by the west and multiple independent sources and the unconfirmed grey area is much larger. And that Tornado guy was just a dude who knew nothing about the Tomcat nor the Phoenix (why should he as a brit and no US sec. clearence) and was probably "proud" about his fancy F3 or ADS. It is a subjective opinion not based on the facts at hand. Again, there are literally hundreds of reports, trials and accounts for both the A and C models proving this. The missiles design criteria even dicatate this. 

 

But we really are getting offtopic at this point. 

 

I never said the Iranians dint get kills. I'm saying they got them under specific circumstances for the most part. And what's not known is how many phx they expended to get those kills. 

[TLTeo]

Honestly it's easy to come up with reasonable estimates.

 

274 AIM-54s were delivered before the 1979 revolution. Assuming all were shot (which is wrong seeing as they still have them today) for a total of ~80 kills, one can estimate a lower limit to the Pk of  ~30%. Supposedly there were 50 AIM-54s "operational" in 1987, but from what I can find that does not includes missiles that were not fired, but were not in combat conditions due to lack of supplies etc. If we assume they fired 174 rounds, had 50 operational left, and 50 non-operational left, the Pk goes up to ~45%. Obviously one can play this game and get even higher Pks, but let's take 45% as the highest sensible number.

 

From what I can find on Google, the AIM-7 Pk in 1982 in BVR (for a very small sample size of 5 shots and 1 kill) was ~20%. I can't find good numbers for Desert Storm but I have seen claims that it was similar to Bekaa Valley - let's assume that instead, it went up to 30%. Also from what I can tell from Wikipedia, the AMRAAM all in all has a Pk of 63%. The fighters the Sparrow, Phoenix and AMRAAM were fired against also do not differ significantly in their capability (ie, they were all cheapy export models with mediocre ECM gear, save perhaps the Iraqi Mirage F1-EQs).

 

Let's assume all these estimates are off by a factor of about 15% each. That is still enough to conclude that at worst, the -A model Phoenix was as effective as late model Sparrows -or the Skyflash carried by the F3- in terms of Pk (plus bringing a bunch of tactical advantages, obviously). At best, it was considerably better, but still not as good as the AMRAAM. Financial reasons aside, I think that qualifies it as an effective anti-fighter weapon for its time.

 

edit: I'll add that the statement of "the Tornado pilot thought the Phoenix was a non factor" is misunderstood imo. You can interpret his statements as simply not simulating Phoenix shots because those were the RoEs. I mean, the had the guy go up with ferry tanks that limited his jet to 2-3g after all, that's infinitely more restrictive than limiting Phoenix shots anyway.

Edited June 22, 2021 by TLTeo

[BIGNEWY]

Please keep on topic, discussion here is about the Mig-29 

 

thanks

[pepin1234]

Mig-29A can do his original job from 80's. You just need the right strategy, the right server. Most of the server out there have not front line. you are fighting in open territory, Not real...

 

 

[Harlikwin]

54 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

Please keep on topic, discussion here is about the Mig-29 

 

thanks

 

So, will our mig29 have lazur and a halfway intelligent AI gci infrastructure to make use of the same? 

[pepin1234]

25 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

So, will our mig29 have lazur and a halfway intelligent AI gci infrastructure to make use of the same? 

no is not yet implemented but mean while you can do some tactics that complement what they will add. I guess they will add it some day.

 

anyway the tactics I am talking about are part of the GCI and Lazur. If we get GCI and Lazur and we keep doing the same stupid face on fight then is a waste of everything…
 

Now we are struggling with that awful EWR. It is hard do it so because you don’t have a picture of the enemy. 
 

I will recommended to ED bringing back the Datalink to at least Mig-29S only as it is real some unit got Datalink for the time of end 80's. Like that we can compensate the leak of GCI tactical information.

 

that will be reasonable, but in reality they will not do that because they have FC3 Russians as hunting ducks for the new modules.

[BIGNEWY]

1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

 

So, will our mig29 have lazur and a halfway intelligent AI gci infrastructure to make use of the same? 

 

I dont have any news to share currently about the Mig-29, it is still something we would like to do, but it is very early days. 

 

thanks

[Harlikwin]

7 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

 

I dont have any news to share currently about the Mig-29, it is still something we would like to do, but it is very early days. 

 

thanks

 

How about you toss that into the eagerly requested feature pool. 

[Cmptohocah]

1 hour ago, pepin1234 said:

that will be reasonable, but in reality they will not do that because they have FC3 Russians as hunting ducks for the new modules.

Depends who's flying though. Couple of guys here from forums kick ass in Su-27s and MIG-29s on MP servers. With a good GCI, 29S is quite a capable machine. 

[Harlikwin]

1 hour ago, Cmptohocah said:

Depends who's flying though. Couple of guys here from forums kick ass in Su-27s and MIG-29s on MP servers. With a good GCI, 29S is quite a capable machine. 

 

I get kills without too much problem with a 9.12 and gci on modern servers. The key is gci, which is why I want ED to provide a decent AI gci, but the garbage AWACS we currently have that calls pit tanker 100mi away, tanker 150mi away, merged.... 

 

A full 50% of any russian module is gci/iads it's supposed to work within. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Harlikwin

[pepin1234]

How? Flying low in mountains without AAA facing you. Let’s be serious… That’s why this is a game.

Edited June 22, 2021 by pepin1234

[Max1mus]

2 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

I get kills without too much problem with a 9.12 and gci on modern servers. The key is gci, which is why I want ED to provide a decent AI gci, but the garbage AWACS we currently have that calls pit tanker 100mi away, tanker 150mi away, merged.... 

 

A full 50% of any russian module is gci/iads it's supposed to work within. 

 

Soviet. Russian or even exported (like most russian fighters from the late 90s to 2000s were instead of being put into service) fighters are all very independent and close to western doctrine. You dont have MiG-29Ms and Su-30SMs flying around without datalink and capable radars.

That doesnt mean theyre just brainless fox3 spammers like the western planes. A Su-30MKI or SM can support an ER while going half-cold from the enemy. Makes a semi active missile much more competitive, especially given the size of the rocket motor.

IRST on every fighter, with things like 360 degree coverage on a MiG-29M, is no joke either. Neither are the much more capable anti-ship and anti radiation missiles.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Max1mus

[Wizard_03]

2 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

Soviet. Russian or even exported (like most russian fighters from the late 90s to 2000s were instead of being put into service) fighters are all very independent and close to western doctrine. You dont have MiG-29Ms and Su-30SMs flying around without datalink and capable radars.

Not MiG-29As though, their Radar is absolute garbage for Independent search and destroy compared to even contemporary sets like AWG-9 let alone the modern America stuff, and so is RWR gear.

 

You pretty much need offboard sensors to be effective and know whats going on at any realistic BVR ranges.

 

[pepin1234]

5 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

IRST on every fighter, with things like 360 degree coverage on a MiG-29M, is no joke either.

 

 

360 degrees? IRST in Mig-29M is forward search. The earlier 360 degrees seen under intake was abandoned and was not really IRST, was a targeting pod. 

[Harlikwin]

54 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

Soviet. Russian or even exported (like most russian fighters from the late 90s to 2000s were instead of being put into service) fighters are all very independent and close to western doctrine. You dont have MiG-29Ms and Su-30SMs flying around without datalink and capable radars.

That doesnt mean theyre just brainless fox3 spammers like the western planes. A Su-30MKI or SM can support an ER while going half-cold from the enemy. Makes a semi active missile much more competitive, especially given the size of the rocket motor.

IRST on every fighter, with things like 360 degree coverage on a MiG-29M, is no joke either. Neither are the much more capable anti-ship and anti radiation missiles.

 

 

Well we aren't getting a 29M, we are likely getting a 9.12, maybe something a bit better. 

[Max1mus]

56 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

 

360 degrees? IRST in Mig-29M is forward search. The earlier 360 degrees seen under intake was abandoned and was not really IRST, was a targeting pod. 

 

I read its a targeting pod/IRST/MWS combo with a 15km track range.

[Max1mus]

12 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Well we aren't getting a 29M, we are likely getting a 9.12, maybe something a bit better. 

 

What would that be? After 9.12/9.13 the next best is the late 2000s M.

 

If its possible, they could go for prototypes... Su-27M and maybe the old MiG-29M/K from 1991 would be interesting. The older Su-27M would have some stuff from modern Su-30s and the oldest 29K was still supposed to have guided A/G, a more modern RWR, even picture datalink/MFI-55? Maybe even a better radar?

 

Maybe theyre easier to get info on/to legally do.

[Harlikwin]

9 minutes ago, Max1mus said:

 

What would that be? After 9.12/9.13 the next best is the late 2000s M.

 

If its possible, they could go for prototypes... Su-27M and maybe the old MiG-29M/K from 1991 would be interesting. The older Su-27M would have some stuff from modern Su-30s and the oldest 29K was still supposed to have guided A/G, a more modern RWR, even picture datalink/MFI-55? Maybe even a better radar?

 

Maybe theyre easier to get info on/to legally do.

 

I mean I think a prototype is in the realm of possibility, look at BS3, though it might go over like a lead balloon. I'm expecting a 9.12, I'd be happy with a 9.13 (or both tbh, I expect 80s is gonna fill out in dcs and be the "fun" decade anyway for pvp) if it's something more modern great, but I'm not holding my breath, and I'd bet it's some export model or prototype in that case. Mu dream would be a 29k. 

[Max1mus]

21 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

I mean I think a prototype is in the realm of possibility, look at BS3, though it might go over like a lead balloon. I'm expecting a 9.12, I'd be happy with a 9.13 (or both tbh, I expect 80s is gonna fill out in dcs and be the "fun" decade anyway for pvp) if it's something more modern great, but I'm not holding my breath, and I'd bet it's some export model or prototype in that case. Mu dream would be a 29k. 

Nothing wrong with an export model. After the collapse of the USSR, the export models were superior to the aircraft used in the Russian Air Force. Up until the early 2010s, at least.

[Harlikwin]

10 hours ago, Max1mus said:

Nothing wrong with an export model. After the collapse of the USSR, the export models were superior to the aircraft used in the Russian Air Force. Up until the early 2010s, at least.

 

I agree. And from a documentation standpoint with that Russian law that's the way I think any modern red module needs to go. 

[WinterH]

In 2000s, even some of 2010s, export models were the actual hot stuff anyway.

 

If they become a possibility, I'd love Su-30MKI, MKM, MKK, or MiG-29K for example. But a- their operator countries on average seem even more paranoid about their military hardware data, b- types still have lots of Russian equipment that may prove problematic for ED if they are the ones to make the module.

[Wizard_03]

On 6/22/2021 at 7:28 PM, Harlikwin said:

Mu dream would be a 29k. 

Mune too. Indian 29K from the mid 2000s would be a perfect choice considering what we have now.

 

I for one would absolutely hate the idea of a prototype or technology demonstrator in the sim. I can't even Imagine the foghorn level cries about balance and realism from both red and blue sides, and there will be exactly zero we in the community can do to validate anything about it.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Wizard_03

[Gierasimov]

MiG-29 (9.13) MU1 standard

 

[Harlikwin]

16 hours ago, Gierasimov said:

MiG-29 (9.13) MU1 standard

 

 

More info on this? What does the shiny new MFD do? 

[Gierasimov]

4 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

More info on this? What does the shiny new MFD do? 

Not much info, but its doing GPS navigation with map, displays radar, and new electronically monitored systems information.