viper2097 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Some of us recognized a few days ago that the Harrier is missing the "Early Access" tag in the shop and in the game. As the Harrier is still full of bugs, missing functionality, wrong implementations and does not even have a full manual, this step would not be understandable. Especially as it seems to be done "silent and without any announcement". So is the actual state of the Harrier now considered as "finished" by Razbam and is this also approved by ED? Edited September 7, 2020 by viper2097 Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules
Cunctator Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Out of early access does not equate "finished" or "complete" in DCS these days. This was discussed at length when the Fw-190A8 left early access back in spring. Out of early access??: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=267282
notproplayer3 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Out of early access does not equate "finished" or "complete" in DCS these days. This was discussed at length when the Fw-190A8 left early access back in spring. Out of early access??: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=267282 That's indeed the issue, I don't know the fw190 module but I do know that in no way does the harrier qualify as being out of early access, it says on the product page that the harrier is a "study level" simulation, if someone is seeing it's out of early access and seeing what's written on the product page, anybody seeing this without knowing too much will suppose that the harrier is in a fully complete state, unlike what it is at the moment Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?
Knock-Knock Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Can just have a look at ED's own Hornet roadmap, regarding out of EA. Plenty of items still coming after Early Access. https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300736&postcount=185 - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none. - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS. | Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals |
jasonbirder Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Surely, but surely a proper Manual is an absolute bare minimum requirement before leaving EA...even if there are future systems to be implemented/polished Crazy they could even consider calling it out of EA (even if not feature complete) without a manual...its meant to be a study sim...what are you supposed to study? I truly hope this isn't something being run up the flagpole to see if they can get the F/A18C out of EA without a manual... Edited September 7, 2020 by jasonbirder
sirrah Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Although I find it a very arguable statement, one could say that moving out of EA does not automatically mean a module is feature complete. However, as someone who's used to work in large (non-software-development) projects, I'd expect that moving out of EA would be at least a very serious milestone (heck, it's a proper reason for a small party with the entire team! :yay: :beer:) So, I was a bit surprised when I discovered that the AV-8B moved out of EA, without at least broadly mentioning it in the weekly newsletter (or have I been blind and missed that?) The fact that there has been dead-silence from Razbam on this forum for the past couple weeks, doesn't create a lot of trust.. (when it comes to what "Early Access" means and how complete software should be upon official release, I guess the software development sector gave its own meaning to that. I know our clients wouldn't be happy if we delivered a detail engineering package and said: well, it's not complete yet, but you'll get the rest later at some point, maybe. But ok, lets not move this thread in that discussion direction :P) System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM - Realsimulator FSSB-R3 ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 Surely, but surely a proper Manual is an absolute bare minimum requirement before leaving EA...even if there are future systems to be implemented/polished Crazy they could even consider calling it out of EA (even if not feature complete) without a manual...its meant to be a study sim...what are you supposed to study? I truly hope this isn't something being run up the flagpole to see if they can get the F/A18C out of EA without a manual... What? F/A-18C has a manual and is being updated as new features are added, I don't see why you have to constantly talk the work being done down, its getting a bit tiresome now. The topic here is the AV-8B please stick to it. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 Hi all the AV-8B feature list is complete https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/av8bna/ product sustainment continues however. Thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
bkthunder Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Just to be clear... In case the Harrier is really considered by ED and/or Razbm to be finished, or feautre complete, or in any way close to its description of being highly realistic and accurate, let me just take the official description and mark what is really included in the product we paid for, according to the many unresolved bug reports so far: Key Features of DCS: AV-8B N/A VTOL by RAZBAM include: Advanced Flight Model that provides realistic performance and flight characteristics of a Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) aircraft - Several peculiar flight charachteristics are not modelled Highly detailed external 3D model and textures with animations The external 3D model has clipping errors and modeling inaccuracies in several places (e.g. check the position and shape of the air scoops just behind the canopy) Highly detailed and accurate 6 DOF cockpit with high resolution textures, specular and bump mapping, and mouse-interactive controls Cockpit lighting makes it impossible to use this NIGHT ATTACK AIRCRAFT at night Highly realistic modelling of the aircraft systems including electrical, fuel, hydraulics, lighting, engine and navigation that includes: This i a big one, considering we can't even complete the start-up checklist in a realistic way Digital Engine Control System (DECS) Automatic Fuel System Air Refueling System Electrical Power System External Lighting Internal Lighting Hydraulic Power Supply System Flight Control System (FCS) Head-Up Display (HUD)special mention for the Bugged FPM that "falls off to the side of the HUD when in a turn or when there is wind Up-front Control (UFC) missing functionality Option Display Unit (ODU) Multipurpose Color Displays (MPCD) missing pages, bugged HUD view etc VREST Computer (for jet-borne flight) incomplete, not calculating noz rotation angles for example Air Data Computer (ADC) Environmental Control System (ECS) On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS) Realistic weapons, sensor, and defensive systems include: Several unresolved bugs reported for various wapons and aiming systems. Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground GAU-12 Equalizer 25 mm (0.984 in) 5-barreled Rotary cannon pod 6 under-wing pylon stations holding up to 9,200 lb (4,200 kg) of payload which include: AIM-9 Sidewinder or similar-sized infrared-guided missiles AGM-65 Maverick Air-to-Surface missiles Mark 80 series of unguided bombs (including 3 kg [6.6 lb] and 14 kg [31 lb] practice bombs) Paveway series of Laser-Guided Bombs (LGBs) Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GBU-38, GBU-32, and GBU-54) Mark 20 Cluster Bomb Units (CBUs) AN/AAQ-28V LITENING targeting pod ALQ-164 ECM Pod Several skins Detailed Operational Manual and Pocket guide Missing Instant Action, Single, and Training Missions Detailed representation of the USS Tarawa (LHA-1), lead ship of her class. Bugged and incomplete, missing glideslope signal system and other lights related to the landing system Check the community bug tracker for open/unresolved/unacknowledged bugs Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 As mentioned out of early access, but continued product sustainment. Bugs if verified will be addressed. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
viper2097 Posted September 7, 2020 Author Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Bignewy, you said its out of Early Access because its feature complete. bkthunder made a short summary (not far mentioned everything) where things are missing according to the description in the shop. Or can you show me the "Detailed Operation Manual"? And sorry, we do not see any bugs adressed by Razbam. Some not since years. Can you please explain how this fits.to what you said? Edited September 7, 2020 by viper2097 Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 Correct out of early access as the feature list is considered complete. Outstanding bugs can be reviewed, we will take a look at issues and assist RAZBAM with this. Thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Swift. Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 Of the feature list on the store page, GBU54 and GBU32 are still missing. 476th Discord | 476th Website | Swift Youtube Ryzen 5800x, RTX 4070ti, 64GB, Quest 2
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 Of the feature list on the store page, GBU54 and GBU32 are still missing. I will check with RAZBAM Swift. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Expert Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 ...Can you please explain how this fits.to what you said? It must be nice to spend 70 bucks and find yourself an unusable "product" in a hypothetical dynamic campaign. Could it be just a marketing strategy to sell to the unwary? Take a look here for the EA part https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 It must be nice to spend 70 bucks and find yourself an unusable "product" in a hypothetical dynamic campaign. Could it be just a marketing strategy to sell to the unwary? Take a look here for the EA part https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141 The AV-8B is not unusable so don't go exaggerating, there is no need for it. As mentioned already bugs will be reviewed. thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Hawkeye_UK Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Bignewy just to be clear my posts got deleted - one for controversy for some unknown reason (couldn't be further from the truth ). It was purely asking why this thread had disappeared even and referenced the community bug tracker, lack of progress and in it i also mentioned about the GBU32 and 54 and how it can be considered systems complete given where we are with the module. There is a growing resentment when you speak to experienced harrier players online (aka know the Natops), on this forum and in the wider community to Razbam's poor communication. This is not trying to raise controversy its purely a fact. -I have noticed this has gathered some pace in the last few months with the Harrier module. I was purely asking for this to be raised within ED and for a review, given that we all care passionately about this module. Was it ED or Razbam that deleted the posts - just curious where the censorship is now coming from and why? If its not something you want to post please just pm me,but silencing objective customer feedback, that cannot be a good thing surely. PS i just wish they would take a leaf out of ED's book as the communication from you and Nineline has been excellent in the last year. Edited September 7, 2020 by Hawkeye_UK --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DCS & BMS F4E | F14B | AV-8B | F15E | F18C | F16C | F5E | F86 | A10C | JF17 | Viggen |M2000 | F1 | L-39 | C101 | Mig15 | Mig21 | Mig29 | SU27 | SU33 | F15C | AH64 | MI8 | Mi24 | Huey | KA50 | Gazelle | CH47 | OH58D | P47 | P51 | BF109 | FW190A/D | Spitfire | Mossie | CA | Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | Channel | Syria | South Atlantic | Sinai | Kola | Afgan | Iraq Liquid Cooled ROG 690 13700K @ 5.9Ghz | RTX3090 FTW Ultra | 64GB DDR4 3600 MHz | 2x2TB SSD m2 Samsung 980/990 | Pimax Crystal/Reverb G2 | MFG Crosswinds | Virpil T50/CM3 | Winwing & Cougar MFD's | Buddyfox UFC | Winwing TOP & CP | Jetseat
AirWalK Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 :mad: For me, thats the final nail in the coffin. ....no more Razbam from now on no MiG-19 no F-15E no MiG-23 no A-29 Super Tucano no South Atlantic Map no OV-10 Bronco no Sea Harrier FRS.1 no Mirage-III or any other wet dream from Razbam. They lost a customer. In DCS and FS2020 or any other Game. Move along.....nothing to see here
ghost84 Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 I regret buying two modules from them. This error will not happen again.
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 7, 2020 ED Team Posted September 7, 2020 Bignewy just to be clear my posts got deleted - one for controversy for some unknown reason (couldn't be further from the truth ). It was purely asking why this thread had disappeared even and referenced the community bug tracker, lack of progress and in it i also mentioned about the GBU32 and 54 and how it can be considered systems complete given where we are with the module. There is a growing resentment when you speak to experienced harrier players online (aka know the Natops), on this forum and in the wider community to Razbam's poor communication. This is not trying to raise controversy its purely a fact. -I have noticed this has gathered some pace in the last few months with the Harrier module. I was purely asking for this to be raised within ED and for a review, given that we all care passionately about this module. Was it ED or Razbam that deleted the posts - just curious where the censorship is now coming from and why? If its not something you want to post please just pm me,but silencing objective customer feedback, that cannot be a good thing surely. PS i just wish they would take a leaf out of ED's book as the communication from you and Nineline has been excellent in the last year. Hi Hawkeye, We wont usually discuss moderation, as per the forum rules ( 1.3 Administrative actions against forum members are not subject to public discussion ) I have tidied up and reopened the thread and merge a deleted post so we can discuss the thread topic, Also we have offered to help RAZBAM on their forum section as they do not have a community manager at the moment, hopefully we can answer some of your posts, and look at the bugs. Of course we do also have a lot of forum to look after, but we will do our best, time permitting. That is all I will say for now, if you have more questions about moderation please PM nineline and myself. Please keep the feedback respectful and remember our rules here. Thank you Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, PIMAX Crystal
Falby Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 One of my favourite sims was Janes F-15E,so I was really excited to see it was in development,but that excitement is quickly waning now, so much so that I'm pretty sure I won't be buying it.
Hawkeye_UK Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) One of my favourite sims was Janes F-15E,so I was really excited to see it was in development,but that excitement is quickly waning now, so much so that I'm pretty sure I won't be buying it. Ha great game, i think i have the manual still somewhere! I even remember buying a 16MB, yes 16MB 3dfx Voodoo Banshee graphics card and being amazed at the level of graphics. If i could have looked into the future and what we now have with VR i probably wouldn't have believed it ! Edited September 7, 2020 by Hawkeye_UK --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DCS & BMS F4E | F14B | AV-8B | F15E | F18C | F16C | F5E | F86 | A10C | JF17 | Viggen |M2000 | F1 | L-39 | C101 | Mig15 | Mig21 | Mig29 | SU27 | SU33 | F15C | AH64 | MI8 | Mi24 | Huey | KA50 | Gazelle | CH47 | OH58D | P47 | P51 | BF109 | FW190A/D | Spitfire | Mossie | CA | Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | Channel | Syria | South Atlantic | Sinai | Kola | Afgan | Iraq Liquid Cooled ROG 690 13700K @ 5.9Ghz | RTX3090 FTW Ultra | 64GB DDR4 3600 MHz | 2x2TB SSD m2 Samsung 980/990 | Pimax Crystal/Reverb G2 | MFG Crosswinds | Virpil T50/CM3 | Winwing & Cougar MFD's | Buddyfox UFC | Winwing TOP & CP | Jetseat
SGT Coyle Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 So does this mean we can expect to more timely resolutions to bugs, missing key binds, and a manual that isn't completely useless? Night Ops in the Harrier IYAOYAS
bkthunder Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 The thing is, I already decided not to ever buy any Razbam product on ANY platform long ago, given the Harrier. However I will not give up on the fact i paid 70 bucks to support them, 3 years ago, and I feel honestly cheated. Yes, cheated, that's the right word. The prodct DOES NOT MATCH the description. The product DOES NOT MATCH the DCS level of fidelity After 3 years. ED has a nice EULA but let's be intellectually honest here: this screams for a refund. Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s
jasonbirder Posted September 7, 2020 Posted September 7, 2020 What? F/A-18C has a manual and is being updated as new features are added, I don't see why you have to constantly talk the work being done down, its getting a bit tiresome now. The topic here is the AV-8B please stick to it. thanks Whilst you are in one sense, correct - the F/A18C Early Access Guide is in a far more up to date state than the last time I browsed it (so apologies) It does concern me a little...that your take away from my "2 Full price Products - No Manuals" comment was...how dare you critisise...ONE of those modules you paid good money for HAS got a manual... Rather than...what can we do to address your concern as a customer about the lack of documentation for a product you paid $60 for nearly 2 years ago...
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