Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[ghost84]

Well said, Snappy!

[Conroy]

Business does call it CUSTOMER CARE.

 

Customer Care

Definition

Customer care is the process of looking after customers to best ensure their satisfaction and delightful interaction with a business and its brand, goods and services.

 

It is closely related to “customer experience” but different than “customer support” or “customer service.”

[viper2097]

This discussion lasts now for three days.

Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam?

It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement.

[BIGNEWY]

This discussion lasts now for three days.

Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam?

It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement.

 

We have said we are working on communication here on the forum, you will need to be patient.

 

For now RAZBAM have been communicating on Discord.

 

Thanks

[ghost84]

Both Prowler and Zeus were online yesterday (look at their last activity at their profile page), but neither found it worth to answer.

[FoxOne007]

So this is how they treat people that contributed to their products now, @ChickenSim

This is utterly disgraceful and distasteful

 

BN/9L or whoever decides this at ED, RAZBAM more than deserves to have their F-15E, A-29, Mig-23 (and all their 20 other announced aircraft) module rights taken away so that a competent 3rd Party or ED can make these and we don’t end up with a similar sh*t storm on these projects in a few years like we are now with the Harrier. This is honestly appalling how they treat people that give constructive criticism, and it’s not just Prowler and Zeus, it’s also Hank and OverStratos that lash out at anyone that says anything remotely negative or even just tries to discuss something in their Discord.

[Mainstay]

O dear.... I really was looking forward to the Mig-23 but seeying how the communication goes between them and people trying to ask for a professional reply makes me freeze my money transfer towards Razbam.

 

 

Doesnt look good at all. Sith and Big are doing the damage control for people that should stand on their own two feet.

I hope Nick has a good conversation with them about their future within DCS.

[Viking 1-1]

If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all, and this should also be one EDs requirements for any 3rd party developer.

 

This!

 

I own the Harrier and I was like "Ok, it is not complete, but it is still nice."

 

Now learning that it is in fact "complete" feels like April fools!

 

I considered the Mudhen as a Day 1 purchase but seeing now how Razbam deals with this (no response in the forums, even on this thread) shows me that Razbam doesnt give a f*** about their products and, even worse, about their customers.

 

So no more Razbam modules for me.

 

And to be honest: This does not only damage the reputation of Razbam, it also damages the reputation of DCS in general. I hope ED is aware of this as well.

[BIGNEWY]

Out of early Access but is in product sustainment.

 

Bugs are being worked on, and we ( ED ) are helping with that.

 

thanks

 

p.s please do not use masked profanity, it is not needed to make a point. thanks

[viper2097]

So the Harrier will definitely not getting pushed back in Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever?

Is this already decided? Last word spoken? Altough many expected systems from the store page are either missing, or mainly missing / wrong?

 

Do I understand this correct?

Edited September 9, 2020 by viper2097

[BIGNEWY]

So the Harrier will not get back into Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever?

Is this already decided? Last word spoken?

 

Do I understand this correct?

 

AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it.

 

We will look at the concerns of the community, we are working through the bugs.

 

It will take time for us to go through the reported issues and check, you will all have to be patient.

[Southernbear]

Ah I see its that time of the month again, Welp only one thing for it...

 

 

 

But in all seriousness I'd like to extend a hand of thanks to all of what the ED Community manages have accomplished so far with this current issue.

[OPEC]

Too Bad actually. But thanks ED for stepping in.

 

Gesendet von meinem SM-N975F mit Tapatalk

Edited September 9, 2020 by OPEC

[wowbagger]

...But in all seriousness I'd like to extend a hand of thanks to all of what the ED Community manages have accomplished so far with this current issue.

 

Agreed. Thanks to BIGNEWY and NineLine for taking this on, and doing what should be done by RAZBAM. It's not really a pleasant situation, but getting your feedback gives the sense that the Harrier won't be forgotten by ED. It's appreciated.

 

Actually representing your product on the official forum may be time consuming, but other, smaller developers manage it here, and there are too many Razbam posts in the Mig-23, F-15E, Malvinas threads for me to buy in to that explanation too heavily.

[=4c=Nikola]

AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it.

 

I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise.

[bkthunder]

I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise.

 

It’s out of early access. Good.

The product DOES NOT meet the official product description, that is what I based my buying decision on.

 

So ED and Razbam are officially stating that they HAVE NOT MET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRODUCT they sold.

I want my money back. I could care less about product sustainment or whatever they decide to name it.

The product is not complete and doesn’t match the description.

Is it a scam?

If not, refund.

 

I am serious.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, digital content should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.

Edited September 9, 2020 by bkthunder

[viper2097]

I would really consider to think again if ED will approve a roll out of the EA.

Otherwise I'm seeing it the same as bkthunder.

 

Enoigh talk over all the years, its no time for some action.

[schurem]

Jesus what a dramatic overreaction again. Can't we all be chill?

[notproplayer3]

Jesus what a dramatic overreaction again. Can't we all be chill?

No. To be honest, 70$ may be a lot for some people, it is for me at least... So I get why people would react the way they do and I won't dare say they should chill.

Edited September 9, 2020 by notproplayer3

[Terrorban]

Looking at the state of feature complete harrier now, I will easily skip out on F-15E. It does not look like RAZBAM will have the level of access to do most of its features. Since the jet is in active duty and all that. Plus spending another 3 years to reach this exact point does not sound very entertaining to me. It is sad how they also hold the license for Mig 23. I will laugh if they cost same as F-14 and Hornet.

 

I would like ED to clarify what is the difference between early access and release build? Preferably in a detailed paragraph instead of one sentence.

[Fri13]

For now RAZBAM have been communicating on Discord.

 

That is something I wish ED would discourage with the third party studios, that communication should primarily happen in the ED forums that has given a dedicated sub-forum for the studio, so that customers of the product can easily find the place and find all the official news, communication and discussions there as primary source.

 

This doesn't mean that ED wouldn't allow extra communication through other channels, but it is not good for ED customers that they are required to use a third party channels/services to get the customer support and information about their purchased product from ED store.

 

It should be a license obligatory condition between ED and Studio.

[SGT Coyle]

Out of early Access but is in product sustainment.

 

Bugs are being worked on, and we ( ED ) are helping with that.

 

 

Repeating the mantra over an over again doesn't help. Every time you post it makes me think "Out of early Access but is in product suspension."

 

 

AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it.

We will look at the concerns of the community, we are working through the bugs.

It will take time for us to go through the reported issues and check, you will all have to be patient.

I can see your loosing patients with this thread. I've lost patients with Razbam, Prowler, and Zues67, a long time ago.

 

 

 

Where has ED been for the last two years? One look at the Bugs section would revealed a complete lack of competence to track, communicate, and resolve bugs.

 

What did ED do when Razbam left the forums, for Discord and FB? Anything?

Why does the support link, on the ED store page for the Harrier still link to these forums? They aren't using them.

 

Why don't you post the criteria for getting out of EA? To me the term "Feature Complete" seems hollow, is unhelpful, and is miss leading. I would like to see for myself what boxes need to be ticked. If it sounds like I am second guessing EDs decision in this matter, I am. I have lost faith in EDs ability to protect its customer base, mostly minors, from predatory business practices in the guise of software development.

 

Two years ago when the pitch forks came out. BigNewy, NineLine, Wags , and others kept repeating the same things. "It's and Alpha", "It's Early Access", and oldie but a goodie "If you can't deal with slow development, EA is not for you". The result:

 

• A call for patients and understanding.
  
• A Community Manager (=Decoy=) assigned
  
• Razbam Bug Tracker
  

And a burst of activity. Short lived as it was.

 

 

But patience was rewarded. We got a pilot body out of it. No seat adjustment, but the body.

 

Ed please answer the questions I put forward above. If only restore the lost confidence and offer the transparency so lacking in the decision.

 

 

and I didn't use any veiled profanity. Ya me!

Edited September 9, 2020 by SGT Coyle

[Snappy]

We have said we are working on communication here on the forum, you will need to be patient.

 

For now RAZBAM have been communicating on Discord.

 

Thanks

 

Really, I wish you would stop defending their behaviour.

 

If you want to call insulting customers and simply deleting critical posts or questions "communicating", well then yes, they're communicating on Discord. Great..

It would do you and ED much better if you came out straight forward and said sth like : "Razbam botched up the communication and Harrier out of EA-thing big time & we will straighten them out."

 

This ongoing defense of them and downplaying of serious customer trust issues is really not good for EDs image as a "parent" / distributor of their products.

I also can sense you getting increasingly annoyed with this thread and as a human being of course you only have a limited amount of patience, but the same applies to the customers in regards to Razbam.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

Edited September 9, 2020 by Snappy

[Fri13]

No. To be honest, 70$ may be a lot for some people, it is for me at least... So I get why people would react the way they do and I won't dare say they should chill.

 

http://www.worldwealthcalculator.org/

 

If you make $33,500 a year, you are among the richest 5% in the world.

 

There are 6.2 billion people less wealthy than you.

[SGT Coyle]

It would do you and ED much better if you came out straight forward and said sth like : "Razbam botched up the communication and Harrier out of EA-thing big time & we will straighten them out."

 

 

The defenses offered up and the taking over of bug tracking /communication ,is pretty bad. But rewarding their abysmal performance with Release, is betrayal. Especially the way it was done.

 

 

I don't want a refund. I want the plane. I want Razbam off the project. EDs Third party scheme is obviously flawed. I lost my rear end on the Hawk and I don't intend to that again. Ed never made that right and I fear the same down the line.

 

 

Razbam is not big enough to do the work the scale demands. Maybe as contractor responsible to ED, but not as a vendor responsible to us, the customer base. We can holler for refund, claim no more purchases, but they don't care. They are primarily a training products company. Let them go do that. As a Third Party Vendor on DCS World they are terrible.

You have to agree...