Opinion requested: Upcoming Facebook account requirement for Quest 2

[Taz1004]

Actually they do.

When you sign, the new policy is to acquire proof of identity such as real phone number or ID card. If you don't give them, many users have reported that their accounts were closes within minutes.

And if you are signed in, *any* site on the web that you visit and that has Facebook share or Facebook connect, even if you never use them, will ping Facebook and associate you name (real name) with your visit. For instance, Facebook knows what product I have seen on Amazon, even if you never post anything on Facebook.

 

What I don't get is... why people complain about Facebook when everyone including Microsoft, google, and Amazon also does all that? And google is actually far worse than Facebook.

 

I'm not saying this is not an issue. It is a big issue. And I think it has to get far worse before people actually realize the ramifications of this. Not just Facebook but ALL online companies. Snowden incident obviously has done nothing.

[Thadiun Okona]

Facebook is a hard no for me

[Svsmokey]

While it is true that many companies do harvest data , and some should , since that's how they provide an otherwise "free" service , there is much that is uniquely creepy about Facebook , and i want nothing to do with it .

[eaglecash867]

What I don't get is... why people complain about Facebook when everyone including Microsoft, google, and Amazon also does all that? And google is actually far worse than Facebook.

 

I'm not saying this is not an issue. It is a big issue. And I think it has to get far worse before people actually realize the ramifications of this. Not just Facebook but ALL online companies. Snowden incident obviously has done nothing.

 

So far, I haven't seen any evidence of anybody but Facebook making unauthorized entry into my e-mail contact list and use that to connect me to people in that list. That's the thing that sets Facebook apart from the others for me.

[Taz1004]

While it is true that many companies do harvest data , and some should , since that's how they provide an otherwise "free" service , there is much that is uniquely creepy about Facebook , and i want nothing to do with it .

 

It's true that Facebook is more upfront about it. YouTube analytics for example is monitoring not only the videos you watch but for how long, where you skipped and repeated, if you've skipped ads or not... to determine whether you'd be interested in related product. Then google maps will cross reference your travel history. Google assistant is listening to everything you say through your phone and also cross reference. Then they'll push those ads to Google affiliated sites which are everyone. All done automatically by their "Deep Learning" AI.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Taz1004

[Rick50]

You haven't seen any evidence, because it's quite well hidden, even though not secret. Also, you are not in the market for the products they sell. YOU are the product. And data about you, is being sold to others, without you getting a cut of the profits... you just benefit from sharing photos and videos of dumb people having accidents at the beach.

 

This is one of the biggest profit centers right now, and your data is being sold to marketing companies, corporations, political campaigns, foreign governments very curious about how people like you in your country feel about this issue that issue and that foreign govt of the foreign nation. Why? Because your opinion MATTERS TO THEM. Matters a lot. And they want to know what you think, and how you might be persuaded to change your opinion to their benefit.

 

But gimme muh VR goggles...

 

Stop and think really very very hard about just why FB wants SO BADLY for you to sign up for FB, and are holding VR hostage until you do... it's less friendly and more stalkery, the more you consider it.

 

Think about how all the giant tech companies are also actually BUYING your credit card sales data... why might they do that ?

 

Me personally, if a company wants to sell me VR or AR, ok, I'll buy when I like the performance and pricetag. But if you want to stalk me 24/7/365, then nah brah, I don't want it that bad. Besides, what happens to my ability to use my Fakebook VR gogggles if the govt breaks up FB due to antitrust, privacy violations and such? Do they unlock it? Or do they lock it forever, out of spite for not protecting Bigbruh from Littlegovt ? How about I just buy from someone that just lets me use their hardware product without loggin onto this socialCrackmedia or that?

 

You'd never want to marry a woman without meeting her parents, without meeting her friends and brothers... but yet you share more than you'd ever share with any woman, with a faceless corporation that's the exact opposite of transparent, who does with information about you, who knows.

 

Look I'm not trying to get you to stop using social media, I just want you to start thinking about what it is they do with your data, and what they do to you and your friends. I do see that FB and others DO in fact have some beneficial things, like the ability to point out injustices, local used goods for sale market, informing you of this or that interest, bringing families together and such. And I'm also sure they provide even more benefits than I've seen and heard of. But I've also been hearing and reading a LOT about the not so good, the downsides in relationships, and the glimpses of seriously shady goings on.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Rick50

[Svsmokey]

It's true that Facebook is more upfront about it. YouTube analytics for example is monitoring not only the videos you watch but for how long, where you skipped and repeated, if you've skipped ads or not... to determine whether you'd be interested in related product. Then google maps will cross reference your travel history. Google assistant will listen for words you say through your phone and also cross reference. Then they'll push those ads to Google affiliated sites which are everyone. All done automatically by their "Deep Learning" AI.

 

Not sure what you mean by "upfront" . Here , that means "open" . Facebook is certainly not upfront by that definition . They have repeatedly been busted for doing something they shouldn't , claiming they had "fixed" the problem , only to be busted 3-6 months later for again doing the exact same thing .

 

This horse as largely left the barn . These sites have to pay for the services they offer somehow , and as consumers , we prefer the advertising/data-collection model to that of subscriptions .

 

Still , i find Facebook to be uniquely creepy .

[Taz1004]

Not sure what you mean by "upfront" . Here , that means "open" . Facebook is certainly not upfront by that definition . They have repeatedly been busted for doing something they shouldn't , claiming they had "fixed" the problem , only to be busted 3-6 months later for again doing the exact same thing .

 

This horse as largely left the barn . These sites have to pay for the services they offer somehow , and as consumers , we prefer the advertising/data-collection model to that of subscriptions .

 

Still , i find Facebook to be uniquely creepy .

 

I meant more intrusive. When a salesman says he's "on commission" he's being upfront about it. I was implying that Facebook is that "upfront" about what their business model is which is collecting personal data. Whereas other companies are more stealthy.

 

And reason why Snowden case was significant was not "what" they use the data for. NSA said they used it for our safety so it shouldn't matter. But rather what it "could" be used for. Anyone with the access to that information can potentially use it for their personal purpose.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Taz1004

[eaglecash867]

Nope. I have never seen anybody but Facebook take it upon itself to make contact with those individuals on my behalf, as if it was me who did it. Only Facebook has done that so far, which is why it is one of the many security risks I have chosen to eliminate and not continue making things easy for them. Also, unlike many others, Facebook serves absolutely no useful purpose in my life. The only "social media" I participate in is this forum and one other...and neither one of them know a single thing about me that I haven't expressly allowed them to know. I'm not one of the many who feels that full disclosure is necessary on the internet. So many have the "I have nothing to hide" attitude which is what gets them into trouble.

[dburne]

As much as I have loved Oculus products and supported them fully, I have no problem at all now walking away from them.

Making FB a requirement to use their VR device did not sit well with me.

 

I sure hope I am well pleased with the Reverb G2.

[Rogue Trooper]

Face book is simply a huge NO for me.

It was no at the get go and it is no right now.

 

FB will be worthless within Zuckerbergs life time.

[Rick50]

 

FB will be worthless within Zuckerbergs life time.

 

 

 

Nope, I doubt that.

 

It'll be worthless far sooner than he passes away of old age!

 

 

:thumbup: :D

 

 

But seriously, I think it's not real clear it will dominate as it does today, in 10 years from now. I'd look to competitors, to future revelations of it's own behavior, possible future laws in many different countries, and changing trends among teenagers, to see it's future. And then there are the politicals of it, but I won't expand on that, as that goes well beyond the topic of flight simulations! If curious, just googl... no wait...just Bingit... hmm, is Netscape and Metacrawler still a thing? :D And where did I leave my Geocities web link anyway?

Edited October 14, 2020 by Rick50

[Rick50]

To be fair, it does have benefits too: saw a cat outside our back door, it was about -31 degrees Celcius (-23deg F) all that week, when i opened the door, it ran in, past the much larger barking dog, and started rubbing up on my leg, not out of friendliness but to warm up.

 

My cousin got on FB to see if a cat was missing... just 30 minutes later was reunited with the cat's human pets. Turns out, this cat was missing for A WEEK in that cold weather. Have no idea how it lived.

 

So as much as I criticize FB, it's hard to argue with reuniting in just 30 minutes!

[shagrat]

To be fair, it does have benefits too: saw a cat outside our back door, it was about -31 degrees Celcius (-23deg F) all that week, when i opened the door, it ran in, past the much larger barking dog, and started rubbing up on my leg, not out of friendliness but to warm up.

 

My cousin got on FB to see if a cat was missing... just 30 minutes later was reunited with the cat's human pets. Turns out, this cat was missing for A WEEK in that cold weather. Have no idea how it lived.

 

So as much as I criticize FB, it's hard to argue with reuniting in just 30 minutes!

All that would be possible without Facebook requiring you to give them access to more personal and private information, than you would likely share with your doctor or lawyer...

[SkipCarey]

Ive Read somewhere that the cameras also track and record what ever in the area of its use and makes note of the products the user has in reach of the cameras to target advertising,Now this is my Opinion but I think its just a matter of time we will see forced ad viewing much like youtube and all the rest, before your DCS or whatever is allowed to load and proceed.

[Svsmokey]

https://uploadvr.com/facebook-account-quest-paperweight/

Now it seems a photo id is required to resolve login problems .

[gavagai]

What a bunch of man-drama. Who gives a crap if you have to have a facebook account? You don't have to use it except to use the quest 2. Big deal.

[wiz_of_wuz]

Already bagged the Facebook trash....... Stand for something or stay sitting...........

[shagrat]

What a bunch of man-drama. Who gives a crap if you have to have a facebook account? You don't have to use it except to use the quest 2. Big deal.

You do not need to use it. After account creation you have given them legal permission to collect all the necessary information on you from all their partners, shops, websites (all websites that use fb-likes, fb-login, not just fb itself) other people's facebook accounts, etc. and of course they are allowed to process and sell this data.

That's why some people consider "signing" the Facebook terms of use, that is required for the account, not to be in their best interest. :dunno:

Little anecdote: The dutch city of Amsterdam had a census in the early 20th century way before WW II. Nobody had any man-drama in coming up when they answered questions about their marriage status, jobs, religion... They had nothing to hide and nobody questioned why they should put their religion to help in city planning. A couple decades later the Netherlands were overrun by Hitler's army, Amsterdam taken. It took them just 3 days to identify all the Jewish families and their addresses, as they were so nicely catalogued in the city archive with the religion conveniently marked.

These people's parents or grandparents maybe should have had a bit more man-drama and question why it is necessary to collect very personal information and for what purpose...

Just a lesson from the past... A sad one!

[RealDCSpilot]

Little anecdote: The dutch city of Amsterdam had a census in the early 20th century way before WW II. Nobody had any man-drama in coming up when they answered questions about their marriage status, jobs, religion... They had nothing to hide and nobody questioned why they should put their religion to help in city planning. A couple decades later the Netherlands were overrun by Hitler's army, Amsterdam taken. It took them just 3 days to identify all the Jewish families and their addresses, as they were so nicely catalogued in the city archive with the religion conveniently marked.

These people's parents or grandparents maybe should have had a bit more man-drama and question why it is necessary to collect very personal information and for what purpose...

Just a lesson from the past... A sad one!

 

+1

This is simply the best analogy i've read on that matter.

 

A complete other point is, if you are paying FB for the HMD itself any money, you are a fool. It's like paying a vampire's dentist to make sure he can put his teeth into you, the best way possible to drink your blood. They claim that it is subsidized, that they loose money selling it at this "low" pricing. The truth is, they will earn multiple times the money over the years from the data you will provide. If you are really willing to do that, the HMD should be free. Look at their revenue just for the 2nd quarter of this year: https://www.statista.com/statistics/422035/facebooks-quarterly-global-revenue/

It's crazy how much money the business with personal data is able to generate and you are paying on top of it to put a parasite on your forehead.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Alec Delorean

[shagrat]

They claim that it is subsidized, that they loose money selling it at this "low" pricing.

Makes you wonder how the competition is able to produce and sell their VR-Headsets? ...by the way, there are enough and absolutely competitive products available. So the more customers call that bluff, the better.

They don't have to subsidize the Oculus products, they want(!) to subsidize it, to get you to accept the forced account...

I can just highly recommend to think about the implications of Facebook knowing exactly when, what, how long you play what game, during say your nights rest period, playing games that have a certain awareness in the media/society and may be offering an "Employee rating service" to business in the future, detailing how you like to spend your time off. Not possible, due to legal restrictions? Well, today maybe, tomorrow may be different...

[Fri13]

A couple decades later the Netherlands were overrun by Hitler's army, Amsterdam taken. It took them just 3 days to identify all the Jewish families and their addresses, as they were so nicely catalogued in the city archive with the religion conveniently marked.

 

Bad argument. Hitler card shown.

 

If you want to know how many jews were nearby, it was possible just to march to closest synagoga and get the information. As jews has always hold very accurate census because they do keep a very accurate track and record of every jew in the world. Jews are the exemplary how to do it. Christians are no different, after all their pagan wars. Your argument was that without the Dutch records the Jews would have been more hidden or the task would have been more difficult or challenging, and it is false.

 

For hundreds of years (thousands really) the records has been kept.

How many remembers that Zuckerberg happens to be a Jew. Same thing with Google founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin. Larry Ellison, the founder of the founder of the Oracle (database company) is Jewish. Steve Ballmer, Michael Dell.....

 

The world business is operated by the Jews. Banks, technology corporations, politics etc etc.

“as of 2017, Nobel Prizes have been awarded to 902 individuals, of whom 203 or 22.5% were Jews, although the total Jewish population comprises less than 0.2% of the world’s population. This means the percentage of Jewish Nobel laureates is at least 112.5 times or 11,250% above average.”

 

Do not think that Jews are unknown among the people they live. They are extremely influential people with high skills.

 

So the funny part really is, that it is the Jews who really want all the information, all the details, everything handed to them, so they can benefit from it by the business.

It is as well no wonder that when it comes to rich and powerful people, they are those who seeks by any means to hide their money through various means so no one could find who owns what and how.

That is why Wikileaks and cases like Panama Papers, Snowden etc are important.

 

People forget that privacy doesn't end to Facebook, Google, Microsoft etc. That is just one of the public sides of it. If you carry anything electronic with you, you are tracked, followed and recorded by any means, regardless do you happen to have a Facebook account or not, a Facebook device or not. There is no hiding.

 

How many here is ready to leave their mobile phones away? Not to open it at various times? Not to use it to transmit a information of any kind? How many avoids sharing pictures or even taking pictures with their cameras and such?

 

There has been studies how easy it is to get a enough personal information from the people just by offering a free candy, that can be used to track the person, create new bank accounts with credit in their names, buy cars and even buildings to their names.

 

It is very scary stuff, and Quest 2 is very little about that, but it is just a one nail more in the coffing of the privacy.

[eaglecash867]

Wow. That's a whole lot of typing just to make it clear that the true meaning of the post you responded to went right over your head. It was an analogy of just how bad things can get when people willingly share "harmless" information, and those people in Amsterdam hadn't already had it proven to them just how devious and untrustworthy the people asking for the information were. If those people had continued to willingly share their religious preference AFTER Hitler had invaded and started making people "disappear", THAT would have been more like what we have today with Facebook. People know that they're bad news, and continue to justify sharing their lives with them because, "Well, other places are just as bad, so we might as well make it easy for them". See? Sounds silly when someone says it like that, doesn't it? Yet, that is EXACTLY what some people are saying in this thread. :doh:

 

B

 

How many here is ready to leave their mobile phones away? Not to open it at various times? Not to use it to transmit a information of any kind? How many avoids sharing pictures or even taking pictures with their cameras and such?

 

You can count me as one of those people who would walk away from my mobile phone in a heartbeat. If my company didn't pay for mine, I wouldn't have one. I'm old-school. I lived quite easily without one until 2008, and to this day it doesn't get used outside of business hours. As far as pictures go, well, they can have all the avionics equipment and data plate pictures they want. Kind of a strange fetish for someone to have, but, whatever floats their boat I guess.

 

:D

Edited October 18, 2020 by eaglecash867

[shagrat]

Wow. That's a whole lot of typing just to make it clear that the true meaning of the post you responded to went right over your head. It was an analogy of just how bad things can get when people willingly share "harmless" information, and those people in Amsterdam hadn't already had it proven to them just how devious and untrustworthy the people asking for the information were. If those people had continued to willingly share their religious preference AFTER Hitler had invaded and started making people "disappear", THAT would have been more like what we have today with Facebook. People know that they're bad news, and continue to justify sharing their lives with them because, "Well, other places are just as bad, so we might as well make it easy for them". See? Sounds silly when someone says it like that, doesn't it? Yet, that is EXACTLY what some people are saying in this thread. :doh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can count me as one of those people who would walk away from my mobile phone in a heartbeat. If my company didn't pay for mine, I wouldn't have one. I'm old-school. I lived quite easily without one until 2008, and to this day it doesn't get used outside of business hours. As far as pictures go, well, they can have all the avionics equipment and data plate pictures they want. Kind of a strange fetish for someone to have, but, whatever floats their boat I guess.

 

 

 

:D

It is not even about what we are willing to share "with Facebook". It is about what can happen, if any unnecessary information that you consider "harmless" is processed, combined, misused or exploited.

And we have lots of more current examples where this already happened... But it is a free world and of course everyone is free to choose, yet I recommend to choose wisely and informed. :)

[Rick50]

Ive Read somewhere that the cameras also track and record what ever in the area of its use and makes note of the products the user has in reach of the cameras to target advertising,Now this is my Opinion but I think its just a matter of time we will see forced ad viewing much like youtube and all the rest, before your DCS or whatever is allowed to load and proceed.

 

 

 

Ok, pipper on target, pickle... now AA mode, what bearing are those Migs inbound? Select AMRAAM, drop Chaff, ECM on, DOWMLOAD RAID SHITTY STORIES CONDUCT RAIDS WITH FRIENDS ON COOL LOOKING ENEMY TOWNS WITH CRAPPY AI. SET THE GAME TO "GRIND" TO AVOID BORRING EVENTS TO GET A DECENT SCORE TO GET BETTER WPNS YOU SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN ON DAY ! Archers inbound flare flare flare, Boom! Eject... ok reset mission.

 

:thumbup:

 

Ok throttle up, salute, pitch up, gear up, speed up, flaps up, where's my wingman? Oh noes, Flankers bouncing us, dive to notch DO YOU GO ONLINE WITHOUT PROTECTION? GET NERD VPN HALF OFF THIS MONTH, WATCH MOVIES FROM THAILAND, DOWMLOAD QUESTIONABLE CONTENT FROM PIRATESCOVE, PUT A RED FLAG ON YOUR ACTIVITIES! Oh crap, eject! Water's too close eject!

 

:pilotfly:

 

I guess you guys heard about Playstation recording listening to every word you say...

 

 

...so yea. How about the kid's MickeyMoose clock... that features microphones ... comming this Winter season

Edited October 18, 2020 by Rick50