DCS: F-15C

[Gunfreak]

I've used the F15E in a fake Desert storm environment. Also tired to use it in 70/80 Israel-Syria based conflict as long as you are just firing of Sparrow it kinda works. But given how DCS AI works you inevitably end up in a dogfight situation and then the big fat mudhen isn't great even against 60s and 70s Red force planes or even F1 Mirages. 

[falcon_120]

Now i dont remember if i already gave my 2 cent, but just in case... Yes i would definetely buy an F15C at full price.


i'd like to have jhmcs and aim9x but id even buy an F15A for cold war scenarios.

Enviado desde mi ELE-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[streakeagle]

I would buy the F-15C, but I would prefer the F-15A. But I prefer flying aircraft that have no fly-by-wire and no MFDs. The F-15E is a reasonable substitute for an F-15C with the CFTs installed, which performs more like a slatted F-4E due to the extra weight/drag. If RAZBAM would change their mind and let the F-15E fly with the CFTs removed, it would be an excellent substitute for the F-15C.

 

[F-2]

37 minutes ago, streakeagle said:

I would buy the F-15C, but I would prefer the F-15A. But I prefer flying aircraft that have no fly-by-wire and no MFDs. The F-15E is a reasonable substitute for an F-15C with the CFTs installed, which performs more like a slatted F-4E due to the extra weight/drag. If RAZBAM would change their mind and let the F-15E fly with the CFTs removed, it would be an excellent substitute for the F-15C.

 

None of the A B C D or E versions of the Eagle use fly by wire, only the very latest versions derived from QA have fly by wire. An A would probably feel similar to the FC3 C but with some differences because of different engines and weight.

[buceador]

On 12/9/2020 at 3:37 PM, sparrow88 said:

These polls are useless. Most people will always click yes for a new aircraft.

"Most" agreed, I clicked No.

[Buzz313th]

Keep em coming..

 

 

[streakeagle]

13 minutes ago, F-2 said:

None of the A B C D or E versions of the Eagle use fly by wire, only the very latest versions derived from QA have fly by wire. An A would probably feel similar to the FC3 C but with some differences because of different engines and weight.

The improved F100 engines are digitally controlled the F-15A has the early F100 which requires more careful management like the F-14A with the TF30. In fact, the special power switch in the F-15A is functional, whereas the digitally controlled F100 no longer needs the switch as its function is automatically scheduled to provide as much power as possible for the current flight conditions. Aside from the engine response, I agree the flight controls would feel and respond the same. But the F-15C also has a slightly more digital cockpit than the A as well as a much more advance radar capability due to increased computer performance and memory. So there is a pronounced difference between the F-15A and F-15C employment in a combat environment, not unlike the differences between the F-16A and F-16C. I would much rather fly the F-15A and F-16A than the later variants, as they are much closer to the 1950s/1960s fighters I prefer to fly.

The F-15A is actually a form of parallel hybrid control, combining mechanical inputs from the pilot with electronic inputs from the CAS, it is derived from a similar system in the F-4. The big box under the B-8 stick grip in both the F-4 and F-15 is a pressure transducer similar to the F-16's stick. That transducer signal is fed into the control system. It is an early form of fly-by-wire but maintains mechanical connections to the hydraulic systems rather than using electric actuators and pure computer signal control. It isn't considered true fly-by-wire as the mechanical inputs from the pilot are required for full control capability. But as long as the CAS system is engaged, the transducer and flight computer regulating the controls surfaces very similar to true fly-by-wire.

One aspect of F-4 control system I prefer is the artificial feel system. Both speed g-load cause stick pressure similar to the forces felt when the stick is directly connected to control surfaces using an air intake and a bob weight to sense speed and g load. The F-15 CAS has a much simpler electrically powered artificial feel system that doesn't provide anywhere near as much feedback of the F-4. The F-16 sidestick does not have any force feedback.

After the Israeli F-15 landed with a missing wing, McDonnell studied the situation to make it possible to retrofit the F-15's control system with automatic adaptation to missing flight surfaces. That could not be accomplished with a traditional mechanical/hydraulic controls system like the F-86. So, it may not be officially recognized as fly-by-wire, but just as other fly-by-wire aircraft, when the CAS is engaged, the computer evaluates the flight inputs, then decides what control surfaces to move, how far to move them, and how fast to move them.

The F-15 Flight Control System (f15sim.com)

F-15 Longitudinal Control (f15sim.com)

[Kev2go]

14 hours ago, Beirut said:

 

You are absolutely correct.

 

...and I'm still happy we have an FF F-15E instead of the F-15C. 

yes of course because "multirole" sells. people want to carry precision and/or smart bombs for strike to eradicate an entire objective point and shoot down aircraft in one go.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Kev2go

[Exorcet]

1 minute ago, Kev2go said:

yes of course because "multirole" sells. people want to carry precision and/or smart bombs for strike and shoot down aircraft in one go

 

Multirole does sell, but it air to air probably isn't far behind if at all. Growling Sidewider's channel is pretty big and I'm pretty sure all the content there is air to air. Not to mention, all the dogfight servers online.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

Multirole does sell, but it air to air probably isn't far behind if at all. Growling Sidewider's channel is pretty big and I'm pretty sure all the content there is air to air. Not to mention, all the dogfight servers online.

He does do the odd ground attack video.

But going from comments on his videos. It seems like a decent amount of his viewership are none DCS players. Many seem to have only a cursory interest and knowledge about aircraft and air warfare.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Gunfreak

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Kev2go said:

yes of course because "multirole" sells. people want to carry precision and/or smart bombs for strike to eradicate an entire objective point and shoot down aircraft in one go.

 

 

Not multirole for me. Just beeg badabooms for A2G. That's what the Strike Eagle is all about. 

"Boom!"

[henshao]

During the prototype phase for the F-15, one Eagle landed with the stick's roll linkages completely severed. The pilot didn't even notice. With the CAS system operational, the F-15 is effectively partial fly-by-wire, only the ailerons are exclusively under pilot control

[Kalasnkova74]

The challenge with a FF F-15C module comes down to two words: business case.

show of hands- who here is prepared to drop $80 on a FF Su-25 when you can get one for less than 1/5th of that bill? Crickets, right. Because that’s the value proposition of a full fidelity F-15C to non-enthusiasts.
 

The studio would spend years and capital costs developing a more detailed version of a module you can already buy. Yeah, FF > FC3- but is it $55 better? Probably not in the minds of most DCS players. Add in the F-15E which can do A2G + BVR air combat & the business case totally evaporates. 

[Exorcet]

36 minutes ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

The challenge with a FF F-15C module comes down to two words: business case.

show of hands- who here is prepared to drop $80 on a FF Su-25 when you can get one for less than 1/5th of that bill? Crickets, right. Because that’s the value proposition of a full fidelity F-15C to non-enthusiasts.
 

The studio would spend years and capital costs developing a more detailed version of a module you can already buy. Yeah, FF > FC3- but is it $55 better? Probably not in the minds of most DCS players. Add in the F-15E which can do A2G + BVR air combat & the business case totally evaporates. 

This hasn't stopped multiple versions of other aircraft from existing in DCS before, and unlike those other planes the F-15 has the advantage of being half finished. The flight model is basically done. The animations for switches was at least started. Developing a F-15C may be one of the most cost effective ways to get a FF module because of its unique situation and that could possibly be passed on owners of the FC3 version. It's also capable of A2G and is a less complex aircraft in that role when compared to the E, which is a selling point for some. Not to mention it's pretty much cut and paste for existing FC3 content, meaning it could have more gameplay content than the E despite coming later.

Obviously this is just arm chair market research, but that's really all we're going to get in this thread anyway. It's just as easy to make a case for the plane as it is against.

 

For that matter the Su-25 isn't a hopeless proposition either, far from it. FF is a selling point of DCS. It's the draw of the sim, not a side note.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Exorcet

[Buzz313th]

Keep voting...  

 

 

[Buzz313th]

1 hour ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

The challenge with a FF F-15C module comes down to two words: business case.

show of hands- who here is prepared to drop $80 on a FF Su-25 when you can get one for less than 1/5th of that bill? Crickets, right. Because that’s the value proposition of a full fidelity F-15C to non-enthusiasts.
 

The studio would spend years and capital costs developing a more detailed version of a module you can already buy. Yeah, FF > FC3- but is it $55 better? Probably not in the minds of most DCS players. Add in the F-15E which can do A2G + BVR air combat & the business case totally evaporates. 

The ratio of the poll is almost 4 to 1.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Buzz313th

[MAXsenna]

The challenge with a FF F-15C module comes down to two words: business case.
show of hands- who here is prepared to drop $80 on a FF Su-25 when you can get one for less than 1/5th of that bill? Crickets, right. Because that’s the value proposition of a full fidelity F-15C to non-enthusiasts.
 
The studio would spend years and capital costs developing a more detailed version of a module you can already buy. Yeah, FF > FC3- but is it $55 better? Probably not in the minds of most DCS players. Add in the F-15E which can do A2G + BVR air combat & the business case totally evaporates. 

You might be right, while I would assume they would stop selling the FC3 versions when an FF module was inbound, and probably give a discount for existing users, so all content could be converted like @Exorcet suggests!
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[cfrag]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:07 PM, Rudel_chw said:

I'm the kind of user that purchases almost every module, so I already have FC3 and the 15E

You clearly are not thinking straight, dear @Rudel_chw!  You need to drop the 'almost'

I own the 15E, FC and the A-10C and A-10C II. And I don't have a problem, I can quit any time...

Edited December 2, 2023 by cfrag

[Rudel_chw]

2 hours ago, cfrag said:

You clearly are not thinking straight, dear @Rudel_chw!  You need to drop the 'almost'

I own the 15E, FC and the A-10C and A-10C II. And I don't have a problem, I can quit any time...

 

Yes, DCS can be truly addicting  ... I have tried to compensate it a bit, by abandoning every other game that I used to play/purchase, including my beloved Eurotruck ... nowadays the only game I have on my PC is DCS   

[Gunfreak]

33 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Yes, DCS can be truly addicting  ... I have tried to compensate it a bit, by abandoning every other game that I used to play/purchase, including my beloved Eurotruck ... nowadays the only game I have on my PC is DCS   

Wife has been sick several weeks, and I haven't been able play DCS for like a week and a half. I've made two missions to make videos out of, but haven't been able play them and I'm getting serious withdrawal! I'm bearly holding on by watching dcs videos on YouTube.

[Kalasnkova74]

11 hours ago, Buzz313th said:

The ratio of the poll is almost 4 to 1.

 

 

 

The topic is about a business case, not general interest. It’s all well and good that 75% of sampled respondents would spend money on a module. But for the poll to answer the question of a business case, you’d have to ask this:

”Would you spend $80 to buy a FF F-15 module if you can buy the FC3 version for $25?”

I suspect there won’t be 75% support on that.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Kalasnkova74

[Exorcet]

Upgrading the FC planes has been a popular request for a while. I don't think FC3 itself is even relevant. DCS is what it is because of highly detailed planes, not in spite of it. The MiG-29 is in the same boat as the Eagle and has a lot of support as well. Also in both cases, half the work (FM) is done. These could be the best value FF modules of them all.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

The topic is about a business case, not general interest. It’s all well and good that 75% of sampled respondents would spend money on a module. But for the poll to answer the question of a business case, you’d have to ask this:

”Would you spend $80 to buy a FF F-15 module if you can buy the FC3 version for $25?”

I suspect there won’t be 75% support on that.

 

I think many would.

[rob10]

4 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

The topic is about a business case, not general interest. It’s all well and good that 75% of sampled respondents would spend money on a module. But for the poll to answer the question of a business case, you’d have to ask this:

”Would you spend $80 to buy a FF F-15 module if you can buy the FC3 version for $25?”

I suspect there won’t be 75% support on that.

I don't see a business case for the F-15C, but I think you're completely wrong on this being a reason for that.  While I'm sure there is some cross-over, FC3 and FF are two very different markets, so there is likely a large percentage of people that WOULD by a FF F-15C module that WOULDN'T buy a FC3 version no matter the price.

[F-2]

You’re not going to answer a business case on the forums. I’m sure the majority of the people who buy modules never have even posted here. ED I imagine has their own method of getting that sort of data.