Is it worth to buy it now ?

[TobiasA]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Beirut:

My problem with the Viper is whether buying it simply provides "more of the same" as I already have the Hornet. An even on sale the Viper still a couple of dollars. That said, I'm not a nit picker for systems, either their function of state of completion. I just love the enjoyment of flying. Is the plane fun? Is it cool?

 

I guess I'm just wondering out loud if the flying fun and cool factor of the Viper is different enough from the Hornet to justify the purchase.

 

We have a bubble canopy, can go 9G on many A-A loadouts and Mach 1.4 with drop tanks (Mach 1.8 with many AA loadouts without tanks), we don't have submenus and submenus in other submenus, it is fast, easy and fun to fly, hard to spot and will be an awesome SEAD platform once it has the HTS / HAD.

Only thing on the viper is that there is little to no development on it currently since everyone is working on the hornet and all we get is stuff that can be copy-pasted onto the viper.

 

Owning the 14, 15, 16 and viggen, the hornet would be my slowest fixed-wing aircraft... Don't know about MiG-29 and Su-33 tho. Come join the viper gang, things are gonna be awesome once they finally finished that slow navy thing.

Edited April 24, 2021 by TobiasA

[Beirut]

3 hours ago, TobiasA said:

 

We have a bubble canopy, can go 9G on many A-A loadouts and Mach 1.4 with drop tanks (Mach 1.8 with many AA loadouts without tanks), we don't have submenus and submenus in other submenus, it is fast, easy and fun to fly, hard to spot and will be an awesome SEAD platform once it has the HTS / HAD.

Only thing on the viper is that there is little to no development on it currently since everyone is working on the hornet and all we get is stuff that can be copy-pasted onto the viper.

 

Owning the 14, 15, 16 and viggen, the hornet would be my slowest fixed-wing aircraft... Don't know about MiG-29 and Su-33 tho. Come join the viper gang, things are gonna be awesome once they finally finished that slow navy thing.

 

 

Good post. "That slow navy thing". 

 

I'm 60/40 to buying it. I have the 15 and the 18, and because I'm apparently insane, I have no interest in the 14. I like to watch them fly by, but the cockpit and systems blow zero hot air up my skirt.

 

The thing that might push me over the edge towards a purchase is the rocket-strapped-to-your-ass part of the equation. There is definitely a rock 'n roll aspect to the flying, as seen in the airshow video a few posts back. It's the "visceral" part of the flight that interests me more than the systems. That said, if I can blow chit up while whizzing around, all the better.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Beirut

[TobiasA]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Beirut:

 

Good post. "That slow navy thing". 

 

I'm 60/40 to buying it. I have the 15 and the 18, and because I'm apparently insane, I have no interest in the 14. I like to watch them fly by, but the cockpit and systems blow zero hot air up my skirt.

 

The thing that might push me over the edge towards a purchase is the rocket-strapped-to-your-ass part of the equation. There is definitely a rock 'n roll aspect to the flying, as seen in the airshow video a few posts back. It's the "visceral" part of the flight that interests me more than the systems. That said, if I can blow chit up while whizzing, all the better.

 

As for acceleration while this might get a bit less in future update, it will still have one of the best T/W ratios you can find, and it will always be fast. It has a rated limit of mach 1.4 with(!) drop tanks, easily goes above Mach 1.6 with a pure A-A loadout. If you got fuel of course, it's a bit thirsty if you go fast so you'll carry one or two drop tanks most of the time. But who am I to judge, if I run fast, I also get thirsty.

I don't have the hornet, but I think the Viper is easier in terms of switches and stuff. I lost interest in the 18 over the progress of the 16, and after the 14 I must say that naval ops are probably something I'll never really like, although the F-14 is really awesome as a plane. I'll probably go for RIO when I have to start and land on the boat, so I can go fast, pickle AIM-54s, and laugh at my pilot and mumble something with "kinetic energy" on his bad wire traps.

However, if you wanna go fast and blow stuff up while going fast:

- Stuff you wanna blow up is on the ground, and only on the ground, may float or be on land: Viggen

- Anywhere between sea level and angels 60, doesn't matter, as long as it is in the air, on land or at sea and not larger than the boat of some russian billionare: Viper

 

Really, the only downside I really have with the viper is its slow progress in early access. But they promised that they will switch over people from the hornet to the viper once the hornet is out of early access which is hopefully soon.

I am an F-16 fanboy, I guess. For everyone that didn't know yet, here we go.

 

[Xavven]

I think the F-15 is a little faster, but the Viper's bubble canopy gives a greater sense of speed at treetop level.

[Beirut]

And in the end, I'm passing on the F-16. It was close though. 

 

The killer was that I remembered I already have the F-5E. And with the 2.7 clouds, everything in the game feels new. So I fired up the F-5 - first time in a long time - threw in the cockpit mod, which really does make it look better, and I had myself a nice lightweight quick little plane to enjoy in the new clouds. The systems in the F-16 weren't the draw for me, it was more the agility and open cockpit. The F-5E cockpit feels much more open that the F-18, and the plane feels like a little hotrod. 

 

Nothing wrong with enjoying stuff you've already paid for I guess. And the $$$ I saved is either going on the Hind or the Mosquito. But I appreciate the positive feedback on the Viper questions.  

[SpaceMonkey037]

On 4/23/2021 at 7:46 PM, DemoVFW said:

Most of the missing things are not just “test pages”. To name just a couple very important functional things missing: Markpoints, Datalink, CRUS, VIP/VRP, etc... 

 

And not to mention: 

 

-The HSD is missing almost all of its functionality except for showing you waypoints. 

-HTS pod - one of the things that makes the viper special.

-Cursor bullseye on the FCR (why this hasn’t been added yet when own ship bullseye is displayed elsewhere?). BRAA calls don’t work if you aren’t located in the same spot as other flights hence the need for bullseye callouts. 
 

The F-16 is worth buying. But disagree the stuff missing avionics wise are just “test pages”.

 

Sorry for the late answer. The Markpoints aren't a big deal IRL as you would almost always have coordinates for the target location. Not having coordinates would introduce a big risk of friendly fire. Link16 is very bare bones I agree. CRUS is only really necessary for really long missions, you can use thumb rules just as well which will get you similar results. VIP/VRP are weapon delivery modes which are meant for a time where GPS wasn't available/less reliable. Chances are you would never use the modes IRL. 
The HSD isn't all that big of an issue itself, the problem is that we don't have most of the system the HSD work off of. But yes, HSD functionality would be a big improvement, but would also take a lot of time to develop. The HTS pod I don't have a saying in as I'm not a fan of SEAD/DEAD operations.
Cursor bullseye would be nice, but like I previously said, people have been flying without that information for years prior to having an HSD cursor. Using similar techniques as those pilots used is the way to work around the issue. Having cursor bullseye position would be very nice, not get me wrong, but it's not going to make or break the module.

[Myrsnipe]

The Viper is far from complete, but it is functional and fun in its current state.

[Harlikwin]

On 4/24/2021 at 5:33 AM, TobiasA said:

 

We have a bubble canopy, can go 9G on many A-A loadouts and Mach 1.4 with drop tanks (Mach 1.8 with many AA loadouts without tanks), we don't have submenus and submenus in other submenus, it is fast, easy and fun to fly, hard to spot and will be an awesome SEAD platform once it has the HTS / HAD.

Only thing on the viper is that there is little to no development on it currently since everyone is working on the hornet and all we get is stuff that can be copy-pasted onto the viper.

 

Owning the 14, 15, 16 and viggen, the hornet would be my slowest fixed-wing aircraft... Don't know about MiG-29 and Su-33 tho. Come join the viper gang, things are gonna be awesome once they finally finished that slow navy thing.

 

 

1. Realistic: the view is GREAT

2. Facepalm worthy... Thats "Broken" A CLEAN viper might do that, one with bags... LOFL NO.

3. Oh JFC, NO NO NO... Go look at a chart with a drag index... No I won't 1.16 myself, they are out there... 

4. Menus, submenus who needs those, real men go mach 3.0 with their hair on fire in the viper!

 

The other thing you DIDNT mention is that the Viper radar is laughably overperforming relative to every other radar in DCS. And that any actual downside to TWS isn't modeled in DCS. Not to mention other issues with radar/ECM etc.
 

LOL TLDR?

The viper is currently overperforming in a wide variety of ways. For A/A combat pretend its actually a late model F15...

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Steel Jaw]

I have the F5...never fly it.  Get the Viper.  Not finished of course but a fun ride for now.

[Sarge55]

Mower, you're missing out... GOTS on that F-5 bad boy.

[Beirut]

20 hours ago, Mower said:

I have the F5...never fly it.  Get the Viper.  Not finished of course but a fun ride for now.

 

The Viper looks great, but it's still $70 on sale, and with the Hind (maybe buy) and Mosquito (definitely buy) on the horizon it adds up fast. Looking at $200(ish) on planes in a short period for all of them. 

 

As mentioned, it was far more the feel of the plane I wanted than the integrated package of radars and weapons. I wanted a high visibility cockpit on a fast plane. Obviously the F5E lacks the speed, but it has a great feel to it. I'm glad I got back into it instead of spending the money on a complicated new plane that I would probably never learn more than 50% of. I'll get the Viper in a year or so when it's 50% off.

 

[Jester2138]

22 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

The viper is currently overperforming in a wide variety of ways.

Not in BFM where it really matters.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Jester2138

[Donglr]

I never understood the rational behind the question "should I buy this now or wait?". You simply have to answer the question "do I want to fly this thing or not?". If the answer is yes then buy it. What is the advantage of waiting? It will be more complete. But that is no advantage really. If you buy now and you like it now you will have fun now AND when it is more complete. If you don't like it now you will still have fun later. If you buy later you potentially missed out on the fun now and "only" get the fun later, same as if you would have bought already now and benched it for some time.

If you consider ever paying money for a module you would potentially like to fly to me it is all about maximizing fun POTENTIAL vs money.

The only valid reason in my mind for postponing a purchase (assuming you have the money in the first place) is if there is a potential monetary benefit in it. But just look at EDs price policy: a module will never be cheaper than during sale in its early access stage. The A10C is OLD (but a beauty and worth every penny) but you will not get it for $20 on sale, because it is a five-star module. So why wait? It will not get cheaper and all that could happen is that you don't like it now. But that is no loss really because you can still like it later.

[TobiasA]

Am 28.4.2021 um 03:13 schrieb Harlikwin:

 

1. Realistic: the view is GREAT

2. Facepalm worthy... Thats "Broken" A CLEAN viper might do that, one with bags... LOFL NO.

3. Oh JFC, NO NO NO... Go look at a chart with a drag index... No I won't 1.16 myself, they are out there... 

4. Menus, submenus who needs those, real men go mach 3.0 with their hair on fire in the viper!

 

The other thing you DIDNT mention is that the Viper radar is laughably overperforming relative to every other radar in DCS. And that any actual downside to TWS isn't modeled in DCS. Not to mention other issues with radar/ECM etc.
 

LOL TLDR?

The viper is currently overperforming in a wide variety of ways. For A/A combat pretend its actually a late model F15...

 

 

You do know Mach 1.4 is the official rated limit for those? 

Mach 1.8 with 2 heaters and 2 slammers... It has a DI of about 15 or so. 

You can even do that in that other sim if you don't carry a jammer. Yeah, maybe it is 1.7, I don't really care. You do need a few dozen miles for that tho. 

Once the FM rework is done you will still complain about the speed of the viper because it will only be slightly slower if people don't carry a jammer with a DI of about 35. 

And I really hope ED includes the rework in the next version so we can finally stop complaining about that FM issue because literally the whole F-16 section consists of it.

All I was talking about was a strength of the F-16, with or without the rework but everyone is so badly pissed about the Viper at this point that it doesn't make any sense to discuss anything about the F-16 anymore because it turns into an FM discussion. 

The F-16 sees no progress until the hornet is done, and we need to face it. We probably won't see anything before autumn this year. I am pissed too, but it won't change a thing to be too negative about reported and acknowledged bugs. 

I'm off to enjoy the stuff I bought from Heatblur. Wish they had done the Viper. 

[ThoWmas31]

you can't do nothing about the topcat , you can shit on viper, that was DCS players. Instead of force ED to optimise or do something better for that old game in term of UI UX design, dynamics campain, bring back a life at your game . 

[Beirut]

On 4/29/2021 at 4:18 AM, Donglr said:

I never understood the rational behind the question "should I buy this now or wait?". You simply have to answer the question "do I want to fly this thing or not?". If the answer is yes then buy it. What is the advantage of waiting? It will be more complete. But that is no advantage really. If you buy now and you like it now you will have fun now AND when it is more complete. If you don't like it now you will still have fun later. If you buy later you potentially missed out on the fun now and "only" get the fun later, same as if you would have bought already now and benched it for some time.

If you consider ever paying money for a module you would potentially like to fly to me it is all about maximizing fun POTENTIAL vs money.

The only valid reason in my mind for postponing a purchase (assuming you have the money in the first place) is if there is a potential monetary benefit in it. But just look at EDs price policy: a module will never be cheaper than during sale in its early access stage. The A10C is OLD (but a beauty and worth every penny) but you will not get it for $20 on sale, because it is a five-star module. So why wait? It will not get cheaper and all that could happen is that you don't like it now. But that is no loss really because you can still like it later.

 

Because cash is a factor. If it wasn't, we'd all hit the "buy everything now" button. But we have to weigh out the balance between costs, potential enjoyment, and the myriad of planes - existing and coming soon - to choose from. If the Hind and Mosquito were not on the horizon, and there was nothing new coming out until fall, I probably would have bought the Viper on Sale.

 

And most of us like to talk about planes and hear other people's opinions and maybe have a little back and forth. The other person might turn a phrase in such a fashion or provide that one bit of information that it rings a bell and sends you on your way to a purchase you'll be happy with. 

[Harlikwin]

On 4/28/2021 at 5:23 PM, Jester2138 said:

Not in BFM where it really matters.

 

 

I mean its more or less working like an F15 in BVR between its absurd overspeed when loaded and its eye of sauron radar. So I'd say those are major issues. In no world does the viper radar outrange the hornet or eagle for example, except for DCS. And you can routinely exceed the VNE with no ill effects. End result is people fly it like an F22 much to the detriment of the MP community. 

That being said, you are also right about its BFM performance being off.

[Harlikwin]

On 4/29/2021 at 6:25 AM, TobiasA said:

You do know Mach 1.4 is the official rated limit for those? 

Mach 1.8 with 2 heaters and 2 slammers... It has a DI of about 15 or so. 

You can even do that in that other sim if you don't carry a jammer. Yeah, maybe it is 1.7, I don't really care. You do need a few dozen miles for that tho. 

Once the FM rework is done you will still complain about the speed of the viper because it will only be slightly slower if people don't carry a jammer with a DI of about 35. 

And I really hope ED includes the rework in the next version so we can finally stop complaining about that FM issue because literally the whole F-16 section consists of it.

All I was talking about was a strength of the F-16, with or without the rework but everyone is so badly pissed about the Viper at this point that it doesn't make any sense to discuss anything about the F-16 anymore because it turns into an FM discussion. 

The F-16 sees no progress until the hornet is done, and we need to face it. We probably won't see anything before autumn this year. I am pissed too, but it won't change a thing to be too negative about reported and acknowledged bugs. 

I'm off to enjoy the stuff I bought from Heatblur. Wish they had done the Viper. 

 

Yeah, I have the charts... But doing 1.4 on the deck with a decent DI is currently possible, since I chase down basically anything and everything on the deck in the Viper. As is exceeding VNE (800 under 30k) with no ill effects (hey look I can do 9002kn, no problems!). And well, thats wrong... Mostly the Viper didn't fly over 600 with any reasonable load down low. 

I'm personally more annoyed with the eye of sauron radar we have on it, especially after the hornet got adjusted. No way an APG-68v5 outranges an APG-73 or APG-63, which is currently the case. And I'll be on Deka to fix the Jeff radar once the Vipers gets "fixed" too. ED needs to be more consistent in what they change and how. Its just like the whole missile fiasco, adjust one, and it breaks the rest.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Jester2138]

On 4/29/2021 at 1:18 AM, Donglr said:

I never understood the rational behind the question "should I buy this now or wait?". You simply have to answer the question "do I want to fly this thing or not?". If the answer is yes then buy it. What is the advantage of waiting? It will be more complete. But that is no advantage really. If you buy now and you like it now you will have fun now AND when it is more complete.

Not everyone is OK with spending money and then not getting what you paid for until two years later. Also, many people are deciding between multiple modules. For example, someone who equally wants the Tomcat and Viper but can only buy one should probably get the Tomcat.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Jester2138

[Skysurfer]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:39 PM, Harlikwin said:

 

Yeah, I have the charts... But doing 1.4 on the deck with a decent DI is currently possible, since I chase down basically anything and everything on the deck in the Viper. As is exceeding VNE (800 under 30k) with no ill effects (hey look I can do 9002kn, no problems!). And well, thats wrong... Mostly the Viper didn't fly over 600 with any reasonable load down low. 

I'm personally more annoyed with the eye of sauron radar we have on it, especially after the hornet got adjusted. No way an APG-68v5 outranges an APG-73 or APG-63, which is currently the case. And I'll be on Deka to fix the Jeff radar once the Vipers gets "fixed" too. ED needs to be more consistent in what they change and how. Its just like the whole missile fiasco, adjust one, and it breaks the rest.

 

 

 

 

The manual actually notes that the limit speeds of 800CAS below 30 block can be easily exceeded if not careful. Having spoked to a current Viper driver he said the same - there technically is no limit to how fast the jet will go (no, the canopy will not melt or break) and the engine won't get damaged. M1.3-1.35 can be and was flown in some instances and after a quick inspection by MX no damage to the airframe or engine was found. With wing tanks you are limited to 550CAS anyway, which you carry 99% of the time anyway. So even though the chart you can find online only goes to M1.2 at SL the jet can easily go faster physically. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Skysurfer

[Dee-Jay]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:18 AM, Donglr said:

I never understood the rational behind the question "should I buy this now or wait?". You simply have to answer the question "do I want to fly this thing or not?". If the answer is yes then buy it. What is the advantage of waiting? It will be more complete. But that is no advantage really. If you buy now and you like it now you will have fun now AND when it is more complete. If you don't like it now you will still have fun later. If you buy later you potentially missed out on the fun now and "only" get the fun later, same as if you would have bought already now and benched it for some time.

If you consider ever paying money for a module you would potentially like to fly to me it is all about maximizing fun POTENTIAL vs money.

The only valid reason in my mind for postponing a purchase (assuming you have the money in the first place) is if there is a potential monetary benefit in it. But just look at EDs price policy: a module will never be cheaper than during sale in its early access stage. The A10C is OLD (but a beauty and worth every penny) but you will not get it for $20 on sale, because it is a five-star module. So why wait? It will not get cheaper and all that could happen is that you don't like it now. But that is no loss really because you can still like it later.

 

Matter of point of view.

 

Personally, I perfectly knew what I was buying and wasn't expecting something really accurate ... My reasons are different than many ppl here. Do I regret: No. Do I enjoy it: No.

Maybe someday it will reach a descent level of accuracy (will have to be really patient). On the other hands, the cockpit 3D model is awesome and almost perfect. Unfortunately, it is not enough to make it an F-16.

[TobiasA]

Am 30.4.2021 um 16:39 schrieb Harlikwin:

 

Yeah, I have the charts... But doing 1.4 on the deck with a decent DI is currently possible, since I chase down basically anything and everything on the deck in the Viper. As is exceeding VNE (800 under 30k) with no ill effects (hey look I can do 9002kn, no problems!). And well, thats wrong... Mostly the Viper didn't fly over 600 with any reasonable load down low. 

I'm personally more annoyed with the eye of sauron radar we have on it, especially after the hornet got adjusted. No way an APG-68v5 outranges an APG-73 or APG-63, which is currently the case. And I'll be on Deka to fix the Jeff radar once the Vipers gets "fixed" too. ED needs to be more consistent in what they change and how. Its just like the whole missile fiasco, adjust one, and it breaks the rest.

 

 

 

 

It is not the flight model at this point being off by a large amount, it is the lack of VNE- but even then, this does not apply to a clean jet.
I'm just waiting for the fix below Mach 0.5 mainly, radar range won't hurt much with LINK16 because I'll still be able to support my missiles till the end and with the COAST mode it will not be worse than now in the range where it matters.
Slightly lower acceleration doesn't matter, as well as a slightly slower end speed.

It will be considerably better after the rework...

 

[skywalker22]

Wanted to buy it today, since they stated "up until 2nd of May", but I guess I was too late. Discount has gone. Next time around.

[Lace]

22 hours ago, TobiasA said:

 

 it is the lack of VNE-

 

 

What do you mean by lack of Vne?

[TobiasA]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Lace:

 

What do you mean by lack of Vne?

It is simply not modelled. You have no wing flutter, no hung ordnance by overspeeding your AG ordnance, no failed stations or ripped fuel tanks du to over G.