Reviews...in depth?

[Heatseeker2K3]

How about a.i. controled vehicles? The screenies at the DCS site show a very generous amount of these, are all of them included?

I look forward to try the editor :) .

[Ryujin]

@GG:Triming seems to have been the issue, I don't know how I missed that :doh:

 

@Heatseeker: there's quite a lot of vehicles, many more than in those screens :smilewink:

[IvanK]

The LockOn FC White arc around the cockpit whilst taxying still lives

[deviletk]

Nice quick review Koriel!

 

Now i know this computer is boned trying to run BS on it lol.

 

E8600 OC, 4gb 1333mhz, gtx280 i hope it will make it run somewhat with that. The smoke from the flares look really tasty even in LO, but they are performance hungry. Thinking how well everything else in LO flows, the smoke could be better tweaked. But it sounds fun, cant wait.

 

Regards

Alex

[EvilBivol-1]

The LockOn FC White arc around the cockpit whilst taxying still lives

Engine limitation. Not possible to really fix without deep modification to graphics engine's LOD system.

[Heatseeker2K3]

 

@Heatseeker: there's quite a lot of vehicles, many more than in those screens :smilewink:

 

Sweet, thanks alot for all your feedback :) .

[Havner]

Not sure what's going on with your tests against the B-52 and A-10. Possibly bugs.

 

I think he's referring to objects on the airport. There are several planes/helicopters that seems to be undestructable. I can confirm that. Just run Poligon mission for example and try to destroy nearby Hinds or Su-25. I didn't manage to.

[GGTharos]

Glad I could help. If/when you can, read the section about stabilization and autopilot ;) That should explain everything.

 

@GG:Triming seems to have been the issue, I don't know how I missed that :doh:

[leafer]

Thanks for the mini reviews. I want this game Goddamnit!

[Koriel]

Its certainly worth every ruble/dollar/euro theyare going to ask for it.

 

I already have a copy, and was thinking about buying some more from russia, to give away/keep whatever. This ofcourse being a seperate action from buying the english version with a nice manual.

 

Like someone said earlier, there is a lot of legacy stuff still in DCS:BS, poor graphic performance with flares and stuff. The engine could really use an overhaul.

 

When I have time I will look into AI behaviour. This has always been a sore point in flanker2 and later. It should be interesting to note how helicopters behave now. From what I recall they behaved very stupidly.

 

One other thing I noticed, and Mark can perhaps shed a light on that, we both fly. When you get winds from ATC or the met office, they always give you the wind in a format like 270@7kts, meaning the wind is FROM the west at 7 knots. In the editor when I plan on some wind I have to use the wind pointer in reverse. Nothing major, it's been like that for years, don't like it though.

 

BTW, found another graphic glitch, landed the chopper on the Kutznetsov at night. With only my rotating beacon on and looked at it from the outside.. The deck was not illuminated, but the side of the ship was !!.. When I getback home later I will attach a pic here.

[159th_Viper]

...and it works quite well for MP buddy lasing...assuming you punch in the correct laser code. ;)

 

 

Excellent News!

 

Now that's something I completely missed to now - ML's - Excellent Indeed :gun_rifle:

 

 

:D

[Vati]

A last note, second monitor is a 15', have not been able to get the shkval running on that. havn't really really tried yet, but heard through the grapevine that it won't work on Vista ( Now that's not very smart is it? )

Multi-monitors work on Vista with a little workaround. The trick is to run BS in windowed mode instead of fullscreen. Then you specify resolutions for each output via lua files.

First you need to make a custom width resolution [main monitor width res + ( second monitor width res * 2); x2 is because BS uses 3 monitors by default, so you need to offset for second width to make it look correctly] in options.lua, before you move on to setup each output via custom lua definition file under monitorsetup folder.

 

Hopefully this will get you on track to experiment with your own setup...

[Doggy]

FPS was around 30 with everything maxed out and water = 1 (lua file) in an single a/c mission low ceilings and rain. feels smooth. I have a feeling that it's performance should be better on my machine.

 

Hi Koriel,

In your screenshots I see that setting for water has an empty filed. What does it mean? It's because you have configured it bu lua file? What is a difference between this setting by lua and GUI?

 

Well in the mean time I find particular answer in the RU forum. Settings for water can be

0 - general pattern

1 - Poor water quality

2 - Normal

3 - High

 

If I understood well, only Normal and High are available in GUI, right?

Edited October 31, 2008 by Doggy

[Koriel]

Hi Koriel,

In your screenshots I see that setting for water has an empty filed. What does it mean? It's because you have configured it bu lua file? What is a difference between this setting by lua and GUI?

 

Well in the mean time I find particular answer in the RU forum. Settings for water can be

0 - general pattern

1 - Poor water quality

2 - Normal

3 - High

 

If I understood well, only Normal and High are available in GUI, right?

 

Yes you are correct, NORMAl and HIGH are available. I used water=1 on advice of a friend. I really don't like the water much in LockOn / BS, way too shiney. I fly on a regular basis, and water NEVER looks like that.. so turning it down seems like the next best thing.

[Koriel]

Multi-monitors work on Vista with a little workaround. The trick is to run BS in windowed mode instead of fullscreen. Then you specify resolutions for each output via lua files.

First you need to make a custom width resolution [main monitor width res + ( second monitor width res * 2); x2 is because BS uses 3 monitors by default, so you need to offset for second width to make it look correctly] in options.lua, before you move on to setup each output via custom lua definition file under monitorsetup folder.

 

Hopefully this will get you on track to experiment with your own setup...

 

Thank you, actually using the Shkval in cockpit works well for me, I just use a zoom dial if I need it. Was experimenting with it because I usually want to try everything possible, whether I am going to use it or not. And since I am running Vista X64, I have gotten used to the fact that some things just won't work on my system. ( Nothing serious, and for other things I am running a XP Pro Virtual machine)

But When I have time I will take a look at it.

[MBot]

Can anyone already comment on the AI of ground units? Do ground units still engage any threat within range instantly, or is there now some kind of reaction time or surprise effect? Do pop-up attacks from behind cover work? Do ground units with visualy guided weapons employ volume fire tactics against moving air targets? Also how inteligent do you AI wingman behave?

 

Looking forward to test that stuff myselfe, but for now I would appreciate some input.

[Duke49th]

Koriel, what additions would you suggest for Options?

 

I'm not Koriel...but:

 

(Settings you can make in the options.lua - thanks to the russian players/forum)

 

-To be able to turn off the volumetric light effect for low performance hardware.

["lights"] = 1,

-And also to be able to completley turn off the shadow.

["shadows"] = 0

-To be able to reduce smoke density or what ever the setting does. I know it turns off the Rotor downwash effect and also it seems that it reduce the density of smoke in general(?), not sure.

["effects"] = 2

-To be able to turn off the water effects at all.

["water"] = 1

I also fixed the fps to 30fps(in the graphics.cfg). Don't know what it really does, but it is a tipp in the russian "performance tipps" Forum...so I did it.

MaxFPS = 30;

I also set the renderer from "DXrenderer.dll" to "ati2dvag.dll" in the graphics.cfg - also a tipp from the russian Forum.

Renderer = "ati2dvag.dll";

With these settings, it runs very well on my rig. No more extreme fps hits when firing a Vikhr when Shkval Monitor is turned on and no more extreme fps hits when hovering a few feets/meters off the ground(because the rotor down wash is turned off).

[Koriel]

What's with the AI behaviour ?

 

This is something I have looked at since flanker 1.0, the way the Ai behaves in normal flight.

 

I made three missions.

 

1. A Hind coming in for landing:

From a distance out it starts a slow descent towards the middle of the airfield. Then it joins very abruptly a very close in downwind. Turning final it extends its gear and then flies all the way down the runway at about 100m to make a rolling touchdown at the end of the runway. Then it taxies off and goes all the way down again to park at the apron next to the touchdownpoint of the runway he used. here we see something not very smart, why fly all the way down the runway while he parks next to the beginning? It's because All AI a/c vacate at the end. No matter what.

 

2. 4 Ship Flankers and 4 ship MiG23 coming in for landing...

- Quite a ways out all the flankers extend their gear and make some turns.. When they are on final 2 continue and the other two go in full AB and make some turns again... 1st pair lands, and comes to a halt at about 30-40% of the runway. #1 slowly contnues to taxy to the very end, #2 stops (!) and after a little while follows #1.

At the same time the 4 ship MiG's is coming in, they do about the same as the flankers, and 1st pair lands, followed by the flankers second pair. Suprisingly the flankers come in while the MiG's are still taxying.. and they land in sequence !! ( finally)

 

3. Mig 29 coming in to land at about a 90 degree angle to the runway. I ran the mission twice with an 180 degree chance in wind direction. Fortunately this time around the MiG schose the right runway! Improvement !

 

Observations, there still is no semblance at all of any structured traffic pattern for landing. ( years and years ago I already send in a proposal to make it go a bit smoother). AI uses AB indiscriminately. Runways is occupied for way too long, traffic should vacate the runway ASAP. When there is some real action going on you might have a dozen or so a/c coming back for recovery, and a dozen going out again. I hope that for future engine enhancements they are going to think about things like that. Falcon4 already did a way better job 10 years ago..

 

I am a bit dissappointed in this area. I like to build missions with some activity around you to give it a semblance of a "active and full" world. Sadly the way the AI behaves now makes it a joke, and using AI to create a busy environment is not possible.

[Glowing_Amraam]

You shouldn't expect Black Shark to have *everything*, but it's the beginning of a brand new series. It will evolve and improve as each new module is released. ;)

[Ryujin]

Can anyone already comment on the AI of ground units? Do ground units still engage any threat within range instantly, or is there now some kind of reaction time or surprise effect? Do pop-up attacks from behind cover work? Do ground units with visualy guided weapons employ volume fire tactics against moving air targets? Also how inteligent do you AI wingman behave?

 

Looking forward to test that stuff myselfe, but for now I would appreciate some input.

 

It seems so, I've flown over ground units before by accident and they didn't start shooting until after I'd passed over. Few seconds delay. Also seen similar when I popped up to shoot at a MANPADS team, not sure if they were maybe reloading, I might do a quick structured test of that later. As far as AA tactics employed by ground units, most do have fire control of some kind, even if its not guided munitions or radar controled. They tend to fire bursts of fire at you, but not really hold down the trigger as you pass over. you'll notice they will lase you to range before firing and most wester MBTs/PCs will put some fairly accurate fire on you if you stry into range. Also a wider range of units will put up ground fire now as opposed to LOMAC and even 7.62/12.7/14.7mm fire will take you down if theres enough of them, mostly the multiple engine hits are will break something.

 

As far as wingmen, they're pretty good and you have a wide range of orders and the data linking, which makes getting them to do what you want them to do a ton easier.

[Koriel]

You shouldn't expect Black Shark to have *everything*, but it's the beginning of a brand new series. It will evolve and improve as each new module is released. ;)

 

I disagree, it's engine is old. it uses the upgraded engine from Flanker 2.0 which was released in 1999. So since it's release the engine has received a few upgrades, the AI I am talking about it stil severely lacking. If I recall correctly, the way the AI behaves actually resembles the way it did on Flanker 1.0. So since Flanker 1.0's release in 1995 the AI behaviour I am talking about has received hardly any attention. The graphics engine DCS:BS is using is a rebuild one from flanker 2.0 form 1999. So actually the only thing that DCS:BS can boast about after 3+ years of development is 1 (one) very accurately modelled helicopter. Ok, I am exaggerating just a wee bit, but you get the drift. A lot of things have received just minor enhancements. And one of Flanker's big drawbacks, an empty world is still one of DCS:BS's big negative points. Unless I am one of the few that cares about stuff like that ED really should pay attention to this.

One of the reasons people still fly Falcon 4.0 ( any flavour you want ) Is it's total immersion in an active lively environment. I was hoping DCS:BS would have improved upon this, sadly it isn't.

 

Mind you, I still like DCS:BS. If only because it's the first realistic sim to be released in ages. And I do hope future builds will improve upon the areas I find lacking, but seeing as they have been present in earlier sims since 1995, I don't have a lot of hope.

[GGTharos]

Disagree all you like; Glowing AMRAAM is exactly correct:

 

The engine (or rather, all engines within the game, be it AI, Graphical, etc) will be upgraded as time goes on. They might not get upgrades at the same time, one might be as much of a focus for improvement over another from module to module, but everything will receive attention.

 

That is the plan.

 

And yes, you are exagerrating a whole lot. DCS: Black Shark was quite a piece of work despite not having replaced everything.

 

It included things such as the following:

 

New cockpit modeling with fully working instrumentation.

Instrumentation and systems that have as close to realistic behavior as possible given available resources.

Flight model rewriting and improvements.

Control model/systems improvements.

Fuel flow, hydraulics, blah blah blah systems modeling - there's so much of this stuff I don't even remember it to list it point by point!

 

SDK developments.

Ground AI improvements (you might find it lacking still, but it doesn't mean it wasn't worked on)

Flight AI improvements (that you haven't noticed tells me you haven't looked close enough) - specifically, aircraft being moved to the SFM and helicopters to the AFM.

Completely redone target detection and engagement logic and sensor modeling (pilot view restrictions, sensor restrictions - just as a minimum)

 

Weapons flights/sensor modeling rewritten for a number of weapons.

 

Editor rewritten from scratch.

 

GUI rewritten from scratch ...

 

Whole new controller input system

higher resolution height map mesh for terrain

higher texture resolution of terrain

much higher object density on terrain (buildings, trees, etc.)

new turbulence system

new multiplayer code system

new log book system

new campaign system

trigger and events system in ME

vastly improved helo AI

improved ground AI

many new AI units at much greater levels of detail

advanced dynamics for rockets

shells and some missiles

support for multi-monitors and 6 DDOF

whole new ground support comms and capabilities

new data link systems

radio line of sight modeling

missions can be alive as the mission designer wants

 

So, your lack of hope is rather unfounded given that you haven't considered just how huge of an investment this up-front buildup has been for DCS.

I will also remind you kindly that Falcon 4 is where it is because the code was leaked and it has been in constant development for ten years now - this is not true for Flanker or LOMAC.

 

I would say that with respect to high-fidelity modeling, ED has done a LOT for the time it has taken to release Black Shark, and let's not forget that this development included a hiatus in order to complete ANG's A-10C project.

 

In addition, while there is no dynamic campaign or mission generator, the 'emptiness' of your battlefield depends only on the mission builder. ED made no secret of not having a DC or automated mission generator for Black Shark.

 

The accusation that ED does not pay attention to this stuff is also unfounded; while there was no movement on this front, I'm fairly certain it has little to do with developers not wanting to do it - there are other reasons, and they are every bit as good as yours if not better ;)

 

I understand that you are disapointed not to find the features you wanted in there, but bluntly accusing ED of 'just doing this' or 'just doing that' as if it was all too easy is just not okay.

 

I'll repeat again ... despite the list belted out above, and by all means I can't possibly remember everything off the top of my head - ALL aspects of DCS will be receiving updates and upgrades, sometimes complete rewrites, from module to module. DCS is a living project, always being improved.

 

You are NOT just getting 'another flyable' with each module. You are getting real Simulation development. It doesn't mean all your pet peeves will be looked at, and those that will be might not be looked at as fast as you'd like them to, but things ARE moving forward all the time, and they are moving forward A LOT with each module.

Edited October 31, 2008 by GGTharos
typoitis majorus

[RvETito]

Koriel, with all due respect but you don't know what you're talking about. DCS having the same AI like Flanker 1 and 2?! That's just silly. I have both sims and have played them a lot, your sentence doesn't come even close to reality.

 

True, it doesn't have YET the battlefield engine that runs in Falcon series but it has a physical model that is generation ahead of any Falcon version. You think that's nothing? Well, think again. DCS will have dynamic campaign technology, but it takes time. One step at a time, you can't have all of it altogether. Look in the credits and see how many programmers the dev team consist of? See my point?

[Groove]

What GG and Tito said plus:

 

The ground AI will get a big overhaul in the future, im sure about it.

[Wags]

^^^

 

Very true. In fact, the team is already working on vehicles scattering when under attack and using smoke grenades.