How to identify friend from foe?

[Skyracer]

Im entering a merge with two f-16s fighting each other, how supposed to tell who is the bad guy now that the HSD future has evaporated? 

[WHOGX5]

Verbal communication is pretty much the only way unless you get close enough to see the markings/camo.

[Wizxrd]

You can use TMS Left Short < 1 second for a scan of all contacts on the FCR or TMS Left Long > 1 second to scan targets on a specific azimuth aligned with your cursor. When scanned, if targets are friendly they will appear with a green circle around the contact, if they aren't friendly you'll be given no extra information around the contact.

 

Here is a good video from Wags explaining IFF: 

 

 

Hope this helps some!

 

[TobiasA]

Either use IFF or once you are merged, there is no other way than to read markings / paint.
If you enter a 2 vs 2 dogfight against two F-16's, you need to do careful verbal communications. Just like in real life.

[darkman222]

4 hours ago, Skyracer said:

now that the HSD future has evaporated? 

What did I miss? What other methods of identifying friend or foe apart from the ones mentioned above do we have?

The chance that a Nato jet will fight another Nato jet in DCS is much higher than in reality though. God bless the guy who invented labels for dogfight servers.

[Agrrregat]

2 hours ago, darkman222 said:

What did I miss? What other methods of identifying friend or foe apart from the ones mentioned above do we have?

The chance that a Nato jet will fight another Nato jet in DCS is much higher than in reality though. God bless the guy who invented labels for dogfight servers.

Chances are high in reality too, check conflict between Greece and Turkey. 

Datalink and IFF are the only way if visual confirmation/communication is not possible.

[darkman222]

@AgrrregatBoth things youre saying are (one of them is sad but) true.

@SkyracerBut I still dont get how much more you would expect from the HSD . It works just fine, and yes, its slow if you complain about that. If AWACS or another aircraft with link16 is in the area, HSD shows you all you can expect it to show. And you can IFF on the radar MFD to double check. Its not as comfortable as in the F18 but if even you have STT lock on the bogey, press TMS left. If he leaves a green circle at his current position on the radar, dont shoot. But youd have to look down to the radar MFD for that in a dogfight unfortunately.

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by darkman222

[Machalot]

19 hours ago, Skyracer said:

now that the HSD future has evaporated? 

What does this mean? I haven't played the new patch yet. 

[AlexCaboose]

20 hours ago, Skyracer said:

Im entering a merge with two f-16s fighting each other, how supposed to tell who is the bad guy now that the HSD future has evaporated? 

You need to modify your MFD pages per mastermode. DGFT and MSL Override won't have the HSD on them by default, but it's 3 button clicks to put it back.

[slowfinger23]

One simple way to DETERM who is who, (without SA DL16 Right MFD), is the use of FLARES to identify where's your buddy in that Furball.

Cheers.

[Skyracer]

31 minutes ago, slowfinger23 said:

One simple way to DETERM who is who, (without SA DL16 Right MFD), is the use of FLARES to identify where's your buddy in that Furball.

Cheers.

Yeah but its public server. So he does not reply

[SFJackBauer]

22 hours ago, Skyracer said:

Yeah but its public server. So he does not reply

 

Then is not DCS fault, as the title of your thread may imply.

[Florence201]

DACM communications are primary here, utilising BULLSEYE to ascertain which furball you’re referring to. 
 

F-16s merged BE 123/45, who’s defensive?

 

Or

 

Same but “say status” at the end instead 

 

for example

Edited August 15, 2021 by Florence201

[SCPanda]

11 hours ago, SFJackBauer said:

 

Then is not DCS fault, as the title of your thread may imply.

Kind of is. 2021 and we still don't have a working radio communication system in the game, you can use the radio to "talk" to AIs but not real players. People have to use SRS instead but not everyone has SRS installed. Right now, the most common player to player communication you see in DCS MP severs is actually text chat... 

[darkman222]

It would be great if we already had a working radio instead of SRS. But also remember DCS is not real life. Even if we had radio in DCS people could have not set it to correct frequencies, or have it off, or even just dont have a microphone.

[-Relax-]

Big Problem with the IFF can be that the "green feedback mark for friendlys" ist not on the Contact. Oftens its off the contact and with more contacts near the contact show on the radar it can be hard to tell who is the friendly... 

 

Is this something need to fix or is it how it should be?

[SFJackBauer]

22 minutes ago, -Relax- said:

Big Problem with the IFF can be that the "green feedback mark for friendlys" ist not on the Contact. Oftens its off the contact and with more contacts near the contact show on the radar it can be hard to tell who is the friendly... 

 

Is this something need to fix or is it how it should be?

 

IFF is not a magic wand, not even in the real world where you can have malfunctions. But unlike the Hornet in the Viper there is no automatic correlation between the radar contacts and the IFF returns. So, understanding this, you should build the mental picture of where are the friendlies and enemies over time. You shouldn't have any problem knowing who is who in the radar scope if you keep scanning and building that mental picture.

 

 

[-Relax-]

I know that Viper dont have auto IFF. You ever was on growling sidewinder server? 10 people on same point. not easy to have a picture there in head from friendly and bandits

 

So would be nice to know if this is the way how it should be from a official statement. thx

[Frederf]

19 hours ago, -Relax- said:

Big Problem with the IFF can be that the "green feedback mark for friendlys" ist not on the Contact. Oftens its off the contact and with more contacts near the contact show on the radar it can be hard to tell who is the friendly... 

 

Is this something need to fix or is it how it should be?

The AIFF antennas are the ridges on the nose in front of the canopy. The azimuth resolution is slightly inferior to the radar and much worse in elevation. I assume the distance is worse too. It just isn't exact enough to perfectly overlay on top of the radar/DL symbols. If friendly/bandit are in a turning dogfight you're not going to be able to confidently tell one from the other outside visual range. You might get a good idea just before entering turning range if you can get the bogeys separated in azimuth.

[SFJackBauer]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:38 PM, -Relax- said:

I know that Viper dont have auto IFF. You ever was on growling sidewinder server? 10 people on same point. not easy to have a picture there in head from friendly and bandits

 

So would be nice to know if this is the way how it should be from a official statement. thx

 

Yes I have. Actually I have been PVPin in DCS since I bought Flamming Cliffs 2, 11 years ago. I still have the receipt on my email.

 

So yes, it is entirely possible to either:

- Maintain situational awareness in complex situations. You have a brain inside your skull. Use it. If your jet also helps you on that, great.

- If you can't maintain it, then... bug out. You are not forced to enter a fight. But I get why servers like Growling Sidewinder encourages that... its a mess sometimes. But the jet was not designed with the Growling Sidewinder server in mind. It was designed to be piloted by someone who understand its systems.

 

If someone chooses to enter a fight he doesn't understand and then makes a friendly-fire mistake, he should not blame anyone but himself.

[ColinM9991]

On 8/14/2021 at 3:05 AM, Machalot said:

What does this mean? I haven't played the new patch yet. 

 

So does this actually mean anything or is op talking from his behind with regards to the "HSD future"?

Edited August 19, 2021 by ColinM9991

[TobiasA]

The IFF and the seeker strategy of a 120 if it loses lock during the flight is reason for the #1 rule in BVR: You never ever fire 120's or 54's into a furball.

[-Relax-]

On 8/19/2021 at 5:38 PM, SFJackBauer said:

 

So yes, it is entirely possible to either:

- Maintain situational awareness in complex situations. You have a brain inside your skull. Use it. If your jet also helps you on that, great.

Wow.. Yeah you are the best my sweetheart. You have the brain to know exactly who is who when you merged and 8 fighters nearby each other haha

On 8/19/2021 at 5:38 PM, SFJackBauer said:

- If you can't maintain it, then... bug out. You are not forced to enter a fight. But I get why servers like Growling Sidewinder encourages that... its a mess sometimes. But the jet was not designed with the Growling Sidewinder server in mind. It was designed to be piloted by someone who understand its systems.

I agree and i dont even do TK´s . I just wanted know if its normal that the green dot is off the target thats all buddy..

On 8/19/2021 at 5:38 PM, SFJackBauer said:

 

If someone chooses to enter a fight he doesn't understand and then makes a friendly-fire mistake, he should not blame anyone but himself.

I agree here too

 

 

 Whats your ingame name in DCS multiplayer? I am more on Buddyspike and just for quick fun action from time to time at growling.

[StopLight]

I do miss how it was, I.e. when you locked a target, it showed on the datalink as either a red or green icon. There isn’t any indication of this now.  Is it bugged that it no longer does this?

[Frederf]

I found that when IFF master knob is in standby/low/norm/emer that you get a colored radar contact when bugging a friendly. This applies with LVT-MIDS knob off so it's clearly the IFF doing it not L16. And this was in a mission with no AWACS.

 

So just make sure to set that IFF knob to norm just before takeoff and you will have that ability.