DCS : Vietnam

[LucShep]

Without any question, the most requested and awaited terrain map in recent years has got to be Vietnam (war period 1955 – 1975).

Think of it like the importance of Normandy, The Channel and Marianas maps for WW2 modules of DCS. If you have such a module, you'll get such a map.

 

We have cold-war era aircraft, current and upcoming modules (blufor and redfor), which don't have any 50's, 60's or 70's map to make better sense:

 

Exhistent modules:

• UH-1H Huey
• F-86 Sabre
• A-4E Skyhawk (community project)
• F-5E Tiger II
• F-14A Tomcat
• MiG-15 Fagot
• MiG-19 Farmer
• MiG-21 Fishbed

Upcoming (confirmed) modules:

• F-8 Crusader
• A-6 Intruder
• A-7 Corsair II
• MiG-17 Fresco

 

Any Cold-War era conflict map would be great, but Vietnam in particular represents unique scenarios and really huge potential, for which those modules would (finally?) be made trully relevant, more interesting to use in DCS, and probably explode in popularity.

 

Considering the interest around the conflict and time-period, I think having such map (specifically, a period correct Vietnam) would imediately encourage production of assets, then missions and campaigns, like no other map has yet incite in DCS.

I suspect at some point we'd see more modules being announced (AH-1 Cobra, F-4 Phantom II, A-1 Skyraider, F-105 Thunderchief, F-104 Starfighter, F-100 Super Sabre, F-101 Voodoo, A-37 Dragonfly, HH-3E Jolly Green Giant, etc, etc)...

 

Really, if you think of it, the whole thing is a potential gold mine just waiting to be explored. Make it happen, the rest will come. 
 

PS: Astronomix is gathering ideas for a new 3rd partie's DCS map, I have also posted in their thread:

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by LucShep

[upyr1]

Yes. I'd love to see DCS Vietnam and Korea- both maps and asset packs. I think we might be able to get two maps out of Vietnam Yankee station and dixie station

[MAXsenna]

"Welcome to the jungle, we got fun and games!"
Luckily the conflict didn't stretch that long.
I vote YES!!!!!!!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[bies]

5 hours ago, LucShep said:

Any Cold-War era conflict map would be great,

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by bies

[WinterH]

I am against this idea. Which will prove unpopular I know... but let me list the reasons:

 

- Vietnam when? The conflict lasted over a decade, and aircraft early, mid, and late war are far removed in capability between one another.

- Map of the conflict is incredibly HUGE and very densely packed with jungles and cities, more so than any map thus far.

- There is a huge cost of opportunity in getting Vietnam versions of aircraft instead of post war variants, later 70s and 80s is one of the best fits for DCS, considering available and upcoming assets, playable and AI alike, as well as the maps.

- We don't have appropriate aircraft, let me detail below:

5 hours ago, LucShep said:

Exhistent modules:

• UH-1H Huey - mostly FITS
• F-86 Sabre  - Was not used in Vietnam War
• A-4E Skyhawk (community project) - FITS
• F-5E Tiger II - Post war version, has a better radar, better RWR, better aerodynamic performance than Vietnam War F-5 variants, but maybe kinda sorta fitable...
• F-14A Tomcat - Barely a footnote at the end of war and didn't do anything, and still the version we have is way later and more advanced
• MiG-15 Fagot - Was not used in Vietnam War
• MiG-19 Farmer - Not the right version, but ok enough
• MiG-21 Fishbed - Not the right version, Vietnam got Bis only after the war, and Bis is superior to what was avaiable in its thrust, radar, etc.

Upcoming (confirmed) modules:

• F-8 Crusader - Fits
• A-6 Intruder - Almost certainly will be post Vietnam with vastly superior capabilities
• A-7 Corsair II - Same as above
• MiG-17 Fresco - Fits

My notes next to the type in above quote. We don't have proper AI aircraft, we don't have nearly enough of proper flyable aircraft, relatively little fitting ground assets, and map is mostly unfeasible from what we see in DCS maps thus far.

 

Vietnam War is very interesting, and would be cool yeah. It is not like I dislike it or don't care or anything like that. However, it is far from being feasible when you look at it, and getting Vietnam appropriate versions of the aircraft would be in expense of getting versions that would fit many decades following, with many existing fitting assets that can oppose or ally them. DCS: Vietnam is kind of a pipedream, and we'd better have 75-90ish period better fleshed out instead. After that, and if/when map tech allows for doing the theater justice, yeah, why not. But I'd say Vietnam anytime soon is not as good of an idea as it may seem at first.

 

[Lurker]

I completely disagree that we already don't have modules which could be used on the map. unless you really want to split hairs or suffer from OCD, the Mig21 BIS with weapon restrictions can fill in for earlier variants, and this goes for other modules both available and in development. 

 

I'd love to see it. Preferably with comprehensive unit AI assets, such as the upcoming Falklands map. I disagree that it can't be done, it just needs a dedicated map making Team, as Eagle Dynamics probably won't go there. 

 

However I do think that there need to be major changes to the underlying DCS World game logic, mostly with regards to AI, as a prerequisite for a Vietnam map to become anywhere close to functional in the proper sense of the Word. We would need destructible trees (napalm), Huge improvements to AI Infantry (jungle combat), functional AI GCI etc. 

 

 

[Miro]

Perhaps the creators afraid that a Cold War map in Marianas quality would be too demanding for modern computers. So ... even a Cold War map in Caucasus quality would be better than no Cold War map.

[...]

hace 6 horas, LucShep dijo:

Without any question, the most requested and awaited terrain map in recent years has got to be Vietnam (war period 1955 – 1975).

Think of it like the importance of Normandy, The Channel and Marianas maps for WW2 modules of DCS. If you have such a module, you'll get such a map.

 

We have cold-war era aircraft, current and upcoming modules (blufor and redfor), which don't have any 50's, 60's or 70's map to make better sense:

 

Exhistent modules:

• UH-1H Huey
• F-86 Sabre
• A-4E Skyhawk (community project)
• F-5E Tiger II
• F-14A Tomcat
• MiG-15 Fagot
• MiG-19 Farmer
• MiG-21 Fishbed

Upcoming (confirmed) modules:

• F-8 Crusader
• A-6 Intruder
• A-7 Corsair II
• MiG-17 Fresco

 

Any Cold-War era conflict map would be great, but Vietnam in particular represents unique scenarios and really huge potential, for which those modules would (finally?) be made trully relevant, more interesting to use in DCS, and probably explode in popularity.

 

Considering the interest around the conflict and time-period, I think having such map (specifically, a period correct Vietnam) would imediately encourage production of assets, then missions and campaigns, like no other map has yet incite in DCS.

I suspect at some point we'd see more modules being announced (AH-1 Cobra, F-4 Phantom II, A-1 Skyraider, F-105 Thunderchief, F-104 Starfighter, F-100 Super Sabre, F-101 Voodoo, A-37 Dragonfly, HH-3E Jolly Green Giant, etc, etc)...

 

Really, if you think of it, the whole thing is a potential gold mine just waiting to be explored. Make it happen, the rest will come. 
 

PS: Astronomix is gathering ideas for a new 3rd partie's DCS map, I have also posted in their thread:

 

 

 

 

I support your request, but the most important thing is missing, a realistic and functional infantry. The Vietnam War was based on movement and support of ground troops. With the current infantry, this is not possible.

[LucShep]

2 hours ago, WinterH said:

I am against this idea. Which will prove unpopular I know... but let me list the reasons:

 

- Vietnam when? The conflict lasted over a decade, and aircraft early, mid, and late war are far removed in capability between one another.

- Map of the conflict is incredibly HUGE and very densely packed with jungles and cities, more so than any map thus far.

- There is a huge cost of opportunity in getting Vietnam versions of aircraft instead of post war variants, later 70s and 80s is one of the best fits for DCS, considering available and upcoming assets, playable and AI alike, as well as the maps.

- We don't have appropriate aircraft, let me detail below:

My notes next to the type in above quote. We don't have proper AI aircraft, we don't have nearly enough of proper flyable aircraft, relatively little fitting ground assets, and map is mostly unfeasible from what we see in DCS maps thus far.

 

Vietnam War is very interesting, and would be cool yeah. It is not like I dislike it or don't care or anything like that. However, it is far from being feasible when you look at it, and getting Vietnam appropriate versions of the aircraft would be in expense of getting versions that would fit many decades following, with many existing fitting assets that can oppose or ally them. DCS: Vietnam is kind of a pipedream, and we'd better have 75-90ish period better fleshed out instead. After that, and if/when map tech allows for doing the theater justice, yeah, why not. But I'd say Vietnam anytime soon is not as good of an idea as it may seem at first.

 

 

A 1975-1990 era conflict map (or maps!) would be cool, for sure.

But then we have modules coming for which a Vietnam map will make the most sense, and with which plenty current ones can be made to fit.

 

I'm aware of which model of aircraft did and didn't participate in Vietnam's conflict(s) - the list mentions DCS' 50s/60s/70s era aircraft to make a point (not necessarily Vietnam).

 

While you are technically correct, it is no different than what has been always done with the rest of jet fighters we currently have, and it'd certainly be no worse.

If you think about it, with weapon restrictions most of those modules can fill in for earlier variants -  goes for the available and upcoming mentioned modules.

There are many of us tired of DCS' problem of utterly mismatched pieces on war scenarios, and the general mistreatment of older jets to favor more modern ones. 

A Vietnam map would fix part of the problem -at least the latter part- bringing more interest to modules currently overlooked (because they don't really fit with what we have).

The non-exhistent assets would come, it'd be foolish not to capitalize with DLC (otherwise, modders will provide, almost surely)- the former part of the problem would be sorted.

And, afterwards, it'd probably make room, gather a lot more interest for more modules of such era in the future. 

This is why I'm firmly convinced it represents a huge oportunity (potential gold mine) for ED, and especially to 3rd parties.

 

BTW, please also share your opinion in this thread:

 

1 hour ago, La Unión Atazar said:

 

I support your request, but the most important thing is missing, a realistic and functional infantry. The Vietnam War was based on movement and support of ground troops. With the current infantry, this is not possible.

Absolutely, assets will be vital.

It wouldn't make much sense to recreate Vietnam conflict era scenarios with the current 1990s troops, vehicles and other weaponry.

 

But then we must start from somewhere!  Like I said, "make it happen, the rest will come".

 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by LucShep

[Mike_Romeo]

On one hand, Vietnam is very huge:


      
On the other hand, a world map is confiremd:

Edited August 26, 2021 by Mike_Romeo

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all,

 

Vietnam is not currently in our plans. 

 

Please remember the rules when posting and keep it DCS related

 

thank you

[WobblyFlops]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

But then we have modules coming for which a Vietnam map will make the most sense, and with which plenty current ones can be made to fit.

 

Barely any. The only upcoming aircraft where this is true are the Mig-17 (which isn't even officially confirmed by ED afaik) and the F-8. The A-6 and the A-7 will have nothing to do with Vietnam, with vastly different and much more sophisticated avionics and systems.

 

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

If you think about it, with weapon restrictions most of those modules can fill in for earlier variants

Not really. Most of them have either different engines or highly different flight performance characteristics. It's probably good enough in an unofficial campaign but it absolutely would be incredibly jarring in an official setting. We will have dozens of Cold War (mid 70s to late 80s to be exact) era modules, with appropriate AI assets. Why not focus the attention on even more 80s assets and appropriate fictional and historical maps that are perfectly doable with the existing tech instead of shoe horning highly anachronistic aircraft into yet another barebones setting? Not to mention the amount of technical challenges it would bring, as Lurker detailed them.

 

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

There are many of us tired of DCS' problem of utterly mismatched pieces on war scenarios, and the general mistreatment of older jets to favor more modern ones. 

 

What are you talking about? The vast majority of announced and upcoming modules are going to be Cold War era. Even today, there are tons of Cold War era modules and quite a few of them are from the 90s.

 

 

To sum it up, ED could spend God knows how many man hours and fundamentally rework parts of the engin and AI to suit an era that barely has any appropriate modules and assets to further increase the constant talking point about DCS not having a cohesive theme. Vietnam would be the absolute worst direction they can go. Oh and don't forget, you'd need to buy asset pack DLCs to even start playing if (and that's a big if) anyone makes one in the first place. 

 

Or they could just continue to work on the time frames that DCS focuses on; 80s Cold War, and 2000/2010s GWOT, where the only issue is the lack of full fidelity redfor in the modern era (nothing they can do about that) but for an 80s scenario there are barely problems when it comes to this. Vast assortment of full fidelity iconic modules, lot of assets, a plethora of historic and fictional (but still reasonably realistic) scenarios to choose from, much better balance between the two sides. The only issues is that it's very USN focused and the redfor won't have a full fidelity strike aircraft until we get an Su-22, which isn't impossible. After that, we just need maps and perhaps full fidelity land based bluefor aircraft, which can be paid "downgrades" based on the Viper or the A-10. 

[LucShep]

 

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

There are many of us tired of DCS' problem of utterly mismatched pieces on war scenarios, and the general mistreatment of older jets to favor more modern ones. 

 

 

2 hours ago, WobblyFlops said:

 

What are you talking about? The vast majority of announced and upcoming modules are going to be Cold War era. Even today, there are tons of Cold War era modules and quite a few of them are from the 90s.

 

 

I meant exactly that.

The lack of interest in any iconic Century fighters by ED, for once.

Or having 1950s to 1970s aicraft placed in semi-fictional scenarios where they don't really belong to, historically.

 

As it is, the problem seems to be this kind of "mixed bag", where in DCS we have so many aircraft modules of different decades, all funneled into one time-period for hypothetical scenarios (early 1990s to early 2000s?), which of course undoubtfully pushes preferences towards more modern aircraft. ....for which, ironically, is near impossible to get detailed data.

 

And btw, check your facts. 1990s is not Cold War era. It ended in 1989 (though officially in 1991) with the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

Edited August 26, 2021 by LucShep
...spelling(?)

[bies]

Truth is there is not a single Cold War map in DCS right now and plenty of Cold War modules at the same time since Korea 1950 to Desert Storm 1991 - all forced to fly over WW2 or modern day maps. 

(MiG-15bis, F-86F, MiG-19P, MiG-21bis, F-5E, L-39, C-101, F-14A, Mi-24, Gazelle, Mi-8, UH-1H Huey) + WiP (Mirage F.1, Fiat G.91, MiG-23MLA, MiG-17, A-6 Intruder, A-7 Corsair, Bolkov 105, Sea Harrier, MiG-29A, Su-17, F-8 Crusader) + low fidelity A-10A, Su-25A, Su-27S, F-15C, MiG-29A

 

As much as i love to see DCS Vietnam Bignewy and other guys are right - we don't have any Vietnam era aircrafts yet as F-5E, MiG-21bis, UH-1H Huey, F-14A and future A-7, A-6 are all 1970s/1980s post Vietnam variants. Only future MiG-19S and mods like A-4E or MiG-17 are going to represent Vietnam era. Possibly F-8J crusader but i'm not sure.

 

With some proper maps we could make other Cold War conflicts like 1980s Iran-Iraq war since we have proper timeframe variants in DCS or in developement like Iranian F-5E, F-14A, UH-1H and Iraqi MiG-21bis, MiG-23MLA, MiG-29A, Mi-24, Mi-8, Su-22, Su-25A, Gazelle, Mirage F.1 + most proper ground assets.

 

Or 1980s USA - Libya (El Dorado Canyon/Praying Mantis/Gulf of Sidra) with US Navy F-14A, A-7E, A-6E, Forrestal Class Carrier and Libyan MiG-21bis, MiG-23MLA, Su-22, Mirage F.1 + most proper ground assets.

 

Or Desert Storm with US F-14A/B, F-15C, A-6E, A-7E, A-10A and Iraqi MiG-21bis, MiG-23MLA, MiG-29A, Su-22, Su-25A + most proper ground assets.

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But the reality is at this moment we can't make any realistic scenario in DCS except for WW2 1944 late Normandy operation. Lack of proper map or lack of proper aircraft variants. I would like the DCS to make some focus on just 2-3 real life realistic interesting conflicts (like Korea, Vietnam, 7 days war, Jom Kippur war, Iraq-Iran war, Lebanon war, Desert Storm etc. ) with proper map and few flayable modules. Instead of ONLY fictional scenarios with aircrafts from all possible eras.

On the other hand we should be grateful for what ED gave us now, remember older simulators had mostly only one aircraft but also one properly simulated conflict with all enviroment. I just think instead of adding more and more modules it would be better to take a break and properly simulate just 2-3 interesting real conflicts with map and assets.

Edited August 26, 2021 by bies

[WobblyFlops]

25 minutes ago, LucShep said:

As it is, the problem seems to be this kind of "mixed bag", where in DCS we have so many aircraft modules of different decades, all funneled into one time-period for hypothetical scenarios

This is a true problem. But piling in even more aircraft from vastly different eras and trying to do even more time periods at the same time would just exacerbate this issue. The true point is that you seemingly want ED to focus on the 50s to late 60s timeframe, which just isn't what the current DCS ecosystem is focusing on. You're asking for them to cater to your interests, which is perfectly fine but you're presenting it in a misleading way. If they did what you asked for, this issue of lack of coherent focus and the lack of properly fleshed out eras would become worse. It would be yet another time frame with anachronistic assets cobbled together, held back by technical problems.

 

29 minutes ago, LucShep said:

for which, ironically, is near impossible to get detailed data

It's a tossup. Newer aircraft are more classified in general but if the data is unclassified and non export controlled, it's easier to get. Older aircraft have old SMEs who may not even be alive or may not remember well enough to actually help. And old documentation can be lost very easily. So this can be discussed on a case by case basis. For example as far as I know the F-105 doesn't have any -34 available and most documentation got destroyed in a warehouse fire (may be urban legend, but i do know it's virtually impossible to get detailed data on this jet). The F-106 has a lot of data available and Bruce Gordon would most definitely be able to help but that didn't see combat in Vietnam. He even talks about ECM, radar and air to air tactics on his channel, all of that is unclassified.

 

30 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Or having 1950s to 1970s aicraft placed in semi-fictional scenarios where they don't really belong to, historically.

There are some aircraft in DCS where this is an issue but those require Korea instead of Vietnam. The F-86 and Mig-15 are Korean era aircraft and specifically need a Korea map with appropriate assets. The Mig-15 has very little to do with Vietnam, the F-86 was never even in Vietnam in any capacity, the only one we can sort of count here are the Mig-19 and the upcoming Mig-17. If you want a fitting scenario for all of this, Vietnam alone isn't going to be enough.

 

The Mig-17's export variants were in service in a some African and Asian countries and it would be relevant in different scenarios all the way up to the 70s, not just Vietnam. (But this is not that important for DCS.) Mig-19 export variants absolutely can fit into a 70s and even 80s Middle Eastern or Asian scenarios and the J-6A would be really close, the F-6A would be reasonably close as far as I know.

57 minutes ago, LucShep said:

And btw, check your facts. 1990s is not Cold War era. It ended in 1989 (though officially in 1991) with the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

I didn't say that. I said that Cold War era and 90s era aircraft are both available and a lot of Cold War era aircraft are under development. Two different set of aircraft.

[upyr1]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all,

 

Vietnam is not currently in our plans. 

 

Please remember the rules when posting and keep it DCS related

 

thank you

Can ya'll at least add some 1960s AI assets to give the MiG-19 and 21 some period targets? 

[Rick50]

 

One thing to consider is that a Vietnam map may well take far more work hours to complete, given the extremely high object count it would have, the millions of elevation changes and trillions of palm trees, AI boats, riverside hamlets, city buildings that would be unique from the other maps... Not saying impossible or impractical, just being realistic about the workload, which means the development time will likely be either a lot longer, or require a lot more creators/artists to model all these objects and then place them all on the map. 

 

How long did the Syria map take to make? About 2 years? I'd expect map of Indochine to take at least a year longer. 

 

Unfortunately this object density issue may also apply to other maps, like a Korea map that many of us want to see.

[Rick50]

3 hours ago, Mike_Romeo said:

On the other hand, a world map is confiremd:

 

 

 

It is?

 

My interpretation of that post in the screenshot, is that internally they are "talking" about it. . I infer that this means they are talking about if:

 

- it's possible in this current game engine, or maybe wait for the next generation of "DCS engine"

- if gaming pc's will be able to handle the whole globe, or even just larger regions

- if they have the human and financial resources to actually make such huge maps

- what the sales gains might look like, best case worst case, and whether there is significant risk of lack of ROI

- Maybe they are running some tests, to see if a global map could run with high FPS and stable for 12+ hours without crashing the server

 

A test might involve a temporary "tying" all the current maps together to make a very large map, then maybe duplicating that a second or third time, to make a single map the size of a continent, and see what it's like with a couple dozen players and lots of AI units battling it out.

 

Confirmation of "early stages" is, IMO, not confirmation that "global" will happen. There's all sorts of reasons why this might not be practical. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see larger maps, regions instead of 'maps'. I'd love to see the whole world modeled. But to me, "early stages" does not mean confirmation of a product that will reach the store, but rather that they are trying to see if it's workable, or laying the early groundwork for a long term project.

[upyr1]

 

 

5 hours ago, WinterH said:

 

Vietnam War is very interesting, and would be cool yeah. It is not like I dislike it or don't care or anything like that. However, it is far from being feasible when you look at it, and getting Vietnam appropriate versions of the aircraft would be in expense of getting versions that would fit many decades following, with many existing fitting assets that can oppose or ally them. DCS: Vietnam is kind of a pipedream, and we'd better have 75-90ish period better fleshed out instead. After that, and if/when map tech allows for doing the theater justice, yeah, why not. But I'd say Vietnam anytime soon is not as good of an idea as it may seem at first.

 

There is no reason Eagle shouldn't work on more early to mid cold war assets, as the period of 1945 to 1975 is mostly blank. Just sit down with the historical mode on and build missions set in 1960 the same for the Mig-15 set in 1954                                                                       

 

[upyr1]

17 minutes ago, Rick50 said:

 

One thing to consider is that a Vietnam map may well take far more work hours to complete, given the extremely high object count it would have, the millions of elevation changes and trillions of palm trees, AI boats, riverside hamlets, city buildings that would be unique from the other maps... Not saying impossible or impractical, just being realistic about the workload, which means the development time will likely be either a lot longer, or require a lot more creators/artists to model all these objects and then place them all on the map. 

 

How long did the Syria map take to make? About 2 years? I'd expect map of Indochine to take at least a year longer. 

 

Unfortunately this object density issue may also apply to other maps, like a Korea map that many of us want to see.

that is probably true, however I think more important to have the period assets than the map. I would much rather have a 1968 super power show down in the caucuses or Mid East or naval battle in the Marianas with period HI and AI assets than a Vietnam map with modern. 

[LucShep]

More than one people replying against it because of resources, time, and possible performance issues, which developers would have to deal with.

 

Look, I'm not downplaying the ammount of resources (people and time) and big investment for them to create and flesh out a Vietnam (or Korea, or any other Cold War era conflict terrain, for that matter).

I'm also not discounting possible performance issues due to necessity of many objects in the terrain. Or the lack of assets. 

Especially knowing that assets for that time period are still needed... since ever, regardless of map!

 

But in the end, my point is exactly that - this situation with 1950s, 1960s and 1970s aircraft is not viable, it can't go on forever. 
They are, by far, the most neglected. And we have even more modules of same time period coming. 

 

The Vietnam map was the example I presented as probably the most "iconic" or desired battleground of that whole time (three decade period!) and, also because of that, likely the one to get more success and, therefore, R.O.I. for whoever decides to embrace it (if not E.D., then 3rd parties).

Just like I believe a "Gulf War" period correct related terrain would be very sucessful, for its respective timeline aircraft modules (circa 1991).

If other maps of relevant conflicts in Cold War period, specifically 50s-to-70s, can be produced and easier to acomplish, then -by alI means- I'm sure everyone is up for it.

 

For years we've had WW2 aircraft in Caucasus only, and those didn't really "bloom" until the Normandy came out. Now they've got The Channel too (and now Marianas as well). And have their WW2 assets already.

I think it's fair to say that the Warbirds are now viable, and have seen success in DCS. It was worth it, was it not?

 

There's already Caucasus for 1990s, Persian Gulf and Syria for 2000s. Nevada works for 1980s to 2000s, even if only as training grounds. The recently released Marianas also works for modern era. And we have Falklands (Malvinas) coming with assets included, which fits early 1980s and later decades as well (or so I understood from enterview of Tactical Pascale). 
But there's the elephant in the room.... theres still NOTHING for a period of over three decades (post WWII to late 1970s). 

 

  

12 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Hi all,

 

Vietnam is not currently in our plans. 

 

Please remember the rules when posting and keep it DCS related

 

thank you

 

Many thanks for responding.

At least now we know it won't come from ED anywhere in the near future.

My question now is - does that exclude the project from a third party?

 

Just a request, that I feel is shared by others - can E.D. at least please have a look into assets and other AI aircraft to fit 1950s to 1970s period?

Those are still lacking and would do great service for customers who purchase(d) released modules of that time period, as well as upcoming (in-development) ones.

Edited August 27, 2021 by LucShep

[YSIAD_RIP]

Would a temporary solution be a Vietnam Community Mod of Caucasus with Jungle/Trees and Buildings that are a little more appropriate?

Edited August 26, 2021 by YSIAD_RIP

[Rick50]

56 minutes ago, YSIAD_RIP said:

Would a temporary solution be a Vietnam Community Mod of Caucasus with Jungle/Trees and Buildings that are a little more appropriate?

 

 

 

Sure, I think there was one already, or maybe it's still in development maybe. And it was the Caucasus, same landclass, but new building textures, I think they replaced the trees with palmtrees, added some objects, some billboards of the 1960's VN war era, think they might have changed the general color palete to be brighter, more vivid... I'll have to look in the mods subforum

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Many thanks for responding.

At least now we know it won't come from ED anywhere in the near future.

My question now is - does that exclude the project from a third party?

 

Just a request, that I feel is shared by others - can E.D. at least please have a look into assets and other AI aircraft to fit 1950s to 1970s period?

Those are still lacking and would do great service for customers who purchase(d) current aircraft of that time period, as well as upcoming (in-development) ones.

 

 

A 3rd party can build a Vietnam map. ED has talk they has other priorities. About AI and other assets, that can build by a 3rd party.

About Vietnam MODs on caucasus have some MODs.

 

[Rick50]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

But in the end, my point is exactly that - this situation with 1950s, 1960s and 1970s aircraft is not viable, it can't go on forever. 
They are, by far, the most neglected. And we have even more modules of same time period coming. 

 

Just a request, that I feel is shared by others - can E.D. at least please have a look into assets and other AI aircraft to fit 1950s to 1970s period?

Those are still lacking and would do great service for customers who purchase(d) current aircraft of that time period, as well as upcoming (in-development) ones.

 

 

Agreed, it would be good to have a playground for all the cool older toys!  

 

As for AI, I do remember they were talking about upgrading AI units some more, some in use today date back to the original "Su-27 Flanker" simulation of the mid-1990's... or maybe it was from the first Lock On from around 2002 or so.  But they did talk about how it was a matter of priorities and finding employee time to make those nicer newer models, and that it would take quite some time to upgrade all the older AI units.

 

I personally wonder if it might be good to add upgraded AI models made by DCS user artists... but it takes some knowledge to make AI models that won't choke people's systems... carefully choosing the model LOD's. To me, one of the most glaring AI units, for the 1960's and 70's would be the B-52, because the DCS AI B-52 looks like an H model, while in those days the common one was the tall shark tail D's, some painted with black undersides, some with camoflage up sides, giant wing tanks, no chin sensors. Some were painted white underneath with bare metal for the nuclear SAC role, which means upgraded textures for PBR. Maybe, just maybe, such a model could be "donated" to ED, so that it's incorporated into the sim default units for all to share in missions... rather than "why don't my B-52's show up?" "did you download the mod?" "oh wait, it's not working on mine either" "I can't download the mod, where can I get it?". 

 

Other cold war AI units that could use a facelift include the Tupolev Bear, with modern reflective textures for the bare aluminum. Then for VN scenarios, add some of the riverine boats, and floating base platforms, that small boats would go to replenish, and have helis based on them (Monitors?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monitor_(Vietnam_War)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Riverine_Force