What would be missing if HB were to model the F-14B (U) and F-14D today?

[DSplayer]

I understand that the information pertaining to the F-14D and F-14B (U) is scarce at best and nonexistent at worse which is the reason why Heatblur didn't make those variants yet. But I'm curious what would be missing if Heatblur were to model the F-14D and F-14B (U) using the information that they have today?

Like many others, I'd really like to sit in the back of an F-14D one day and use that cool looking DDD and PTID.

[Lurker]

Oh look. Another F14D wishlist thread. Yay.

[QuiGon]

For example, a lot of the PTID stuff would be missing as there is not sufficent documentation available to model it properly.

Edited December 23, 2021 by QuiGon

[DSplayer]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

Oh look. Another F14D wishlist thread. Yay.

Nah. I understand that it'll probably never come. Smh US government just declassify it so I can have it in my super based epic game

[near_blind]

The B would be missing the PTID, the HUD, portions of the fire control system, the navigation system, and the flight control system.

The D would be missing all of the above plus the radar, the IRST and the MFDs.

 

But other than that, we're totally good to go.

[Kula66]

30 minutes ago, DSplayer said:

Nah. I understand that it'll probably never come. Smh US government just declassify it so I can have it in my super based epic game

Its just a question of time .... it won't be classified for ever

But I guess it may have all been binned by then

Edited December 23, 2021 by Kula66

[Tank50us]

The issue with the F-14B+ and F-14D isn't that the equipment is that classified, as it really isn't. The issue is that much of the documentation is either locked deep in the USN and Grumman Archives, or has been destroyed to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Iranians.

I imagine that HB could probably make an 80-90% solution to the problem though. IE, It's not 100% accurate to the real thing, but it's close enough to feel right. For starters, remember that much of the tech is late 80s to early 90s, so if it looks appropriate for the time period, I'm sure most will accept it. The issue here is that while most of us would probably be happy with the 'close enough' solution, you have those few who want the 100% sim, and unfortunately, they have the megaphones. It's the same problem facing those that want to add prototype designs or even designs that were well manufactured but have limited public information available: they simply can't be made to 100% accuracy, so the mere suggestion of them gets shot down by the sim purists.

[TLTeo]

9 minutes ago, Tank50us said:

I imagine that HB could probably make an 80-90% solution to the problem though. IE, It's not 100% accurate to the real thing, but it's close enough to feel right.

HB have stated over and over again that as far as they are concerned, this is not viable, and they either do something right, or they don't do it at all. HB *are* part of the purists you're complaining about.

[IronMike]

Yeah, and it is less about purism, more about holding ourselves to higher standards and also to the standards of DCS. Some what-if planes really could be fun, and really nothing would speak against doing something like that, but we think DCS is not the right environment for that, and DCS is our environment... 

With the modules we do we want to preserve the history of the aircraft we depict and hence accuracy is mandatory. But who knows, things can change, information can be unearthed, you never know. That said, don't get your hopes high any time soon.

[Jayhawk1971]

If anyone would go for a "what if"-plane, I'd say skip the D entirely, but embrace insanity fully and make the Grumman-proposed Super Tomcat 21.

Or, even better, the "fantasy football" next-gen version (ST-21 Advanced?) with:

• AESA radar
• IRST 21
• Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod
• 9X
• D-JHMCS II
• towed decoy
• MAWS
• SATCOM capability borrowed from the Growler
• heavily upgraded Phoenix variant (AIM-54E ?)
• seamless integration of all western BVR missile systems (Meteor!)

Warp drive, R2 unit may come in a later patch....  

[Prez]

The only thing I would really like to see as an addition to the F-14 would be graphical change to the back seat when the LANTIRN is attached to switch the fish bowl out for the PTID. Like, I would love to get the PTID functionality, but I would be more than happy to simply get it as a visual change in the back like how the LANTIRN control panel is added upon putting the pod on.

[bonesvf103]

How about ROVER?  That would be cool to add, or was that DElta only?

 

v6,

boNes

[Swordsman422]

1 hour ago, bonesvf103 said:

How about ROVER?  That would be cool to add, or was that DElta only?

 

Delta only, and literally the very last part of the very last F-14 cruise.

[Maxthrust]

finished, complete and released F-14A and F-14B.

[WobblyFlops]

6 hours ago, Tank50us said:

The issue is that much of the documentation is either locked deep in the USN and Grumman Archives, or has been destroyed to prevent it from falling into the hands of the Iranians.

It's neither locked by the Navy nor is it destroyed. They are ITAR restricted items, which means they likely never be available to the public legally. ITAR is not something that makes sense, considering than ordinary civilians can purchase off the shelf items that have documentations that are restricted by ITAR in the same way and exporting those to non US persons (or uploading them to the Internet) would warrant the same legal response. Oh, and this is not something exclusive to the F-14D or anything like that. I'd be willing the bet the same problem will come up with the A-6E once that becomes the flagship project. 

[NeedzWD40]

7 hours ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

embrace insanity fully and make the Grumman-proposed Super Tomcat 21.

I gotcha:

AI can use all that gear just fine, kinda cool. So on that subject, even if we couldn't have a flyable F-14D, it'd be nice to have one as an AI asset.

[CarbonFox]

The F-14B (Upgrade) would be the cherry on top to this already terrific module if it becomes a reality down the pipeline and would be worth paying alittle extra for. Certainly seems more possible compared to getting the Super Tomcat.

[Gunslinger22]

1 hour ago, CarbonFox said:

The F-14B (Upgrade) would be the cherry on top to this already terrific module if it becomes a reality down the pipeline and would be worth paying alittle extra for. Certainly seems more possible compared to getting the Super Tomcat.

I’d personally like to see a block 60/70 A, with the beaver tail, different cockpit layout with the earlier hud tapes and TID functionality. 70’s tomcats would be amazing. We already have too many modern MFD simulators in DCS. 

[RaisedByWolves]

Glove vanes would be missing.

[Jackjack171]

1 hour ago, Gunslinger22 said:

 We already have too many modern MFD simulators in DCS. 

For some reason, visions of an F-4J are in my head now! 

[LanceCriminal86]

9 hours ago, Gunslinger22 said:

I’d personally like to see a block 60/70 A, with the beaver tail, different cockpit layout with the earlier hud tapes and TID functionality. 70’s tomcats would be amazing. We already have too many modern MFD simulators in DCS. 

60 and 65 were the "production" but really pre-production and test jets that went to Pax River, VX-4, PMTC, and some to VF-124, where they generally stayed or were mothballed until rebuilt in the 80s.

[Swordsman422]

I actually second a wish one day for the 70/75-GRs, and least as a visual model. I'll take a pass on the P-412 engine. I know there were only ~ a hundred of them but how they got frankensteined over the years fascinates me, and until the early 1990s were kept a match in capability to the more modern blocks. BuNo 159025 is at the museum at Patriots Point, and it's so interesting to see a jet that is a fully modern F-14A in front and vintage 1970's relic in the back. Adding to this argument, the 70/75 served longer than the B(U) did and wouldn't need avionics modelling beyond the scope of the module to create.

[Coreyhkh1]

A d would be awesome but a B(U) I think would be more realistic I would pay 50 or 60 for it in a heart beat.

[Uxi]

It would be awesome!  I'd be happy with the F-14B with Sparrowhawk and PTID.  That would rock.  F-14D is another animal.

[Tank50us]

2 hours ago, Gypsy 1-1 said:

Also keep in mind that the B(U)'s weren't even uniform by defenition. They only got the Sparrowhawk HUD pretty late for example. And frankly, apart from DFCS, PTID and JDAM it wouldn't differ much from our regular B, considering how much work would be required. A D model would be internally pretty much a completely new airplane, however with a lot more processing power, especially for the radar and WCS as well as having an IRST, which is more than likely highly classified to this day since more modern systems are rumored to be based on it. While certainly cool and capable I don't think a 14D is really needed - not many were built to begin with and only operated towards the tail-end of the Tomcat's lifetime. There certainly are many other iconic jets from different eras that deserve to be faithfully represented within DCS.

Not many Su25Ts (as seen in DCS) or Su33s were built either, yet, we have them in the game. You can even run into situations where more of both are in the air than actually existed in the real world. The totals were 11 and 35 respectively. Compare that to 37 new Ds were built from scratch, along with 14 converted from As (a total of 51).