Jump to content

About Mirage F1


M F1
 Share

Recommended Posts

Here is a thread dedicated to information about the Mirage F1  (a link to the source is welcome)

To start, here is an article on the reasons for the choice of the Mirage F1 by Spain... and thanks to which we will be able to fly on this plane in DCS

to be very fast, apart from the qualities of the aircraft, the choice of acquisition also takes into account diplomatic ties and industrial partnerships.

https://greatbustardsflight.blogspot.com/2017/01/la-dimension-politica-del-mirage-f-1.html

 


Edited by M F1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there an English version available? Or an alternate link where we can actually select the text so we can run it through Deepl ourselves?

Spoiler

Ryzen 9 5900X | 64GB G.Skill TridentZ 3600 CL16 | Gigabyte RX6900XT | ASUS ROG Strix X570-E GAMING | Samsung 960Pro NVMe 1TB | HP Reverb G2
Pro Flight Trainer Puma | VIRPIL MT-50CM2 base/grip with 200 mm S-curve extension + CM3 throttle + CP2/3 + FSSB R3L + VPC Rotor TCS Plus base with SharKa-50 grip mounted on Monstertech MFC-1 | TPR rudder pedals

My in-game DCS settings (PD 1.0 SteamSS 80%):

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://greatbustardsflight.blogspot.com/2017/01/la-dimension-politica-del-mirage-f-1.html

“All The political dimension of the Mirage F-1

Modern aircraft have four dimensions: wingspan, length, height, and policy. - Sir Sydney Camm»

Why did Spain acquire the Mirage F-1 instead of the F-16? I have been asked this question some time when comparing the American plane and the French plane. In the famous "contract of the century", by which the air forces of Denmark, Belgium, Holland and Norway acquired the F-16, Spain should have been involved. But it didn't, and for better or worse we had to deal with the Mirage F-1 (called C.14 in EA terminology). I remember that in 1986 I was at my parents' house waiting for a destination and the General Headquarters of the Air Force told me by phone (there was no email at the time) that they were sending me to the Mixed Wing No. 46 based in Gando, framed in what was then It was the Canary Islands Air Command. My first assignment as a weapons specialist was precisely an Air Base equipped with the Mirage F-1EE. In the photo that opens the post I am in the cockpit of one of these planes in the weapons hangar. It's been 31 years since this.

To begin with, it must be said that the Mirage F-1 was once a modern air superiority fighter with a secondary ground attack capability thanks to its electronic equipment and inertial system. In addition, it must be recognized that aesthetically it was very beautiful. Spain came to have a large number and at that time became the spearhead of the Spanish military aviation. The first 15 Mirage F-1C aircraft arrived at the Base de los Llanos in Albacete in 1975 after a complicated negotiation process. In this process, a number of industrial counterparties were obtained for CASA, as usually happens when a significant investment is made in war material. What many do not know is that arms sales at the national level entail a great effort in terms of bilateral relations between the countries involved. What is bought is not actually a certain type of aircraft. Using the correct terminology, what is acquired is a "weapon system" with all that that implies. Weapon systems are defined as the combination of weapons, materials, and equipment necessary to accomplish an operational mission. Payments are not only "cold and cold" money or trade agreements, such as providing oranges to the selling country. Many other geopolitical factors intervene that go beyond the purely economic and have very important repercussions at almost all levels (including the scientific and technological development of a country). the american friend In the Spain of the last years of the "dictabanda" and during the transition, it was a matter of re-establishing a relationship between France and Spain that was always complicated and that had been in the background since the 1950s. Indeed, after the opening of the regime, the Americans entered Spain in 1953 with the signing of the Madrid Pacts and built the first Air Bases with asphalt runways in our country. They brought a lot of money and also the first jet planes (the T-33 "Shooting Star" and the F-86 Sabre) and later, in the 1960s, the first Mach 2 supersonic planes (the F-104 Starfighter), the F-5 and in the 70s the powerful Phantom F-4 arrived thanks to the "Peace Alpha" program. The French influence at that time was only in cultural matters. The French ceased to be major exporters of war material and the United States kept all the business related to defense in our country. Although all things American were attractive, they weren't really refined. In the 1970s, girls in Spain continued to go to the Alianza Francesa to study the language of the neighboring country. Simply the English language was "demode". In those years, myself, I had opted for German (French always seemed cheesy when spoken by a boy). Something changes over time The advantages of the trade and military agreement with the US decline as Spain's interests are affected. The issue of the Sahara and the non-authorization of the Americans to use our airplanes (Phantom F-4) of North American construction was an important point to shamelessly look at France again. The neighboring country offers not only to provide us with state-of-the-art aircraft, but also authorizes the unrestricted use and even the re-export of the goods sold to Spain. France also showed that it was not only interested in selling equipment, but also in cooperating. With the Mirage planes would come the industrial support that would later allow Construcciones Aeronáuticas to enter the AIRBUS group. Not only that, large industrial investments would also bring political support. The subject of the ETA was important for the Spanish government, like the entry into the EEC. When, in 1970, General Díez Alegría gave the US and France a list of what Spain needed, and the French offer was perfectly suited to their requests, the Spanish government signed the Agreement on Technical and Industrial Cooperation on Aeronautical Material that later it crystallized in the signing of the General Treaty of Military Cooperation that regulated the meetings between ministers, the exchange of military training or the transfer of technical and logistical information. Sud-Aviation, Dassault, Matra or Turbomeca, among many others, finally entered our country's market.

The adoption of the Mirage brought several logistical problems and many differences when it came to adapting the French way of working. This was a very big change for the Spanish Air Force accustomed to North American material. The new French material manuals were very different from the American ones. Manuals had to be translated from French to Spanish or read directly with a dictionary in hand. I remember that the material we worked with in those years seemed "soft" in terms of robustness compared to the Phantom, for example. The accessibility of the French fighter for maintenance purposes was far below North American standards. The Mirage F-1 was an intermediate step between the Mach 2 F-104 aircraft and the more modern F-18. In June 2013, after more than 35 years of service in the Air Force, the Mirage F-1 was retired, being replaced by the modern Eurofighter. Mirage F-1s throughout their operational lives underwent many upgrade programs with the installation of new equipment. In order to extend their operational life, the Mirage F-1s were equipped with modern electronic systems, including countermeasure systems and those related to their Thomson CSF Cyrano IV radar.

Now that they are no longer part of the EA's inventory, they could be sold by Spain to recover part of the investment that was made at the time. But the political dimension of the apparatus still seems to be present. The sale operation to Argentina ended up being frustrated. Our country came under pressure from the British government, precisely because part of the improvements (countermeasures among them) are British-made. The United Kingdom feared that this capacity would be used against them in another eventual war, like the one it held in 1982 with the South American country over the Falklands. In the end, the laborious process of the sale, which was already well advanced, could not be carried out."

image.png

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some information on the first bases that hosted the Mirage F1

Do you perhaps have data to share on the bases that have hosted these planes in other countries (Spain -Los Llanos/Albacete, Greece, South Africa, Morocco, Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Libya, Ecuador) ?

The first base to receive this plane was the air base of Reims located not far from the vineyards of Champagne (north-eastern France).

Operational in 1928, this base (numbered 112) was notably bombarded at the start of the Second World War (10/05).

In December 1973, the aerodrome saw the arrival of the first Mirage F1 to replace the Vautour II-Ns of the 30th Normandie-Niemen fighter squadron. This base called BA-112 (Marin la Meslée) also hosted the transformation squadron of pilots then student pilots on the F1 mirage from 1988 until 2005 (33rd Lorraine fighter squadron)...and again in 2008. And to think that the dedicated F1-B two-seater mirage of the French Air Force only arrived in 1980, 8 years after the F1-C. The two-seater version was made at the request of Kuwait (and also ordered by France, Spain, Jordan and Iraq).

After its role dedicated to hunting, the base will also be dedicated to the transformation of pilots and then to reconnaissance from 1994 with the F1-CR (previously based in Strasbourg) of the reconnaissance squadrons 2/33 Savoie and 1/33 Belfort. The reorganization of the French armed forces led to the closure of the Champagne base in June 2011.

http://www.opex360.com/2011/06/30/la-base-aerienne-de-reims-a-ferme-ses-portes/

Note to readers: although this air base was placed near the vineyards, it seems that this aircraft was never equipped with bottles that could be dropped to treat targets. However, perhaps under pressure from some commentators, Aerges will consider integrating such a "weapon" on the Mirage.

@Vibora, in that case, tell me and I'll send you something to do the modeling tests... empty or full bottles according to your choice 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Los Llanos (Spain) air base :

The first Mirage F1s arrived in Spain in June 1975 at Los Llanos air base in Albacete (300 km southeast of Madrid). But I have no information on the names of the first pilot except that it was probably not Don Quijote de la Mancha.

This air base previously dedicated to transport was dedicated to air superiority with the arrival of the Mirage F1-CE. For this was created Wing 14 (Ala 14) in 1975 and its 141 squadron which hosted these aircraft. Subsequently, in 1980, a second squadron, the 142, was born on this base.

On this aerodrome, the pilots achieved 100,000 flight hours on the French-designed aircraft in 1991. Subsequently, the air base received the first copies of the modernized F1-M version in 1999. These gave way to the Eurofighter in 2013.

In addition to the long period of use by the Spanish Air Force of the Mirage F1 on this air base (almost 40 years), another national particularity ; the Mirage F1 could be equipped with a locally manufactured bomb, the BR-250 (EXPAL).

@Vibora : Don't worry, the BR-250 will be enough to arm the plane. There will be no need to send you Manchego to do new armament tests... 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/11/2022 at 11:15 PM, M F1 said:

@Vibora : Don't worry, the BR-250 will be enough to arm the plane. There will be no need to send you Manchego to do new armament tests... 😉

Yes, don't worry, no need to send Manchego cheese, that already passed enough tests 😄

  • Like 2

Roberto "Vibora" Seoane

Alas Rojas

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

sigpic97175_2_small.pngAERGES-LOGO-sin_fondo_small.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Here are the different videos on the baby of Aerges

the next videos will be added there... including those of ASMR from Mirage F1 😇

  • Tutorials :

by RedKite :

F1CE Cold Start Tutorial

F1CE Take off, Landing, Flight Tutorial

F1CE TACAN Navigation Tutorial

F1CE Rockets, Bombs and Guns Ground Attack

 

 

  • Teasers :

Preview  may 2021

Mirage F1 Teaser  Dec 2021 Aerges/ DCS

Spin  march 2021


Edited by M F1
added link to new video
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Regarding the Mirage F1 radar, below is the link to a post explaining the origin of the Cyrano IV but above all its operating mode.
It is explained that this radar has 3 modes :
1/ Air/Air
2/ Close combat mode (Canon and Magic)
3/ Air/Ground (visualization by radar of the terrain in front of the aircraft)

The adjustment of the radar being done from a specific joystick .

The Air/Air mode is broken down into 4 phases :
- search for the target
-target lock
-pursuit phase (bringing the aircraft into a firing position of -the armament on the target)
avoidance of the target after the shot (clearance).

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/cyrano-radar-family.37016/

No doubt that some will be able to complete these explanations

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

I love reading about the political and technical details behind a particular acquisition and history of the Weapons systems.

It gives me all sort of ideas for What If scenarios and other fictional acquisitions.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/2/2022 at 10:03 PM, M F1 said:

Here are the different videos on the baby of Aerges

the next videos will be added there... including those of ASMR from Mirage F1 😇

  • Tutorials :

by RedKite :

F1CE Cold Start Tutorial

F1CE Take off, Landing, Flight Tutorial

F1CE TACAN Navigation Tutorial

F1CE Rockets, Bombs and Guns Ground Attack

 

 

  • Teasers :

Preview  may 2021

Mirage F1 Teaser  Dec 2021 Aerges/ DCS

Spin  march 2021

 Air-to-Air radar june 2022

 Air-to-Ground radar june 2022

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick questions:
1) Will the CE have INS (or any other type of coordinate capable nav system like Viggen or Skyhawk)? How about the other planned F1 variants?
2) Will the CE have air refueling capability? How about the other planned F1 variants?

  • Like 1

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@QuiGonI remember reading on this forum that the EE version should have a proper attack and nav system, likely INS and/or Doppler-based. The EE will also be the first version with a refueling probe.

The BE will probably just be a CE but with no cannon, less internal fuel and a second cockpit.

The F1M will probably be a modernized EE (with probe) but I am not sure about that.

  • Thanks 1

 

Specs: Samsung Odyssey MR (VR)

MoBo ASUS Z97-K ; CPU i5-4690K 4.1GHz w/CM Hyper212 Evo; GPU GTX 980Ti; RAM 2400MHz CL11 2x8GB; SSD Samsung EVO 250GB (x2); HDD WD Blue 1TB; Case Corsair Obsidian 450D

 

Thrustmast T.16000M TWCS HOTAS, Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals

 

DCS modules: NTTR, Normandy, M-2000C, Mi-8, SA342, FC3, Ka-50, UH-1H, Bf.109K4, FW-190D9, P-51D, Hawk T.1A, CA

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Quick questions:
1) Will the CE have INS (or any other type of coordinate capable nav system like Viggen or Skyhawk)? How about the other planned F1 variants?
2) Will the CE have air refueling capability? How about the other planned F1 variants?

CE will have neither INS nav, nor aerial refueling, but EE should have them, which will be added later into the module.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Badger1-1 said:

as stated by @Bremspropellerin another thread(the guy loves manuals) only radio navigation, no ins etc. for the CE

20 minutes ago, Big-foot said:

@QuiGonI remember reading on this forum that the EE version should have a proper attack and nav system, likely INS and/or Doppler-based. The EE will also be the first version with a refueling probe.

The BE will probably just be a CE but with no cannon, less internal fuel and a second cockpit.

The F1M will probably be a modernized EE (with probe) but I am not sure about that.

12 minutes ago, WinterH said:

CE will have neither INS nav, nor aerial refueling, but EE should have them, which will be added later into the module.

Thanks guys, this makes it much clearer what to expect! :thumbup:

Sounds like the F1CE will also be a good stand-in for the Argentinian Dagger/Mirage III for Falkland War missions :smile:

  • Like 1

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, QuiGon said:

Sounds like the F1CE will also be a good stand-in for the Argentinian Dagger/Mirage III for Falkland War missions

Yes and no.

Yes: It's a Mirage.

No: It has significantly more range/ payload-range than the MIIIEA and the Dagger and hence is a poor representation of the operational constraints faced by the Argies.

 

Internal fuel:

Mirage IIIEA (all are serial no >465) 3005 liters*

Dagger (Mirage 5F) 3470 liters

Mirage F1C 4300 liters

____

* configuration: SEPR rocket not installed, cannons installed

So ein Feuerball, JUNGE!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Yes and no.

Yes: It's a Mirage.

No: It has significantly more range/ payload-range than the MIIIEA and the Dagger and hence is a poor representation of the operational constraints faced by the Argies.

 

Internal fuel:

Mirage IIIEA (all are serial no >465) 3005 liters*

Dagger (Mirage 5F) 3470 liters

Mirage F1C 4300 liters

____

* configuration: SEPR rocket not installed, cannons installed

Thanks, that's good to know, but I think this can be adressed by limiting the aircraft fuel (and the fuel on the airbase to prevent refueling) :thumbup:

If you have any idea for another aircraft that would works better as a stand-in I'm all ears :smile:


Edited by QuiGon

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...