CPG in Multiplayer?

[ustio]

Okay both station has control right, and you are probably going to fly it for combat in online since you are kibda limited if you seat in the back for combat. 

 

So i was wondering if its a good idea if the CPG is the host station and leave the starting procedure to AI

[Pikey]

In other words you/people want access to the CPG seat in MP.
I'm sure this is a popular sentiment. I don't know the level of visibility of this request but I'm behind the rationale 100%. It would be a good question for the Team.

[Hotdognz]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:11 PM, Pikey said:

In other words you/people want access to the CPG seat in MP.
I'm sure this is a popular sentiment. I don't know the level of visibility of this request but I'm behind the rationale 100%. It would be a good question for the Team.

For MP its a must, no good being only able to fly from the rear seat im MP as it will take the fun away from the bird, I have the Hind 24 and really dont bother with it in MP due to not being able to jump in the front seat.

[mrsteel]

If I’m understanding the question right, I’d really enjoy the ability to swap seats while flying in multiplayer, that’s my only gripe with the Hind currently.

[NWGJulian]

with the hind at least, i think it works really well with petrovic ai in the front seat for the atgm attacks. if it keeps working like that in the apache, i dont see much of a trouble here. 

of course, with a human in the front, it works muuuch better, and obviously it would be super cool if i could swap seats in MP. but, dont you guys think that this would be kinda OP in MP? 

Edited September 9, 2021 by NWGJulian

[MrReynolds]

WOW, didn't know this.

I would have expected to hop between the two seats.  Doesn't the F-14 allow for this in MP? (I don't know as I don't own it).

 

Definately a +1 for swapping between the two!

[Northstar98]

Personally, in MP, if a seat is unoccupied by another player, you should be able to swap seats at will, just as you can do in SP.

[NWGJulian]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb MrReynolds:

WOW, didn't know this.

I would have expected to hop between the two seats.  Doesn't the F-14 allow for this in MP? (I don't know as I don't own it).

 

Definately a +1 for swapping between the two!

nope, not possible in MP

[MrReynolds]

59 minutes ago, NWGJulian said:

nope, not possible in MP

Well.  Well well well..........................................................
That is a BIGGY

 

Still purchasing <1 minute after pre-purchase, but I do NOT want to fly with other people in the same helo.  Same flight, yes - but I would want to do both jobs like I already do in the FA-18 (fly, A-A, A-G etc).

 

Hey ho.  Time will tell.

Thanks for the answer.

 

EDIT:  Thinking about it I now realise why it seemed such a silly question......

The Gazelle allows for seat swapping.

Edited September 9, 2021 by MrReynolds

[QuiGon]

37 minutes ago, MrReynolds said:

The Gazelle allows for seat swapping.

 

In multiplayer?

[MrReynolds]

10 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

 

In multiplayer?

Yep.

Edited September 9, 2021 by MrReynolds

[QuiGon]

8 minutes ago, MrReynolds said:

Yep.

 

I'm not familiar with the Gazelle, so not sure what they did there, but it's a limitation of the DCS engine, that a multicrew aircraft does not allow for seat switching when flying alone in MP.

 

With the introduction of multicrewing for the Huey ED offered a workaround for this: Mission designers can designate specific Hueys as "Solo Flights", meaning they can't be used for multicrewing but therefor players can switch seats.

Edited September 9, 2021 by QuiGon

[MrReynolds]

2 hours ago, QuiGon said:

 

I'm not familiar with the Gazelle, so not sure what they did there, but it's a limitation of the DCS engine, that a multicrew aircraft does not allow for seat switching when flying alone in MP.

 

With the introduction of multicrewing for the Huey ED offered a workaround for this: Mission designers can designate specific Hueys as "Solo Flights", meaning they can't be used for multicrewing but therefor players can switch seats.

 

So.

On the 4y server they have pilot and "instructor pilot".

I CAN swap seats and I have also (by mistake) shared the cockpit with another before.

[Sabre_Ewan]

4 hours ago, MrReynolds said:

... but I would want to do both jobs like I already do in the FA-18 (fly, A-A, A-G etc)...

 

 

But the 18 is a single seat aircraft, therefore you're only doing one job.

[WobblyFlops]

12 hours ago, NWGJulian said:

dont you guys think that this would be kinda OP in MP? 

Why would it be? 

[MrReynolds]

49 minutes ago, Sabre_Ewan said:

 

But the 18 is a single seat aircraft, therefore you're only doing one job.

FA-18.

Yes.  Totally different aircraft............

 

But I fly it

Navigate it.

Use targeting systems

Deploy weapons.

 

Sounds like indeed....a single seat fighter.

 

The Apache

I fly it - back seat

Navigate it - back seat

Use targetting systems - front seat

Deploy weapons - front seat.

 

If it's handled like the gazelle, I can still control the aircraft (right / front seat) whilst targeting and deploying weapons in the (left / front seat)

 

If you think about it, it's actually easier than the A-10 / single seats, because you can have two cockpits setup exactly how you like it, and ONE button allows you to swap "modes".   Pretty much like the games simulators of yore (Apache Longbow and Enemy engaged for example).  One button swaps to a different seat with different MFDs etc.  Pretty swanky actually.

 

I guess it's down to personal preference.  I myself would expect /want to swap seats.

Edited September 9, 2021 by MrReynolds

[MrReynolds]

5 hours ago, kgillers3 said:

I see what you're getting at, in reality your MPDs will likely be the same between the seats, maybe you'll have the TSD at a different level. why don't you just fly from front seat? In reality if you're doing any kind of running engagement you will be forced to fly from the front seat.  I do understand the desire to single pilot and have the functionality of really the front seat with the ability to swap seats, unless run up / start up is a thing you really wanna do. 

 

Sounds sensible to me 

Startup (dare I say) isn't my thing!

[fargo007]

The Apache cannot be started from the front seat, nor can the external lights be managed so there's that.....

[Frederf]

Multi-crew aircraft in MP can be configured for 1 user operation or 2 user operation. Unfortunately this must be baked into the mission. Ideally this configuration would be alterable on-the-fly. When no human is in the other operator slot the other human operator would have free reign over both positions as in SP and when a human joins this reverts to normal dual control.

[Hook47]

On 9/9/2021 at 6:31 AM, Northstar98 said:

Personally, in MP, if a seat is unoccupied by another player, you should be able to swap seats at will, just as you can do in SP.

This. +1 for ED to look at making this as a feature, it would be a great problem solver for aircraft like this, and hopefully Razbam could leverage it for aircraft like the F-15E, and Heatblur for the F-14.

[jubuttib]

On 9/9/2021 at 6:05 PM, MrReynolds said:

EDIT:  Thinking about it I now realise why it seemed such a silly question......

The Gazelle allows for seat swapping.

 

The Gazelle is a bit of a special case anyway. I tried multicrewing the Gazelle with a friend recently, and while we did in fact both get in the choppah, none of the button mappings for the second seat did anything. IIRC I could click on the cockpit buttons, but none of the bindings actually did anything. Couldn't slew the camera, nothing.

 

Weirdly some multicrew aircraft have separate control profiles for the different seats (like the Mi-24 and the F-14) while others don't (Gazelle and Huey). At first I thought the Gazelle didn't work exactly because all the controls are lumped under the same profile, but then remembered the Huey does it as well. It seems like going forward ED is going to be favoring the "separate control profiles for each station" method, based on the Hind at least.

 

Should probably try with using like Parsec or something. Even when I was sitting at the co-pilot seat in the Gazelle, HIS slew controls etc. were working just fine. So I guess if I wanted to play the co-pilot, we could try the following:

 

1. Map an Xbox gamepad to the second seat controls on his (the pilot's) end

2. Connect via Parsec or Steam "remote play together", but don't watch the actual video stream, just send over the button presses and stick movements

3. Launch DCS on both our ends, get into a chopper together

4. Use my Xbox gamepad here to send inputs to his game there, and watch the results in my DCS

 

As far as DCS is concerned only the pilot's computer is sending control inputs, but I can sit in the other seat. Sounds like exactly the kind of kludge that I find amusing, I must try this out soon.

[NWGJulian]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb jubuttib:

The Gazelle is a bit of a special case anyway. I tried multicrewing the Gazelle with a friend recently, and while we did in fact both get in the choppah, none of the button mappings for the second seat did anything. IIRC I could click on the cockpit buttons, but none of the bindings actually did anything. Couldn't slew the camera, nothing.

 

Weirdly some multicrew aircraft have separate control profiles for the different seats (like the Mi-24 and the F-14) while others don't (Gazelle and Huey). At first I thought the Gazelle didn't work exactly because all the controls are lumped under the same profile, but then remembered the Huey does it as well. It seems like going forward ED is going to be favoring the "separate control profiles for each station" method, based on the Hind at least.

 

Should probably try with using like Parsec or something. Even when I was sitting at the co-pilot seat in the Gazelle, HIS slew controls etc. were working just fine. So I guess if I wanted to play the co-pilot, we could try the following:

 

1. Map an Xbox gamepad to the second seat controls on his (the pilot's) end

2. Connect via Parsec or Steam "remote play together", but don't watch the actual video stream, just send over the button presses and stick movements

3. Launch DCS on both our ends, get into a chopper together

4. Use my Xbox gamepad here to send inputs to his game there, and watch the results in my DCS

 

As far as DCS is concerned only the pilot's computer is sending control inputs, but I can sit in the other seat. Sounds like exactly the kind of kludge that I find amusing, I must try this out soon.

i think it does make sense, because in the huey and in the gazelle, there is basically just one single cockpit, for both in the front. they have both access to the same buttons and switches, so it does make sense to have just one single profile.

 

in the f14 and in the hind (and also in the apache), both cockpits are unique. the guy in the front cannot press the buttons from the guy in the back, and vice versa. of course, some buttons are redundant, especially in the apache, but thats not the point. they are still both seperate and unique.

 

i hope they keep up having different key profiles. even the own profile for the scope in the hind, makes absolutelly sense to me, because it is much more easy to bind everything -> i hope they are doing it for the gunner‘s TEDAC handles too, in the apache! otherwise most of us will need an extra modifier to bind them. (maybe a button like „tedac control“, to toggle to the tedac? similar to the aiming profile in the hind)

Edited September 13, 2021 by NWGJulian

[Hook47]

4 hours ago, jubuttib said:

The Gazelle is a bit of a special case anyway. I tried multicrewing the Gazelle with a friend recently, and while we did in fact both get in the choppah, none of the button mappings for the second seat did anything. IIRC I could click on the cockpit buttons, but none of the bindings actually did anything. Couldn't slew the camera, nothing.

 

Weirdly some multicrew aircraft have separate control profiles for the different seats (like the Mi-24 and the F-14) while others don't (Gazelle and Huey). At first I thought the Gazelle didn't work exactly because all the controls are lumped under the same profile, but then remembered the Huey does it as well. It seems like going forward ED is going to be favoring the "separate control profiles for each station" method, based on the Hind at least.

 

Should probably try with using like Parsec or something. Even when I was sitting at the co-pilot seat in the Gazelle, HIS slew controls etc. were working just fine. So I guess if I wanted to play the co-pilot, we could try the following:

 

1. Map an Xbox gamepad to the second seat controls on his (the pilot's) end

2. Connect via Parsec or Steam "remote play together", but don't watch the actual video stream, just send over the button presses and stick movements

3. Launch DCS on both our ends, get into a chopper together

4. Use my Xbox gamepad here to send inputs to his game there, and watch the results in my DCS

 

As far as DCS is concerned only the pilot's computer is sending control inputs, but I can sit in the other seat. Sounds like exactly the kind of kludge that I find amusing, I must try this out soon.

 

LOL. I applaud your creativity in coming up with a multiplayer solution. It's a shame multicrew in the Gazelle is such a mess, particularly when we now have several aircraft with totally stable and usable multicrew. 

[QuiGon]

On 9/9/2021 at 8:52 PM, MrReynolds said:

So.

On the 4y server they have pilot and "instructor pilot".

I CAN swap seats and I have also (by mistake) shared the cockpit with another before.

 

As someone who doesn't own the Gazelle I was wondering how Polychop made it work to have multicrewing and the ability to swap seats at the same time.

Now I now, they haven't made it work:

 

5 hours ago, jubuttib said:

The Gazelle is a bit of a special case anyway. I tried multicrewing the Gazelle with a friend recently, and while we did in fact both get in the choppah, none of the button mappings for the second seat did anything. IIRC I could click on the cockpit buttons, but none of the bindings actually did anything. Couldn't slew the camera, nothing.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by QuiGon

[jubuttib]

6 hours ago, Hook47 said:

 

LOL. I applaud your creativity in coming up with a multiplayer solution. It's a shame multicrew in the Gazelle is such a mess, particularly when we now have several aircraft with totally stable and usable multicrew. 

To be fair to Polychop, as I understand it the exact reason it's such a mess is that they got fed up with ED faffing around with different multicrew solutions and having to do hacky stuff to get it to work at all, so they decided to wait until ED establishes a proper method of doing multicrew. Which they have been doing recently, with the Hind etc. Then of course they got busy with the Kiowa. The current hope seems to be that once the Kiowa is out they're gonna start working on the Gazelle too (lack of manpower to work on both at the same time, and switching between projects constantly isn't easy, so focusing on one at a time), and with ED's new multicrew system in place we might finally get functional multicrew on the Gazelle as well.

 

That's the hopeful way of looking at the situation, at any rate.