Next Gen VR Headsets.

[chaos]

So I’ve watched the Oculus (Meta) event yesterday and was quite disappointed with their latest offering; Quest Pro. Although mainly targeted for enterprise and developers, it offers a glimpse at what the gamers can expect in the not too distant future.  I’m willing to part with quite a bit of cash for the right headset but this isn’t going to be “The One”. At €1800 (and $1500 in the States?), this piece of hardware is expensive and offers very little extra compared the previous generation headsets. The resolution is supposedly the same(!!??) as the Quest 2 but, due to different type of lenses, offers better image quality.  How much better, I don’t know but it can’t be “Next Gen” better in my estimation… It is wireless which is not that important to me personally as I’m using it at my desk for flight simulation only.

I’ve also watched a presentation by John Carmack which was quite interesting. The main “news-bombshell” being that they (META) can’t get foveated rendering done with any meaningful increase in performance. The latency is just too much and they’re going to look at other ways to increase performance across the board. Never mind the fact that very few games, including DCS, allow for foveated rendering at all but that is beside the point. This is not the Magic Bullet we’ve all been wanting or so it seems. How’s Varjo doing?

My hopes are with Valve’s next gen (Deckard) but it’s awfully quiet on the western front lately. Any news on when this thing is going to ship?

Edited October 12, 2022 by chaos

[Supmua]

The Quest Pro is more of an AR headset with some cool technology.  AR could replace VR in the future if it allows you to visualize your peripherals such as HOTAS or button boxes while playing in a meaningful way.  The problem is with the tech which is still relatively in infancy state and at that price it's not a mass market device, battery life is also rather poor.  I'm also skeptical about the image clarity despite the claim of having much better clarity than Quest 2 at the same resolution.  It might work well in corporate environment, virtual meeting, etc but I don't think it will be ideal for flightsims, but won't know until I try it (temped since I'm a big VR fan).

Right now the Varjo is the HMD that offers the best image quality, but it's also plagued with quality control issues (both software and hardware) and the software development side is kind of slow--people are still waiting for motion smoothing option.

Pimax's upcoming HMD is supposed to rival Varjo Aero in terms of image quality plus extras, but they don't have a good track record of releasing things on time.

HTC teased a new HMD a few days ago but have been quiet since.

I don't think Valve will release a new HMD any time soon as their main focus right now seems to be the Steam Deck which is apparently selling very well, but who knows.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Supmua

[SlipHavoc]

From what I can tell, the Valve Index still seems to have the largest vertical FOV of almost any headset, and that seems like an underappreciated VR stat for flight simming specifically.  A large vertical FOV allows you to glance down into your cockpit or at your HUD or gunsight while watching the bandit in a turn fight, and seems like it would be at least as important as the horizontal FOV.  I think the Index also has a very large visual sweetspot (the area that remains relatively sharp and in focus as you swivel your eyes around the FOV), which also seems really important since moving your eyes is much faster than moving your head.  I'm watching to see if any of the next gen headsets improve on those stats in particular, otherwise I'll probably stick with my Index for a while.

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

When I used to fly, the index had an almost invisible transition out of the sweet spot (aka it was essentially all clear). Did not get that “scuba mask” effect either with the FOV. My biggest issue was getting enough resolution to actually dog fight whilst not getting into slide shows and hiccups.  
Although there are bigger systems now, mine is no slouch. 
Sitting it out until the program becomes more optimized (whatever that eventually may mean) then swap in the newest graphics card assuming it works with everything else I have. 
won’t be flying or buying until then. 
VR is really cool though!!!

[Shrimp]

5 hours ago, Supmua said:

Right now the Varjo is the HMD that offers the best image quality, but it's also plagued with quality control issues (both software and hardware) and the software development side is kind of slow--people are still waiting for motion smoothing option.

My experience with the Aero up to now is very good.

The only issues I have is the lack of sound and chromatic aberration when not looking at the center of the screens, but both were known beforehand anyway… and vertical FOV.

The software has been working very well and the firmware updates solved ‘all’ (almost) the issues - especially distortion - except  chromatic aberration on my system.

Hardware wise no problem at all so far and it has a quality feel that I hope will last for very very long.

You’re right about motion smoothing but I had it off with the Index and don’t really miss it. Maybe the RTX 4090 and ‘soon’ to come DCS multicore engine will render motion smoothing obsolete by having steady 90 fps. At least I dream…

Cheers!!!

Edited October 12, 2022 by Shrimp
Added vertical FOV

[dburne]

Been running my Aero since Jan of this year and still absolutely loving it, and until recently due to surgery I was doing a lot of hours every day. I should be resuming here again very soon hopefully.

Yeah like every headset out there it has some shortcomings, but for what I want out of a headset it rocks. I do not see anything on the horizon that I will replace it with for sure.

Edited October 12, 2022 by dburne

[Morat]

Is there any news from HP? They seem to have gone very quiet on the Reverb line recently

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Morat said:

Is there any news from HP? They seem to have gone very quiet on the Reverb line recently

There’s a rumor floating around that they might stop making VR headsets, hope that’s not true as they’re the only WMR HMD Co left besides Lenovo.

Unfortunately the only Co that I can see that would revitalize VR is Sony which won’t be PC compatible.  Their headset has all the right specs (pancake OLED, HDR, etc.) and is designed for the mass, plus software and game development that will take full advantages of those features.  We have some good hardware on the PC side but software lags behind badly and most games only treat VR headsets as monitors.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Morat said:

Is there any news from HP? They seem to have gone very quiet on the Reverb line recently

 

Microsoft teaming up with Oculus now is not going to help the cause for HP either. But yeah I too have been hearing the same rumor as Supmua regarding HP getting out of the VR market. Just rumor still mind you.

Edited October 13, 2022 by dburne

[VirusAM]

There’s a rumor floating around that they might stop making VR headsets, hope that’s not true as they’re the only WMR HMD Co left besides Lenovo.
Unfortunately the only Co that I can see that would revitalize VR is Sony which won’t be PC compatible.  Their headset has all the right specs (pancake OLED, HDR, etc.) and is designed for the mass, plus software and game development that will take full advantages of those features.  We have some good hardware on the PC side but software lags behind badly and most games only treat VR headsets as monitors.

Psvr is compatible with PC with some hacks and trinusVR software (never tried myself).
Probably with the psvr2 being an inside-out device with no external hardware dependencies and a single usb-c cable, those hacks will be much simpler (maybe just the software needed).

[SkateZilla]

$50 MS Releases a New VR Headset with the next Console, Xbox has nothing to compete with PSVR,

Plus any Xbox Headset is likely to work on Windows 11 (or 12), at this point as well, since 90% of Xbox One X games are cross platform with Windows 11 using the same engines.

They all need to stay away from Pentile Array OLEDs, they are hoooooooorrrriiiibbllleee looking. Stacked RGB OLEDs are the way to go.

The other thing they need to do is ditch large flat panels, 2 concaved curve panels, 1 for each eye, concaved around a smaller lense will look better than any flat screen with insanely large lense, trying to focus on px further and further away due to flat screen, curve them puppies around the lense and I garauntee you better fov and better clarity overall.

really surprised it took this long for them to start polarizing the lenses, I put coating on my lenses years ago.

Edited October 13, 2022 by SkateZilla

[Habu_69]

I reverted back to my 32" QHD monitor several months ago. I had a G2 and tried Varjo, but could not get it to function for some reason tech guys never did solve. Still very interested in VR, tho, and have been watching for further news on Panasonic MeganX. Info from initial announcements in early 2022 sounded quite promising for DCS, but release has slipped and slipped again from "summer 2022" to now some time in 2023. The silence is deafening.

[Supmua]

I don’t have high hope for the MeganX, also look what happened with the Arpara that received all the hypes back then being innovative with pancake OLED and so on.  The demand isn’t there now.  The next VR HMD will need to have some major breakthrough features or really good pricing to get people excited again.

[Morat]

Or someone needs to release a game that EVERYONE wants...

[Morat]

19 hours ago, VirusAM said:

Psvr is compatible with PC with some hacks and trinusVR software (never tried myself).
Probably with the psvr2 being an inside-out device with no external hardware dependencies and a single usb-c cable, those hacks will be much simpler (maybe just the software needed).

I have used Trinus VR to make a Samsung Gear work with Steam VR. It worked, within the limitations of that headset, but it was definitely a third party experience.

[Habu_69]

On 10/13/2022 at 3:21 PM, Supmua said:

I don’t have high hope for the MeganX, also look what happened with the Arpara that received all the hypes back then being innovative with pancake OLED and so on.  The demand isn’t there now.  The next VR HMD will need to have some major breakthrough features or really good pricing to get people excited again.

I can dream, can't I?

[Willie Nelson]

I really hope HP doesn’t get out of the game. There I was waiting for Pimax to release the 5k about four years ago and out of nowhere came the majestic piece of craftsmanship in the HP Reverb Gen 1 which I still have working like a dream. Can’t be beat for bang for buck. 
 

if they simply widened their FOV on the G2 I’d buy it straight away. 

[dburne]

Yep bang for buck is the Reverb G2 hands down.

[tomcat_driver]

Here hoping for a Quest 3 with a DP port.

[sirrah]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:01 PM, VirusAM said:

Psvr is compatible with PC with some hacks and trinusVR software (never tried myself).
Probably with the psvr2 being an inside-out device with no external hardware dependencies and a single usb-c cable, those hacks will be much simpler (maybe just the software needed).

I did try DCS with PSVR/TrinusVR a few years ago, before I took the plunge in PCVR.

My gaming laptop at that time was not powerful enough for a nice experience, but it did work. Although iirc, it only supported 3dof, so a no go imho. (but perhaps things/software changed and 6dof is now also supported).

 

More on topic;

What I don't get, but someone can probably explain to me here, is why all these next gen HMD's still have such small fov. AFAIK, only Pimax did an attempt on a high fov headset, but all new HMD's I know of, again have a fov somewhere around 110°.

Why is this?

Is there like a hardware/lens limitation maybe? Is it only because people want higher resolution headsets?

To be honest, at the moment I can't run my HP Reverb G1 at high resolution/PD settings because of my outdated system. But If I were to have a more up to date GPU, I'd gladly leave the resolution at current (lower) setting and trade in the extra headroom for a bigger fov. I think we're all missing out on that true feeling of speed, when flying close to the ground, due to the lack of proper fov.

Edited October 18, 2022 by sirrah

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

From what I have heard about Quest3, not much about FoV, the design may stick with Quest2, not the more balanced Quest Pro, but the lens will be changes and it is likely to be more expensive than Quest2. I would not keep my hopes up.

I think my next stop will be G2V2, it is a quantum leap from Quest2 already (as long as I don't hit those cable problems) as on eBay, the used ones are selling cheaper than a Quest2.

PSVR2 looks very good, though I think it is a catchup. Unfortunately, if my understanding is correct, it is not relevant to PCVR.

HL:Alyx is a must-have for all those who play VR, may be after Beat Sabre, and it was a big deal. I am not saying it is bad, the thing is, there is nothing like to keep up the hype.

Edited October 18, 2022 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[tomcat_driver]

I for one am skeptical about the G2 and its recurrent cable woes. The last thing I want is to have a bricked headset because I can't source a replacement cable; see Oculus CV1.

[Supmua]

https://mixed-news.com/en/panasonics-very-compact-vr-headset-meganex-gets-steamvr-support/
 

The MeganeX is getting SteamVR support and will work with the Index controller.  This is the one that I might consider since it’s compact and has high res micro OLED screens.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, Supmua said:

https://mixed-news.com/en/panasonics-very-compact-vr-headset-meganex-gets-steamvr-support/
 

The MeganeX is getting SteamVR support and will work with the Index controller.  This is the one that I might consider since it’s compact and has high res micro OLED screens.

 

Does not seem it would hold up to the Aero though unless I am missing something?

[Supmua]

26 minutes ago, dburne said:

Does not seem it would hold up to the Aero though unless I am missing something?

Clarity wise not as good but should be close since it’s 2560x2560 pixels.  OLED screens have near infinite contrast and true black which is their main strength, however they tend to be dimmer than non-OLED in general.  For me they’re the best type of display, and if done right the image quality could be unmatched.  Other distinctive features include 10-bit HDR mode and 120 Hz.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Supmua