Cougar or X52?

[miguez]

Gents,

 

In considering a HOTAS setup (I only have a MSFFB2 right now) I have narrowed it down to these two. I am looking for replies from people that have tried both and can do a comparison. Things like quality, response, number of buttons, etc., as they are a pretty big investment. Any information would help.

 

Thanks,

[Flyby]

if any info will help, then I'll add a bit. But first I have to tell you that I have never owned an X52. I am a Cougar owner. I am a fan of this hotas primarily because of it's program-ability through it's Foxy software. There are downsides to it: The springs are stiff, the build quality of the joystick internal has been lacking. I've sent away for replacement parts, and had to replace or clean the pots. Still, it's a honking big unit, made of metal, and feels good in my hand. I can program it to do just about anything, so complete is the software. It can be complex to program some functions, but there is plenty of help at Frugalsworld.com. GO here for all things Cougar: http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/

Also, there are plenty of expensive modifications that can be made to the Cougar, and many people have done so rather than switch to another brand of hotas. Heck, I even had a chance to buy a second one, brand new in the box some time ago. I did not pass that up. It's still in the box, just waiting.

But I'm sure the X52 is a fine stick. Someone here is probably using the X52 with Black Shark, and enjoying it immensely. Good luck which ever way you go.

Flyby out

[Michaelski]

Another option you may want to consider is the CH line of products. These are solid controllers and they all work as one unit when all plugged in. I recently jsut purchased the "Flight stick Pro" but have yet to recieve it. I have heard great things about it. I have a logitech 3d pro I was able to integrate with the CH throttle and so far it works awesome. I belive the CH products gor for roughly 100 - 110 dollars a peice.

[hannibal]

SST software sux....

[Icarus2]

I have both the X-52 and a Cougar FSSB-R2 with HS1 mod. I use the Cougar for Falcon and the X-52 for BS. My Cougar has a rigid stick so it is not realistic for a chopper, unmodded would be ok though. I like the X-52, but I had 2 go bad which Saitek replaced, good customer service.

 

If you fly F-16's mostly like me, the Cougar is best. But for versatility and pricing, go X-52.:joystick:

[Stingray]

X52 pro, the added quality is worth it

[Sunjah]

X52 pro, the added quality is worth it

 

Why? Can you give some details of what you know?

 

Thanks!

[Evader]

I also own a Cougar (5 to be exact)...too much money ;)

Two FSSB-R2's, One Uber 2, and Two stock. If they ever stop making these I'm set. The FSSB-R2 from Realsimulator is fantastic, although it costs more than the cougar itself it is worth every penny. It is the most precise flying stick you can get....PERIOD. It is the one I use almost 100%

 

Never had a X52, but I guess if cost is a factor, why not. I don't believe it is built very durable, that's my opinion from looking at them at Best Buy.

 

Also the Cougar has a crap load of hat switches and the programming can be very simple or extremely complex, so you can do much more with the cougar than the X52 control/programming wise. You can program so much to the stick and throttle that it can take a while to memorize it all.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Evader

[Mxyzpylk]

Gents,

 

In considering a HOTAS setup (I only have a MSFFB2 right now) I have narrowed it down to these two. I am looking for replies from people that have tried both and can do a comparison. Things like quality, response, number of buttons, etc., as they are a pretty big investment. Any information would help.

 

Thanks,

 

What's your budget?

 

I've owned, TM Cougar, Saitek X52 and X52 Pro, presently have CH Fighterstick USB, Pro throttle USB, Pro Pedals.

 

TM Cougar - You can use it out of the box, but, you really need to spend another $500.00 to make it really good. Great Foxy software. Still should add rudder pedals

 

Saitek X52, X52 Pro. Works out of the box. Lots of people don't like Saitek software. I never had a problem with it. Least expensive. Has twist stick rudder which isn't too bad.

 

CH Products - Great right out of the box. Excellent programming software. Stick and throttle cost about the same as the stock TM Cougar, add pedals for about $90.00 more

Edited January 9, 2009 by Mxyzpylk

[RichardG]

What stick runs on SST software?

[thereminqblank]

Miguez, if you've got your MSFFB2 force feedback working well in DCS (ie trim), you might want to keep using it in conjunction with a CH throttle or a X52 throttle. It seems like a pretty good combo.

 

RichardG, I think all of the Saitek sticks use the SST software to programme the buttons.

[CyBerkut]

What stick runs on SST software?

 

SST is Saitek's software for programming their line of controllers.

[Reticuli]

I never had any troubles with the original SST that produces dats. The newer one is supposedly frought with issues and once you install, you can never go back. I've never used the Cougar, but my X52 plus GlovePIE for auto-trimming works great.

[CyBerkut]

I never had any troubles with the original SST that produces dats. The newer one is supposedly frought with issues and once you install, you can never go back. I've never used the Cougar, but my X52 plus GlovePIE for auto-trimming works great.

 

Regarding the newer SST software (that produces the .pro files), it should be kept in mind that there is a release version, and there have have been 2 subsequent beta versions.

 

About the only shortcoming I saw in the release version, as compared to the older version that produced .dat files was the loss of the graphic representation of the controllers in the programming interface. The graphic representations made it easier to see which button, etc. you were programming in the old version. The removal of that feature was evidently much bemoaned, and the subsequent beta versions added in a different graphic that illuminated whichever button, etc. that you were editing the commands for. The betas also addressed some issues like getting (IIRC) the right control key recognized.

 

I haven't really looked at this GlovePIE solution of yours yet. Can you briefly sum up why it is better than what we have (for non-forcefeedback sticks)? Thanks!

[RedTiger]

If you just want a HOTAS because, frankly, you need one = x52 (regular version. The x52 pro is not worth the extra money, IMO. This is coming from someone who owns one).

 

If you know that sims are going to be your new favourite hobby for years to come = CH products.

[Delta53]

I have owned most HOTAS set ups out there. I still have the Cougar, X52, X36 and CH Fighterstick. I have to say that I use the Fighterstick the most. CH products are great and work well with any sim. The Cougar is really hard on your wrist ater a while unless you spend some coin on updates and mod the stick. But it has a feeling to it like no other. I guess it is the closest you come to the real thing. It's great for F4 or even LockOn but I don't use it for BS.

 

The X52 is a very nice stick but the least realistic. And I find with all the programming options you are likely to use with BS, it just doesn't offer what the Cougar and Fighterstick do. It doesn't have the amount of 4 way switches, thus you might run out of buttons uless you start to program secondary functions (too much for me).

 

So, if I had to only keep one stick I would go with my CH Fighterstick and ProThrottle. But i the end you can't go wrong with any of he choices that people here are talking about.

[Sunjah]

If you just want a HOTAS because, frankly, you need one = x52 (regular version. The x52 pro is not worth the extra money, IMO. This is coming from someone who owns one).

 

If you know that sims are going to be your new favourite hobby for years to come = CH products.

 

When I saw it for $170 vs. $90, I was thinking that is just too much extra to pay for some nice features (almost double the price). Then, my happy friendly web-site @ GoGamer.com had the X-52 Pro for only $130. I had to go with it; $40 off was just too much to pass it up!

[Flyby]

yeah, that Cougar! I had to man-up to it, and now my right wrist is 14 inches around! :D

Flyby out

[Flim]

If you want a real feel - go with the cougar ( feels similar to the sticks in the airbus A320)

If you want a computer joystick- go with the others.

 

I haven't flown an airplane yet( real) that had super light controls except the J3 cub!

[CyBerkut]

yeah, that Cougar! I had to man-up to it, and now my right wrist is 14 inches around! :D

Flyby out

 

Hmmm... Are you sure you're blaming that on the right joy stick? :smartass:

[Prophet]

I bought the NXT mod for the Cougar during beta testing of Black Shark.

 

My arm was really hurting.

 

If I had to do it again, I would get CH.

[Reticuli]

I haven't really looked at this GlovePIE solution of yours yet. Can you briefly sum up why it is better than what we have (for non-forcefeedback sticks)? Thanks!

 

Crudely mimics attitude-command/attitude hold (ACAH) systems of fly-by-wire helos that use recentering side joysticks rather than a pole cyclic. As such, I feel it is more realistic and more natural than attempting to pretend your nonforcefeedback joystick is a pole cyclic and the manual trim & delay is an appropriate work around. Because that's not a work around you would find in any rotary aircraft in the entire world that has a recentering joystick in it.

 

GlovePIE is just a utility you run that does not install anything on your computer. You run it as is, wherever you want. The scripts you open inside of it and hit Run. They can be easily modified as needed. You do need to have PPJoy installed with a properly configured virtual joystick running. GlovePIE reads your HOTAS axis inputs and sends modified versions of them to PPJoy. In this case, with auto-trimming keeping the virtual stick in place after you let go.

 

There are three modes you can choose from now by double clicking pinkie. One that does nothing and is fully manual. The next is tailored for standard flight mode and has auto-trimming for when you need to hover. The third is for flight director and is the one I use most. I also have the attitude capture rates and the trim ranges in GlovePIE tailored for a curve of 15 in Blackshark. There are two LUA configuration files you can use, one for the PPJoy and the other for the X52, otherwise you need to at least ensure the PPJoy axiis are selected and with that curve. As a result, they match up so the dynamic trim system will not trim in a continuous roll or loop.

 

If you are using another stick, the Joysick1.button6 (pinkie/trim on mine) instances in the PIE script can be changed to whatever you want to use.

Edited January 13, 2009 by Reticuli

[Oakes]

I wouldn't buy a Cougar to use as stock. The handle is great but the internal mechanics are very prone to wear and tear (soft cast metal parts rubbing against each other = lots of play in the axis's).

 

Also the springs are way to heavy for my taste but I'm skinny so if you're all muscle this might not be a problem for you :smilewink:.....for me it just feels very clunky.

 

On the other hand, as the base for a custom job with new mechanics etc it is a good buy, a metal handle is nice:thumbup:

 

 

/Oakes

[Legolasindar]

Old Cougar. if its not possible, X52 Pro

[Lange_666]

I wouldn't buy a Cougar to use as stock. The handle is great but the internal mechanics are very prone to wear and tear (soft cast metal parts rubbing against each other = lots of play in the axis's).

 

Also the springs are way to heavy for my taste but I'm skinny so if you're all muscle this might not be a problem for you :smilewink:.....for me it just feels very clunky.

 

+1

 

The stock Cougar sucks in handling, it's something i never got used to. I first modded the interials myself but later went for a U2 mod because of precision. And this precision is TOP !!

I have a U2 mod (info how to get one can be found on Frugals, department Cougar) and it is worth every cent you pay for it.

Drawback is that it makes an expensive stick even more expensive. Back then when i bought one, they were even double in price compared to now. But once modded...:thumbup:

 

@ Oakes: Nice mod!