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VR performance significantly (50% reduction) affected by shadows flat or higher.

ThomasMay

By ThomasMay
in Game Performance Bugs

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ThomasMay

ThomasMay

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I spent hours trying to figure out why my fps performance was really bad on Enigma's Cold War server multiplayer. Turned out it was one setting that was the culprit. Shadows, any quality.

I noticed enormous performance reduction when looking at the front line 30-50+ miles away. In some cases my fps was steady at 60-70 with shadows flat then upon turning head in VR towards the front, my fps went down to 35-40. Shadows flat -> high I saw basically no further performance decrease.

I figured out a good way to repro this issue on ECW server. I jump into a Su-25 facing away from the front. Then just by looking behind I immediately see this performance problem. Attached are the requested VR perf issue files. I have also attached a screenshot of example settings where I have shadows off and my performance is great at close to 90 fps in the same test environment.


 

SHADOWS_OFF_90FPS_Ingame_Settings_DCS.openbeta.png

SHADOWS_FLAT_45FPS_Ingame_Settings_SHADOWS_FLAT_DCS.openbeta.png

Ingame_Settings_VR_2022-DCS.openbeta.png

control_panel_03.png

control_panel_02.png

control_panel_01.png

SHADOWS_FLAT_45FPS_cold-war-northern-eye-production-v151-20221116-134836.trk dcs.log DxDiag.txt

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BIGNEWY

BIGNEWY

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@ThomasMay

welcome to our forum and thank you for posting here after our discord chat. 

We will take a look 

thank you

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fagulha

fagulha

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Same here but already knew that the problem was from the Flat Shadows because it occured after the 2.8 update and other users here in the forum shared same issue and found the culprit. Nevertheless when i have some time to dig in (life is punching me right now) i will post here my report with the needed files attached.

I´m sure ED is already working on this and when possible this issue is no more, i will wait as always (eager to see this fixed of course).

Keep up.

F.

 - "Don't be John Wayne in the Break if you´re going to be Jerry Lewis on the Ball".

About carrier ops: "The younger pilots are still quite capable of holding their heads forward against the forces. The older ones have been doing this too long and know better; sore necks make for poor sleep.'

 

PC: I7 4790K 4.6ghz | 32GB RAM | Zotac GTX 1080Ti 11Gb DDR5x | Water cooler NZXT AIO Kraken x53 | 3.5TB (x4 SSD´s) | Valve Index| Andre´s JeatSeat.

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ThomasMay

ThomasMay

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Posted (edited)

 

58 minutes ago, AirMeister said:

Honestly i don't think it's a "bug". 

It's just how it is now. It's normal for any game that performance takes a hit when the picture gets prettier. (added or enhanced graphic options)

But in DCS the performance hit is usually quite extreme especially when put next to the gain in graphics. 

We've seen it with the new clouds. That was also a 30% hit. 
Now they enhanced the lighting/shadows , another 30% hit. 

Cloud hit is just forgotten about and never 'fixed'. (i don't think it can be)
Same goes for these shadows/lighting 

They keep trying to enhance graphics but the game engine just isn't suited for these enhancements. 
I'm honestly not trying to be whiny but , for god's sake stop trying to enhance the graphics until there is a more decent and modern game engine 



 

 

Your post got me thinking (always a good thing) Initially I assumed, yeah, of course it’s the shadows because enabling them causes it. But it also could be just normal if you really think about it.

1. Fps is fine when you look away from a front line that’s filled by objects that are already tens of miles away. 

2. fps plummets when you turn your head towards the object filled front line and in no way could be able to see them even with direct line of sight as they are so far.

clearly it’s just shadows, right? Wrong! Could be something else 🙂

There are couple of reasons that come to mind initially.

Possible cause #1: sub-standard shadow culling for distant vehicles/buildings/other GameObjects could be one reason.

Possible cause #2: shadow culling is fine, but as player looks towards the front there has to be added calculations for the numerous objects and players located near the front line and this pushes basically any cpu over the edge. Apparently causing a ”shadow issue”.

I’m interested if this is something that happens in any way on a flat screen 4k usage or is this only in VR. If it’s only in VR, I would be more likely to think it might be something like possible cause #1

In any case, objects that the player absolutely cannot see causes this in both cases #1 and #2. Maybe there’s something that could be optimized?

When multicore? Right?


Edited by ThomasMay
Mistake in quoting :)
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durp

durp

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Posted (edited)

Would be interesting to hear if the 'flat' shadows are now supposed to be smoothed (feature) or if this is something that is not supposed to be (bug). 

With DCS 2.7 "Flat" shadows referred to a basic shadow outline without smoothing. In 2.8 the Shadow:Flat option seems broken* and TerrainObjectShadows:Flat appears to look more like TerrainObjectShadows:Default (smoothed) with a similar (if not the same) performance impact.

 

* It used to draw the aircraft shadow, unsmoothed. Now it doesn't do anything unless TerrainObjectShadows is set to either flat or default (and in either option the aircraft shadow is also drawn smoothed)


Edited by durp
terrible typo hotfix
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  • 2 weeks later...
fagulha

fagulha

Posted
Posted
Just now, AirMeister said:

So.... nothing in the last two patches ?

 

Nope.

 - "Don't be John Wayne in the Break if you´re going to be Jerry Lewis on the Ball".

About carrier ops: "The younger pilots are still quite capable of holding their heads forward against the forces. The older ones have been doing this too long and know better; sore necks make for poor sleep.'

 

PC: I7 4790K 4.6ghz | 32GB RAM | Zotac GTX 1080Ti 11Gb DDR5x | Water cooler NZXT AIO Kraken x53 | 3.5TB (x4 SSD´s) | Valve Index| Andre´s JeatSeat.

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fagulha

fagulha

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26 minutes ago, Steel Jaw said:

So shadows should be off in VR?

For the first time i set Shadows to OFF and i get the exact same performance in VR in previous 2.7 with Shadows to Flat Only. With 2.8 if i set to Flat only, as usual, i lost a noticeable performance. Instead of 30 FPS (in high density of statics, etc) i get 15/20 FPS. Flying in VR without Shadows even in Flat it´s not the same experience. Although, i must say, after last update i get better FPS but majority of the performance is lower. Going to test tomorrow (holiday here in Portugal). If there´s anything worth mention i will post it here.

By the way, i´m using latest Nvidia drivers (526.98).

So, my advice is to try both options to get a better feel of the perfomance loss, or not. If so leave feedback please.

Meanwhile check this drivers version in this post, might help. In my case i didn´t get better performance so i updated to the latest drivers:

 

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 - "Don't be John Wayne in the Break if you´re going to be Jerry Lewis on the Ball".

About carrier ops: "The younger pilots are still quite capable of holding their heads forward against the forces. The older ones have been doing this too long and know better; sore necks make for poor sleep.'

 

PC: I7 4790K 4.6ghz | 32GB RAM | Zotac GTX 1080Ti 11Gb DDR5x | Water cooler NZXT AIO Kraken x53 | 3.5TB (x4 SSD´s) | Valve Index| Andre´s JeatSeat.

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hazzer

hazzer

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Posted
On 11/30/2022 at 9:46 PM, fagulha said:

For the first time i set Shadows to OFF and i get the exact same performance in VR in previous 2.7 with Shadows to Flat Only. With 2.8 if i set to Flat only, as usual, i lost a noticeable performance. Instead of 30 FPS (in high density of statics, etc) i get 15/20 FPS. Flying in VR without Shadows even in Flat it´s not the same experience. Although, i must say, after last update i get better FPS but majority of the performance is lower. Going to test tomorrow (holiday here in Portugal). If there´s anything worth mention i will post it here.

By the way, i´m using latest Nvidia drivers (526.98).

So, my advice is to try both options to get a better feel of the perfomance loss, or not. If so leave feedback please.

Meanwhile check this drivers version in this post, might help. In my case i didn´t get better performance so i updated to the latest drivers:

 

In the past I could run shadows with my setup. Now they have to be off otherwise I lose about 10-20 fps. Game looks horrible without those shadows as well. 

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durp

durp

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Yah, flying at low altitudes or with rotary I find shadows are required.

Would be also nice to get feedback on my above post.  

Would be interesting to hear if the 'flat' shadows are now supposed to be smoothed (feature) or if this is something that is not supposed to be (bug).

So one could figure out what to expect... not to mention that with flat shadows also aircraft shadows were drawn in <= 2.7. With 2.8 those are not drawn anymore with shadows:flat and the other flat setting (terrain object shadows) does smoothed rendering, which tanks the performance. But the other thread about those shadow artifacts was tagged as 'fixed'.

 

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WipeUout

WipeUout

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No change here either in my test track (F-18 Caucasus).

Sorry that this bug is taking so much time and effort! 

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zildac

zildac

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Posted

Not noticed a performance decrease with todays patch, but very quick trial flight earlier. However I still have a circa 20fps decrease from 2.7 with terrain shadows set to flat, sooo still set to off at the moment. Somewhat disappointed tbh.

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Gripen 4-1

Gripen 4-1

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wrong thread - moved


Edited by Gripen 4-1

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Mr_sukebe

Mr_sukebe

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Sounds more like an "opportunity" as part of VR tweaking, i.e. turn them off to enhance your frame rate.

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Gripen 4-1

Gripen 4-1

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1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Sounds more like an "opportunity" as part of VR tweaking, i.e. turn them off to enhance your frame rate.

Turn what off?

I would turn it of, if i would know what causes an 4 ms loss between 2.7 and 2.8.1

You can not switch dynamic weather off


Edited by Gripen 4-1

SYS: MSI MPG X570 Gaming Edge Wifi || Ryzen 5900x || Gainward RTX4090 || 2x16 Gb Crucial Ballistix RGB 3200@3800 || XPG Core Reactor 850 Watt PSU || Kingston Fury 2 TB NVME SSD || WD SN850 1TB NVME || 1 x 500 GB Crucial MX300 SATA SSD || 2 x HDD 3TB || Thrustmaster F-16 & F-18 Stick on Virpil War BRD Bases || WinWing Orion2 F-16EX Viper Throttle Combo || WinWing Orion2 F/A-18 Hornet Throttle Combo (With Finger Lift) || WinWing Takeoff Panel II MFG Crosswind Pedals w. Damper || 3 x Thrustmaster Cougar MFD || Multipurpose UFC ||  Wheel Stand Pro II

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Mr_sukebe

Mr_sukebe

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1 hour ago, Gripen 4-1 said:

Turn what off?

I would turn it of, if i would know what causes an 4 ms loss between 2.7 and 2.8.1

You can not switch dynamic weather off

 

I thought that this thread was discussing the impacting of enabling (or not) shadows?

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System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

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