Pre-order, 17th of February’23

[MAXsenna]

two hundred more push-ups, a dozen or so laps of the field, three times today and five tomorrow and maybe I can stand it..
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
 

Happy to see you're still hanging in there though!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

Folks appreciate you are disappointed about the date shifting of the pre-order, but please try to understand they would not have delayed unless they absolutely needed to. 
Please keep the feedback civil and thank you for being patient. 
 

No worries, we'll survive!
But users are getting worried about the actual release now, because how hard can it be to add something on a Web page in 2023?
You guys spent months adding the Mirage F1 to the user files section. You obviously know more about us what's actually going on behind the scenes, but to me it seems you need to hire a new webmaster, or maybe that's actually what you did, that's causing the delays.

Anyway, reading this thread is actually pretty fun, and I can't wait like the others.

Have a fantastic day, and keep up the good work. I really mean that from the bottom of my heart!

Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[cfrag]

33 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

We have delayes on early access and releases modules from 2012 by ED and other 3rd parties

Please allow me to ask you: is that a good thing? In my view, those are opportunities to learn and avoid in the future, not something to try and pass off as an excuse for failing to meet one's own goals. 

 

36 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

the "badly misfiring judgement call" has none to do

I'm not entirely sure I understand that, but the 'misfiring' part seems evident: people are none too happy. If they are too harsh or have too high expectations I don't know, but the evidence is there. 

And I acknowledge that my posting here doesn't help, so I try to shut my big mouth up now  

[YoYo]

45 minutes ago, stonewall197922 said:

The problem is that someone has an excess amount of money. And that feeling is disturbing them.

Absolutely not. What does the concept of honesty and partnership approach mean? If you give a specific date and then move it forward, do you think it's all about the money? 

It is not surprising that people are disappointed and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there are those who want to get rid of their money as you wrote. It's all about the word "promise" and probably postponing the release. Well, unless it actually takes place on 1/03/23 (we still dont know nothing about the release). The point is also that on the day of pre order there will be a release date when the model will be start to available in EA (I assume so), so this is also a postponement of this date when we know more. As I wrote, Razbam is working on DCS F-15E from 2012, 11 years, so 2 days more (or more) its not a problem but the problem is postponements. Better to say Pre order starts 17.02.2023 and release will be at the 1th of May, than promises and next continuous shifting. Nobody likes that, especially if something is highly anticipated by many.

It is worth adding that we are not talking about a release, but only a pre-order announcement. So news + purchase option on the website.

But for the developer it means - ED tests/beta test, approvals, final touches, etc. So there's probably a reason why they don't know yet when the model might be released and how long it will all take (I suppose). I think that's the point here. Personally, I would just like to know how long I should wait for the release of the model (if it is to be 2 weeks, a month, or 5 - let it be, but let it be given and respected simply), and not watch screenshots and videos because it just annoys me that I can't fly it yet .

Edited February 15, 2023 by YoYo

[ebabil]

The point that i don't understand is, what might go wrong when the only thing you have to do is adding a "buy" button since there is no product untill the release.

[BIGNEWY]

2 minutes ago, ebabil said:

The point that i don't understand is, what might go wrong when the only thing you have to do is adding a "buy" button since there is no product untill the release.

Pre-order requires a lot of prep behind the scene, shop, art, videos ect ect.

[Mike Force Team]

We are disappointed we cannot get the f-15 today. ED, rest assured, we will buy the pre-order.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

28 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Absolutely not. What does the concept of honesty and partnership approach mean? If you give a specific date and then move it forward, do you think it's all about the money? 

It is not surprising that people are disappointed and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there are those who want to get rid of their money as you wrote. It's all about the word "promise" and probably postponing the release. Well, unless it actually takes place on 1/03/23 (we still dont know nothing about the release). The point is also that on the day of pre order there will be a release date when the model will be start to available in EA (I assume so), so this is also a postponement of this date when we know more. As I wrote, Razbam is working on DCS F-15E from 2012, 11 years, so 2 days more (or more) its not a problem but the problem is postponements. Better to say Pre order starts 17.02.2023 and release will be at the 1th of May, than promises and next continuous shifting. Nobody likes that, especially if something is highly anticipated by many.

It is worth adding that we are not talking about a release, but only a pre-order announcement. So news + purchase option on the website.

But for the developer it means - ED tests/beta test, approvals, final touches, etc. So there's probably a reason why they don't know yet when the model might be released and how long it will all take (I suppose). I think that's the point here. Personally, I would just like to know how long I should wait for the release of the model (if it is to be 2 weeks, a month, or 5 - let it be, but let it be given and respected simply), and not watch screenshots and videos because it just annoys me that I can't fly it yet .

 

What "promise"? RAZBAM and ED has none promise nothing, only a "tentanive date". Day of preorders and webside puchase option has on the ED side, and RAZBAM has nothing to do here.

[Silver_Dragon]

34 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Please allow me to ask you: is that a good thing? In my view, those are opportunities to learn and avoid in the future, not something to try and pass off as an excuse for failing to meet one's own goals. 

ED and 3rd parties has no building a other company simplified / WT product, has a very complex hardcore module on a evolving free core and here someone thinking and continue repeat build that kind of products has very easy and without problems. The "excuse" and the continuous atacks vs them turn on a  repeat "dramas" , when none of the present has put your reputation, money, time and work to build something with never has build. 

[Beirut]

There is a scene in Aristophanes play, "Lysistrata", that comes to mind in all this.

 

The guy hasn't schaloomphed his wife in ages, and every time he's about to seal the deal and lose the toga, she needs one more thing.

 

"I need to put on some perfume first. I'll be back."

 "No, you really don't need it!"

"I want to go get that nice soft pillow first!. I'll be back."

 "We don't need the pillow!"

"I'd like to find my special necklace first. I'll be back."

 "You look great already!"

 

This goes on and on and by the time she gets everything, it's too late for the schaloomphing.

 

Razbam: The Greek comedy of pre-orders. 

[stonewall197922]

42 минуты назад, YoYo сказал:

Absolutely not. What does the concept of honesty and partnership approach mean? If you give a specific date and then move it forward, do you think it's all about the money? 

It is not surprising that people are disappointed and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there are those who want to get rid of their money as you wrote. It's all about the word "promise" and probably postponing the release. Well, unless it actually takes place on 1/03/23 (we still dont know nothing about the release). The point is also that on the day of pre order there will be a release date when the model will be start to available in EA (I assume so), so this is also a postponement of this date when we know more. As I wrote, Razbam is working on DCS F-15E from 2012, 11 years, so 2 days more (or more) its not a problem but the problem is postponements. Better to say Pre order starts 17.02.2023 and release will be at the 1th of May, than promises and next continuous shifting. Nobody likes that, especially if something is highly anticipated by many.

 

Look does it brings release more early, if RAZBAM start preorder today? Again you will not gain module at a preorder day, but sometime (maybe even months)after. So what worrying about? Let people do their job and relax. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by stonewall197922

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Hope my post did not create any stir.

I don't have any insider information, just from my little software development experience and being a customer of other products, a little observation what might have happened and what kind of impact it would have on the customers, when comparing to other similar announcements -- lately, South Atlantic Map, MB-339A and the Mirage F1.

It is not about how I *feel*, again, it is about how things normally happen.

For project in general, whether it is an architectural, software, medical, does not matter. The thing, when one is facing the consumer directly, expectation management is the key.

And it is not too fair to say that if the pre-order gets delayed and the release will be too, for there is not real date of release.

As I have mentioned above, I don't mind 2 more days or 2 more weeks, my £££ are ready, just come and grab them if RB dares.

[YoYo]

19 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

What "promise"? RAZBAM and ED has none promise nothing, only a "tentanive date". Day of preorders and webside puchase option has on the ED side, and RAZBAM has nothing to do here.

Did you see those video to the end? Looks like not, if so what is 3.02 doing there ?

[Beirut]

4 minutes ago, stonewall197922 said:

Look does it brings release more early, if RAZBAM start preorder today? Again you will not gain module at a preorder day, but sometime (maybe even months)after. So what worrying about? Let people do their job and relax. 

 

 

It's not about worrying, it's about fun. Pre-ordering a new plane is fun for a lot of people. And nobody wants their fun delayed.

 

It really is that simple.

[cfrag]

5 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

ED and 3rd parties has no building a other company simplified / WT product, has a very complex hardcore module on a evolving free core and here someone thinking and continue repeat build that kind of products has very easy and without problems.

Perhaps. The last project I led was delivering a publicly announced new on-line financial service for some seven-figure customers. We delivered last November, on time. No apology would have been accepted if we failed the deadline - especially if our apology merely was that "doing this is hard". That's why I have my job: managing complexity is what we do. I know how I do my job, and so do many others; you need not to make excuses for them. As Steven Jobs once quipped: "Real Artists Ship". The issue at hand isn't that what ED or RB do is difficult or complex. It is, and nobody denies that. We bemoan the public-facing spectacle of mangling the project management side. I believe RB could have done better.

[Beirut]

3 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Perhaps. The last project I led was delivering a publicly announced new on-line financial service for some seven-figure customers. We delivered last November, on time. No apology would have been accepted if we failed the deadline - especially if our apology merely was that "doing this is hard". That's why I have my job: managing complexity is what we do. I know how I do my job, and so do many others; you need not to make excuses for them. As Steven Jobs once quipped: "Real Artists Ship". The issue at hand isn't that what ED or RB do is difficult or complex. It is, and nobody denies that. We bemoan the public-facing spectacle of mangling the project management side. I believe RB could have done better.

 

Hmmmm....

 

Harsh, but fair.

[WinterH]

Ah yes, these pre module release periods never ceases to be exquisitely amusing since late 2013 when I've started DCS. Clearly, people can never learn from experience and adapt accordingly when hype is involved.

[Silver_Dragon]

11 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Perhaps. The last project I led was delivering a publicly announced new on-line financial service for some seven-figure customers. We delivered last November, on time. No apology would have been accepted if we failed the deadline - especially if our apology merely was that "doing this is hard". That's why I have my job: managing complexity is what we do. I know how I do my job, and so do many others; you need not to make excuses for them. As Steven Jobs once quipped: "Real Artists Ship". The issue at hand isn't that what ED or RB do is difficult or complex. It is, and nobody denies that. We bemoan the public-facing spectacle of mangling the project management side. I believe RB could have done better.

Someone like the "blackout" return to DCS and never talk about new projects... surely the 2023 Roadmap will be problem about "promises"...

Edited February 15, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[ECTAE]

"anyone's control? What that means? First time in 11yrs I wont preorder or prebuy any module. If RB need money, ask for a loan to your local bank.

This is kind of funny

 

[Nahen]

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

Happy to see you're still hanging in there though!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

Damn but let RAZBAM have mercy because if it goes on like this I will look like Shwarzenegger in 1970 when he won the title "Mr. Olimpia" At my age it can be dangerous
But I should be able to handle a few more postponements

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Com'on, RB mismanaged our expectations, true, but RB does not owe us anything, as we have not even paid yet. We are just too eagar to hand out our currencies.

[Lurker]

This is why you shouldn't build hype by making announcements of preorders. There is really no point. 

[Beirut]

7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

This is why you shouldn't build hype by making announcements of preorders. There is really no point. 

 

What would DCS be without hype?

 

It would be... less.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

To be fair, if RB really want funding for development, they can bring their projects to Kickstarter or such, it is kinda late in getting money at this point of development.

[Nahen]

And now I have a simple - this time a serious - question for all those who accuse RAZBAM of incompetent project management, straining patience, not keeping deadlines, etc.

Tell/write what did you lose, how much did your life collapse due to the fact that RAZBAM, as the creator of this particular module, stated that he is not ready to put it on pre-sale now?

For me, DCS is entertainment, fun, I've been waiting for this module since the first day of the announcement, looking longingly at the shelf with boxes with F-15 Strike Eagle, F-15 Strike Eagle II, F-15 Strike Eagle III from Microprose, Janes F-15 and others. But apart from wanting to start playing, I didn't bet on the house on this date, I didn't give notice termination of employment to the company, I didn't sell my sons...

It's fun, nothing more. In my opinion, if RAZBAM decides that he has to postpone the pre-sale for another year - I will write again how many classes I will have to find to kill time this time and that's it. Maybe when I'm done with the HOTAS kit for the pilot and WSO F-15E, I'll start building side panels, front panel... it will always be extra time for made it

I suggest that everyone who feels deceived, betrayed, etc., go for a long walk, call a friend they haven't seen for a long time, maybe their parents. Let take a deep breath and look around for something worth the next two days, maybe the next week or month. Spring is coming in the northern hemisphere, maybe the garden is calling for attention...

People, no one robbed you, cheated you, did not betray you - someone wants you to be satisfied with the product itself and the cycle from pre-sale to release. So don't tighten your buttocks, full slack...