Think the F-15 Release is/will have an Impact

[Bananabrai]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:47 PM, Kalasnkova74 said:

tomorrow!

Not tomrrow, but everyone will quote him on "in two weeks".

[Bananabrai]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:55 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

No, because if you want the Phantom, you're getting the Phantom. If you want the Strike Eagle, you get the Strike Eagle.

I think what the debate was about:

There are certain people who will decide between one or the other, even though the like both.
I can think of multiple factors:

1. They estimate their brain power to not suffice for 2 modules to learn. Such guys will eventually get both I guess. Similar reason: "hangar is too full".
2. They don't want to/can't spent the money for both immediately (in this case the first released could 'win')
3. They have no clue. Maybe their head compares an F-15B cockpit they saw somewhere with an F-4E Terminator 2020 or HAF Peace Ikarus pit^^. They just buy one.

Several other combinations.

I agree however that at least for the hardcores it is like you stated.
I also think there should not be a "versus" and it isn't for the larger portion of DCS for sure. If you have the hobby, you normally know at least some stuff, and with that comes the knowledge to know the difference of these birds.

[Hiob]

We're* Collectors, not Pilots!

(*to whom it may apply)

Edited February 11, 2023 by Hiob

[Dannyvandelft]

What seems odd to me is, in October 2022 a 2022 release was still projected. So it can't be THAT far off if in October they thought it would be ready to release within 3 months. So I very much hope an imminent release Q1 of 2023. And instead of being trickled info over months, we get "two weeks" of videos followed by a release.

I just hope that since the F-4 missed it's initial launch window, it isn't being held back because of the F-15's launch window.

Heatblur said they don't have a problem with a simultaneous release, but that doesn't mean RAZBAM doesn't. They might be lobbying ED to hold the F-4 back for X amount of time to not lose sales.

I hope I'm wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm right.

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[Bananabrai]

2 minutes ago, Dannyvandelft said:

They might be lobbying ED to hold the F-4 back for X amount of time to not lose sales.

Sounds like a lot of speculation.

[Dannyvandelft]

Sounds like a lot of speculation.

Obviously. Which is what this whole thread is about. Speculating if the modules will take sales away from each other.

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[zbiegu]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:08 PM, Horns said:

Ok, so my personal interpretation based on this (and possibly influenced by my former affection for doing things that would make my mother ashamed of me): HB currently expect some gap between the F-15E and the Phantom, but this is due more to a pursuit of quality (ie proper development time) than leaving a gap for its own sake. At the moment, it is "exceptionally unrealistic" to think the F-4E will be delayed as far as December.

The most important thing this suggests to me is that a delay to the Mudhen probably won't result in a delay to the Phantom, unless HB believe it will improve financial prospects, so hopefully Razbam's ability to meet their schedule won't represent an extra variable. It also suggests to me that HB won't build a fixed idea of a date, season or quarter when they want to release.

I'll adjust my guess to April to October, but if it's ready in March it seems like they won't wait just for the sake of it.

Razbam and "meet the schedule" should never be used in the same sentence!

[Vampyre]

6 hours ago, zbiegu said:

Razbam and "meet the schedule" should never be used in the same sentence!

To be fair, I don't think any third party has a good track record for meeting the schedule... except possibly Aerges. It is what it is though. I'm just happy to be getting a Phantom and there's plenty of other things to do while I wait like fly the Mirage F1, get back to the Harrier after a long time of not flying it or even head out to the lake and do some fishing. It'll be here when it gets here.

[upyr1]

My theory on the F-4's release date

27 May 

that is becuse that would be the Phantom's 65th birthday 

[Sarge55]

49 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

My theory on the F-4's release date

27 May 

that is becuse that would be the Phantom's 65th birthday 

I like it.

Although a bit disturbing as I pre-date it by a couple of years.

[Aussie_Mantis]

On 2/3/2023 at 6:26 PM, addman said:

F-4 all the way. I don't have time for ultra-complex 4+ gen fighters anymore. Too much too learn and remember. A week passes without flying and I have to relearn. No time, no patience. Cold War ftw.

4th gen fighters are unironically easier to learn to fly than the Phantom is. With the Phantom there's an assload more you have to worry about and no MFDs for easy mode switching. Flying an F-4E is to flying the F-15/F-16 as driving a high-performance manual car for drift races in Tokyo is to driving an automatic car for a drag race. There's a massive difference since in the case of the auto, a lot of work is taken carefor you already.

on a more relevant note, I agree with everyone here. F-15E should ahve no real effect on F-4E release but I wouldn't be surprised if Heatblur delays release a bit to make sure they don't collide hype trains.

[CaptHawk]

Either way, I'll get both because I love both Aircraft for much of the same reasons posted above by Assuie_Mantis 

[Iron Sights]

I agree with what is the most part the popular opinion. I’ll be getting both and yes I do know there is a big difference between them and I love it! Go Cold War, go modern, go Cold War, go modern, get it. The F-4 is Indy car back in the day, easy to kill yourself, compared to now. 

[Dannyvandelft]

4th gen fighters are unironically easier to learn to fly than the Phantom is. With the Phantom there's an assload more you have to worry about and no MFDs for easy mode switching. Flying an F-4E is to flying the F-15/F-16 as driving a high-performance manual car for drift races in Tokyo is to driving an automatic car for a drag race. There's a massive difference since in the case of the auto, a lot of work is taken carefor you already.
on a more relevant note, I agree with everyone here. F-15E should ahve no real effect on F-4E release but I wouldn't be surprised if Heatblur delays release a bit to make sure they don't collide hype trains.

I disagree somewhat. When learning the F-16 you have to learn pages upon pages of systems, MFD's, and you're more a systems engineer than a pilot. Especially with the FBW taking over much of the flying. In comparison as a pilot the Tomcat is much easier to learn system wise, but you spend a lot more focus on flying. The RIO gets all the systems stuff. I imagine it will be similar with the Phantom where for the pilot, it's all about the flying rather than being heads down in the cockpit.

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[Aussie_Mantis]

11 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

I disagree somewhat. When learning the F-16 you have to learn pages upon pages of systems, MFD's, and you're more a systems engineer than a pilot. Especially with the FBW taking over much of the flying. In comparison as a pilot the Tomcat is much easier to learn system wise, but you spend a lot more focus on flying. The RIO gets all the systems stuff. I imagine it will be similar with the Phantom where for the pilot, it's all about the flying rather than being heads down in the cockpit.

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Probably, but then again, IMHO that's just a matter of you being the pilot. Imagine something like an F-5, F-100D or a sparrow-equipped F3H-2

in full fidelity where you have to take care of everything yourself, or worse- being the RIO! Horrifying!

Edited February 11, 2023 by Aussie_Mantis

[ebabil]

I will get the both (hopefully)

If someone wants a phantom, you can not make him let go with an eagle. 

[BobbyG]

[Trooper117]

The F-4 Phantom is a definite buy for me... the F-15, probably not.

[Omega417]

On 2/10/2023 at 7:45 PM, Dannyvandelft said:

I disagree somewhat. When learning the F-16 you have to learn pages upon pages of systems, MFD's, and you're more a systems engineer than a pilot. Especially with the FBW taking over much of the flying. In comparison as a pilot the Tomcat is much easier to learn system wise, but you spend a lot more focus on flying. The RIO gets all the systems stuff. I imagine it will be similar with the Phantom where for the pilot, it's all about the flying rather than being heads down in the cockpit.

When you're talking about strictly flying, the fourth gen win hands down. You almost have to try to kill yourself with FBW. And that simplicity allows you to spend more time heads down working on the MFDs. Talking about role responsibility, the F-4 pilot seat should be pretty equivalent to the F-14 pilot seat. Once you develop a good "Heads down scan" and can read all your instruments quickly and resume eyes forward flight, flying third gen becomes just as easy as flying fourth gen.

My 2 cents on the matter.

Oddly enough I see the phantom and F15E having pretty much the same role in the game upon release. "Locate targets, employ massive amounts of ordnance to delete targets, move on to the next one"

[lunaticfringe]

The pilot overhead in the F-4E (and Phantom in general) is substantially higher than the pilot of the F-14.  The Phantom pilot is responsible for all stores management (including selective jettison), as well as weapon release grouping and timing profiles, directly assists in Sparrow tuning, and performs DDS programming (while the WSO selects mode).  The pilot selects all air to ground employment modes, and in some instances a profile will require a mode change just prior to release (example: Target Find cannot provide the release signal, thus requires selection to another release mode once the offset target is sighted and on approach). 

The Phantom is an odd mix, as capability outstripped the original cockpit ergonomics design in very short order, and it shows in how seemingly related tasks are distributed throughout the cockpit in strange fashion. There is a method to the madness (for the most part) once you get an understanding, but it will likely take some time for everything to "click". 

[Dannyvandelft]

When you're talking about strictly flying, the fourth gen win hands down. You almost have to try to kill yourself with FBW. And that simplicity allows you to spend more time heads down working on the MFDs. Talking about role responsibility, the F-4 pilot seat should be pretty equivalent to the F-14 pilot seat. Once you develop a good "Heads down scan" and can read all your instruments quickly and resume eyes forward flight, flying third gen becomes just as easy as flying fourth gen.
My 2 cents on the matter.
Oddly enough I see the phantom and F15E having pretty much the same role in the game upon release. "Locate targets, employ massive amounts of ordnance to delete targets, move on to the next one"

Yup exactly. But for just the flying, I enjoy the 14 a lot more than the 16. I know I'm going to love the F-4 too.

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[freehand]

The Phantom is no match for popularity of the F-15

[Lt_Jaeger]

38 minutes ago, freehand said:

The Phantom is no match for popularity of the F-15

That is 100% correct. The Eagle is totally unpopular with me and will be parked with all the other diddle diddle in the corner of the hangar, the phabulous Phantom on the other hand will shine very bright.

 

[Dannyvandelft]

The Phantom is no match for popularity of the F-15

The Phantom is loved by the Navy, Air Force, the Marines, and the Blue Angels AND the Thunderbirds used them for their demo teams.

Can the Eagle say that?

Nope!

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[freehand]

4 hours ago, Dannyvandelft said:

The Phantom is loved by the Navy, Air Force, the Marines, and the Blue Angels AND the Thunderbirds used them for their demo teams.

Can the Eagle say that?

Nope!

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lol what has that todo with the price of eggs ?

I am replying to the thread title and I pointed out in my first post regarding popularity.