F-4E Phantom Development Report - DCS Newsletter 31/03/2023

[Biggus]

12 hours ago, SgtPappy said:

Maybe I have a dumb question, but would a fan mod actually be a problem if an official dev wanted to make a module? I would think since its just an unofficial thing (anyone can technically make anything), as long as its not official, then an 3rd party dev or ED aren't obligated to bat an eye unless the mod is actually official dev quality which hasn't been a concern.

I'd like to think that it wouldn't be a factor.  But at the same time I'm not expecting to see an official A-4 module any time soon, because the mod is such an incredible piece of software.

[Fastshadow]

У меня был вещий сон, и приснился мне фантом)

[Raisuli]

6 hours ago, Fastshadow said:

У меня был вещий сон, и приснился мне фантом)

I expect that dream might coalesce into an actual cartoon aircraft about the time ED releases the core code needed for it to fly.

[cordite]

8 hours ago, Fastshadow said:

У меня был вещий сон, и приснился мне фантом)

Google translate:

I had a prophetic dream, and I dreamed of a phantom

[Kalasnkova74]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:27 AM, SgtPappy said:

Maybe I have a dumb question, but would a fan mod actually be a problem if an official dev wanted to make a module? I would think since its just an unofficial thing (anyone can technically make anything), as long as its not official, then an 3rd party dev or ED aren't obligated to bat an eye unless the mod is actually official dev quality which hasn't been a concern.

It’s not a concern. For a recent example, the F-104 VSN mod isn’t obstructing development of a legit F-104 module via Aerges. As noted upthread, you can’t compare a mod to an official module. 

[cfrag]

16 hours ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

you can’t compare a mod to an official module. 

Actually you can, and people do so all the time. I believe what you meant is that a comparison between a 'mere' mod and an official module may be akin to an 'apple to oranges' comparison. The problem is that, especially without being able to compare them side by side, to many people it seems more like a "Granny Smith" to "Golden Delicious" comparison - they look the same, and both fly, after all. So the least that a vendor should do is to point to the differences, and assert that they are enough to warrant a purchase. It's not self-evident, and merely saying "you can't compare those" appears disingenuous to me, people simply do, they can't help themselves, they don't know how not to do: it's natural to do so.

Luckily, the '14 day trial' available from ED may help convince people and help them make up their minds. 

That being said, I can't wait for ED to release the Herc (which is a day zero purchase for me, and I adore Anubis' version from a few moons past. I don't need a 14 day trial...)

Edited September 18, 2023 by cfrag

[Gunfreak]

I have no interest in vsn F4 knowing the F4 from heatblur is "close' if there was no F4 on the horizon I might try it.

But I have no interest knowing the quality Heatblur delivers. Would be like eating a packet of mustard right before a $500 steak dinner at a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

[cfrag]

19 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Would be like eating a packet of mustard right before a $500 steak dinner at a 3 Michelin star restaurant

Wouldn't that depend a lot on the mustard -- and which michelin *** restaurant?  

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

21 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

 

 Would be like eating a packet of mustard right before a $500 steak dinner at a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

Yeah, but I'd hope you employer would be picking up that tab, just sayin'.

[Raisuli]

5 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Yeah, but I'd hope you employer would be picking up that tab, just sayin'.

I was at dinner with a bunch of cow-orkers at a restaurant in Omaha a couple weeks back and a guy I've worked with for sixteen years put A-1 on his $80 steak. 

Of course I was the only one who defended him, and pointed out that everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Even if it is dangerously stupid. 

<edit> Should have added that A-1 is a 'steak sauce' that's got enough flavor to overpower anything you put it on.  Put it on a steak and you taste sauce.  SWMBO didn't know what it was either as we collectively gave him a hard time about it...  </edit>

Edited September 19, 2023 by Raisuli

[Kalasnkova74]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:07 AM, cfrag said:

 It's not self-evident, and merely saying "you can't compare those" appears disingenuous to me, people simply do, they can't help themselves, they don't know how not to do: it's natural to do so.

 

I respectfully disagree with your assement. A mod cannot be compared to a module, any more than a Corvette can be compared to a base Fiat 500 economy car. As an economy car doing economy car things , the Fiat is probably an excellent choice. But it can’t compete with a Corvette on the track, despite having four wheels and a steering wheel.

Same goes for the VSN F-4 vs Heatblurs. They’re not the same product & are not meant to be. The VSN is a great mod, and the forthcoming Heatblur F-4E is promising to be equally good.  One is not a substitute for the other any more than a JF-17 can substitute for an F/A-18. 

[Stackup]

1 hour ago, Kalasnkova74 said:

A mod cannot be compared to a module, any more than a Corvette can be compared to a base Fiat 500 economy car.

I agree the VSN mod is no where near the level that Heatblur's F-4 will be but this is just objectively false.  You can compare anything to anything else, comparisons do not have to be limited to whatever arbitrary categories you set.  Here we have two simulated aircraft and two cars.  Both items fit into broad categories and can in fact be compared.  in fact you yourself just compared the corvette and fiat 500 by saying the Fiat is a better economy car while the Corvette is a better track car.  That's a comparison.

[MAXsenna]

25 minutes ago, Stackup said:

I agree the VSN mod is no where near the level that Heatblur's F-4 will be but this is just objectively false.  You can compare anything to anything else, comparisons do not have to be limited to whatever arbitrary categories you set.  Here we have two simulated aircraft and two cars.  Both items fit into broad categories and can in fact be compared.  in fact you yourself just compared the corvette and fiat 500 by saying the Fiat is a better economy car while the Corvette is a better track car.  That's a comparison.

And he compared two off the shelves cars. For the analogy to hold up, the Fiat would have to be modded. There are numerous YT vids of modded "lesser" cars leaving Ferraris and what not in the dust. And nobody in their right mind would compare a Corvette to a Ferrari? Or would they?  

[Elf1606688794]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:36 AM, cfrag said:

Wouldn't that depend a lot on the mustard -- and which michelin *** restaurant?  

If it's Grey Poupon...

 

[VZ_342]

On 9/18/2023 at 1:39 PM, Gunfreak said:

I have no interest in vsn F4 knowing the F4 from heatblur is "close' if there was no F4 on the horizon I might try it.

But I have no interest knowing the quality Heatblur delivers. Would be like eating a packet of mustard right before a $500 steak dinner at a 3 Michelin star restaurant.

I think it's a bit unfair to VSN to compare their F-4 mod to "a packet of mustard", especially if you haven't flown it yet.

[Gunfreak]

5 hours ago, VZ_342 said:

I think it's a bit unfair to VSN to compare their F-4 mod to "a packet of mustard", especially if you haven't flown it yet.

Compared to the F-4 from heatblur it will be, compared to say the F-5 or Mig15, it might not be.

It's probably the best vsn mod so far. But heatblur is on a completely different level(even compared to most 3rd party developers and even ED at times) 

Vsn does good stuff(of late) and I hope they continue and even advance into a full 3rd party developer. Make a 105 or say the F9. That would be awesome.

But yeah the heatblur F-4 is gonna blow almost anything out of the water.

[JG11Preusse]

Am 16.10.2023 um 04:23 schrieb VZ_342:

I think it's a bit unfair to VSN to compare their F-4 mod to "a packet of mustard", especially if you haven't flown it yet.

Thank you for your post.

I tried the f-4 and the F104 VSN mods and i love them and if "heatblur F-4 is gonna blow almost anything out of the water"  we will see when it will be ready some day in the future.

The difference at the moment is, that you can fly these good quality VSN mods since a while.

[Gunfreak]

On 10/16/2023 at 9:32 AM, Gunfreak said:

Compared to the F-4 from heatblur it will be, compared to say the F-5 or Mig15, it might not be.

It's probably the best vsn mod so far. But heatblur is on a completely different level(even compared to most 3rd party developers and even ED at times) 

Vsn does good stuff(of late) and I hope they continue and even advance into a full 3rd party developer. Make a 105 or say the F9. That would be awesome.

But yeah the heatblur F-4 is gonna blow almost anything out of the water.

Just gonna quote myself with a smug look on my face.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gunfreak

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:01 PM, Gunfreak said:

Just gonna quote myself with a smug look on my face.

Well, when you're right, you're right.

[pii]

On 9/18/2023 at 4:39 PM, Gunfreak said:

I have no interest in vsn F4 knowing the F4 from heatblur is "close' if there was no F4 on the horizon I might try it.

If nothing else it makes a great DCS F4 Wallpaper while you wait.

Edited November 3, 2023 by pii

[greyseal494]

I went with the pre-order on Heatblurs website but now I'm wondering how that works...will we d/l the mod from Heatblur and add it directly or will be come through the DCS UI?

[Hiob]

4 minutes ago, greyseal494 said:

I went with the pre-order on Heatblurs website but now I'm wondering how that works...will we d/l the mod from Heatblur and add it directly or will be come through the DCS UI?

You will probably need to redeem the key you get on your DCS profile page. It will download once activated (and released) with your other modules like usual.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Hiob

[Raviar]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:09 PM, greyseal494 said:

I went with the pre-order on Heatblurs website but now I'm wondering how that works...will we d/l the mod from Heatblur and add it directly or will be come through the DCS UI?

https://store.heatblur.com/products/dcs-f-4-phantom

Please note that the DCS: F-4 Phantom license key will only be redeemable at the time of Early Access launch.
Customers will be notified by email when activation is ready. Thank you!

*Physical Items such as shirts and vinyls will ship by February 2024."

[Razgriz10]

On 10/16/2023 at 3:32 AM, Gunfreak said:

Compared to the F-4 from heatblur it will be, compared to say the F-5 or Mig15, it might not be.

It's probably the best vsn mod so far. But heatblur is on a completely different level(even compared to most 3rd party developers and even ED at times) 

Vsn does good stuff(of late) and I hope they continue and even advance into a full 3rd party developer. Make a 105 or say the F9. That would be awesome.

But yeah the heatblur F-4 is gonna blow almost anything out of the water.

I highly disagree with your assesment of the F-5. It may not be very complex but thats just how the airplane is and is a great moduel.

[Gunfreak]

8 hours ago, Razgriz10 said:

I highly disagree with your assesment of the F-5. It may not be very complex but thats just how the airplane is and is a great moduel.

It's an old modual and it shows, hence ED has some rather large upgrade plans for it.