What type of SAMs are in the SAM emplacement now?

[Gunfreak]

So map got a ton of these ready buildt SAM emplacements.

But what SAMS are in them now?

If you're doing 60s and 70s reenactments I'm sure SA-2s and SA-3s would be the thing. But what about modern day?

[Silver_Dragon]

59 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

So map got a ton of these ready buildt SAM emplacements.

But what SAMS are in them now?

If you're doing 60s and 70s reenactments I'm sure SA-2s and SA-3s would be the thing. But what about modern day?

The SAM emplacement has generic.

[Gunfreak]

30 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The SAM emplacement has generic.

That's not what I asked.

[Silver_Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

That's not what I asked.

The type of SAMs on the Sinai map has no a info with OnReTech need know, they build the map, no assets yet (That require a assest team, otside map team). You need search and find the available info on the Web about Egyps and Israel Air Defense systems:

Egypt SAM systems:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Air_Defense_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Egyptian_Army

Israel Air Defense Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Defense_Command
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Israel_Defense_Forces

Edited April 2, 2023 by Silver_Dragon

[AdrianL]

Most of the SAM emplacements are unused now. For example,   https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4742323,32.2180954,19z or  https://www.google.com/maps/@29.0350888,31.6578915,850m/data=!3m1!1e3

There is a kmz file in this post that you can import into google maps if you want to view more. Note that not all the sites are in the Sinai map but it does give a good indication.

 

[Gunfreak]

27 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

Most of the SAM emplacements are unused now. For example,   https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4742323,32.2180954,19z or  https://www.google.com/maps/@29.0350888,31.6578915,850m/data=!3m1!1e3

There is a kmz file in this post that you can import into google maps if you want to view more. Note that not all the sites are in the Sinai map but it does give a good indication.

 

So most of those sites would indeed be used in earlier times with SA-2s.

The way they are laid out they do seem to be made with large stationary SAMs in mind.  SAMs were the launchers can only fire in a relatively small arch.

[Silver_Dragon]

The problem of the KMZ file has very outdated. The original creator IMINT & Analysis, close on 2016 and has continue as The Caffeinated Analyst.

http://geimint.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/caffeinatedanalyst/

[Northstar98]

On 4/2/2023 at 12:20 PM, Gunfreak said:

So map got a ton of these ready buildt SAM emplacements.

But what SAMS are in them now?

If you're doing 60s and 70s reenactments I'm sure SA-2s and SA-3s would be the thing. But what about modern day?

The fixed sites are for S-75, S-125 [SA-3b, SA-3c], I-HAWK [PIP Phase 2 and Phase 3] and Aspide 2000 (which is used with Skyguard). Some are still in use.

• The S-75 sites will typically have 6 launch positions arranged around the FCR (which may be on a raised berm or be revetted, looking at some sites, it looks like the control cabins are sometimes situated in a bunker that the FCR sits on top of).
• The S-125 sites will have 4 launch positions either arranged around or in an arc ahead of the FCR.
• For the I-HAWK sites, some are configured for a platoon (3 launchers arranged in an arc ahead of the FCR) or a battery (consisting of 2 sections).
• The Aspide 2000 sites have 4 revetments - 2 small and 2 large, unsure what goes where (they all seem empty in available satellite imagery).

The sites in Egypt seem to typically have raised berms or revetments for acquisition and fire-control radars and sometimes have a bunker contained within for control/electronics and power generation.

For mobile systems, Egypt uses the 2K12M3 [SA-6b] 9K37M1 [SA-11], 9K330M1 [SA-15b], 9K317E [SA-17], MIM-72G Chaparral (in conjuction with AN/MPQ-49 FAAR) and Avenger. They also have the 9K32 [SA-7a] and FIM-92B/C available as MANPADS. 

On 4/2/2023 at 2:32 PM, Gunfreak said:

So most of those sites would indeed be used in earlier times with SA-2s.

The way they are laid out they do seem to be made with large stationary SAMs in mind.  SAMs were the launchers can only fire in a relatively small arch.

They can usually fire in a 360° arc, but the sites are optimised to engage threats from a particular threat axis (typically from the east or north-east in the case of Egypt).

Edited November 6, 2023 by Northstar98
Section -> platoon

[western_JPN]

Hi.

wikipedia says EADF is operating some Russian S-300 and American Patriot systems.
Someone knows how and where they are deployed ?
Reusing historical S-75 or S-125 sites ? or placed in other new bases ?

[Northstar98]

On 4/2/2023 at 5:51 PM, western_JPN said:

wikipedia says EADF is operating some Russian S-300

According to wiki, the S-300 they've purchased is the VM system, which aren't usually employed in fixed sites (like Buk - they're land forces systems as opposed to air defence/aerospace forces in Soviet/Russian parlance - these will typically be garrisoned at some fixed facility but will be mobilised to where they're expected to operate from, but these usually won't be fixed emplacements).

On 4/2/2023 at 5:51 PM, western_JPN said:

and American Patriot systems

Unfortunately the citations wiki gives lead to 404s and I can't find any supporting evidence suggesting them to be in Egyptian service.

As for the SA-2 and 3 sites, looking at satellite imagery they either have an SA-2 or 3 system stationed in them or are empty, I haven't been over every single one though, so I'll edit this post if I spot something different.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Northstar98

[OnReTech]

Everyone paid attention to the SAM places in Egypt, but they are different from the SAM places in Jordan (we did not do them at all), but I added them to to-do  list. We will think about how to make them, because they are different from Israel and Egypt

Everyone who did the review did not show what the places SAM systems in Israel look like, they are also different from Egypt.. I think it will be shown in the future

Edited April 5, 2023 by OnReTech

[Pikey]

Camp David accords really changed the orbats of this theater - 1-3 billion USD per side from 1982. So its all in the date as to what to expect.

Egypt is fairly easy to work with. DCS has it's limitations with SAM group composition that makes it work, but actually you do see search radars in these installations also, sometimes.  Typically on the copy/paste  SA2 sites the tracking radar is on the large elevated center building, the launchers around then you have 1 or two elevated ramped sites for a combination of Search radar or EWR. The crosses with four bunkers are for a SHORAD unit, the missile storage and loader wagons are sat in the corners of the site.

For DCS you can swap between systems 2,3,6 at will and I've even done the setup with the S60/S57+firecan for an anti air artillery battery (which is woefully underused online, come on guys, get with the FUN))

I don't think I will do a template this time around because at least in Egypt's case, a lot of these sites are dummy sites and they will have mixed things up as you would expect for any military force. People creating battlespace templates should attempt to use SAM templates that switch between live and offline/dummy at mission start.

For Israel, only thing I noticed was that the Patriot system launcher sites have berms that are in the wrong directions - i.e. they dont shield the blast. I coudlnmt work out how to orient them as Patriot is a very 'pointy' system that should always be lined towards the threat axis.

[Nealius]

I've seen quite a few of the Egyptian SA-2 sites with only a single raised platform in the middle, for the Fan Song (sometimes visible on Google Earth, even), but I'm always unable to find the P-19 search radar on those sites. When there's no other raised platforms, where does the P-19 typically go? 

[Lt.Turbo]

11 hours ago, Nealius said:

I've seen quite a few of the Egyptian SA-2 sites with only a single raised platform in the middle, for the Fan Song (sometimes visible on Google Earth, even), but I'm always unable to find the P-19 search radar on those sites. When there's no other raised platforms, where does the P-19 typically go? 

Each SA-2 site having it's own SR is just a DCS thing. Real SA-2 sites may use a common search and acquisition radar between several different batteries. These radars are often not even placed at any of the batteries they feed information to. I supposed you could do the same within DCS, but I'm not sure of the limitations of unit placement distances.

[Chenstrap]

17 hours ago, Lt.Turbo said:

Each SA-2 site having it's own SR is just a DCS thing. Real SA-2 sites may use a common search and acquisition radar between several different batteries. These radars are often not even placed at any of the batteries they feed information to. I supposed you could do the same within DCS, but I'm not sure of the limitations of unit placement distances.

You can do this in DCS.

To my knowledge the limitation is the search radar and tracking radar need line of sight. So pick an elevated place for the search radar (I notice some of the rocket icons on the map arent at SAM sites, but mountain tops. Likely good choice), and place the tracking radars as needed. Coverage needs to overlap so I also wouldnt spread them out too far either.

[Nealius]

21 minutes ago, Chenstrap said:

I notice some of the rocket icons on the map arent at SAM sites, but mountain tops.

Some of those aren't SAM sites but EWR sites. If you fire up the mission and check those out there's radar domes where the Fan Song/Flat Face platforms are shown on the mission editor.

[Mr_sukebe]

Have to say that I was astounded at the sheer variety of SAM systems in use in Egypt.

For those of use trying to create something semi-realistic, that’s a complex template, and Will probably need several versions, eg 67, 73, late Cold War and modern.

[Northstar98]

On 6/17/2023 at 1:45 PM, Lt.Turbo said:

Each SA-2 site having it's own SR is just a DCS thing. Real SA-2 sites may use a common search and acquisition radar between several different batteries. These radars are often not even placed at any of the batteries they feed information to. I supposed you could do the same within DCS, but I'm not sure of the limitations of unit placement distances.

As far as batteries I've looked at online, they'll typically do both.

What you're describing is more of an IADS style set up, where you have several early warning sites which then feeds into some command and control centre and that's then used as the primary method of providing acquisition to whatever SAM battalion. However, each battalion itself will likely have its own dedicated acquisition radar for redundancy.

Unfortunately DCS doesn't really support this and AI data links in general are quite simplified.

An advantage of doing it this way is that you can have your SAMs coordinate with each other more effectively and, unless they've already been discovered (which is likely with fixed sites), they can remain quiet on their emissions (note that some systems will use wired and wireless connections) until they need to fire, potentially decreasing reaction times and complicating SEAD/DEAD somewhat.

One notable exception is the S-300/400 excluding the S-300V/VM, where the long-range acquisition radar is typically offsite (though you can find examples where they are colocated), though each battalion will usually have a Clam Shell colocated.