Spherical Earth Map

[Silver_Dragon]

Has some facts actualy:

• Old technology and maps cannot be exported to the future "Sphere World". That rules out any current product, both from ED and the 3rd parties, being compatible. (Confirmed by Wags / Nineline).
• TDK will get a version 2, exclusive with the "Spherical World" will require 3rd parties learn them to build the new maps. Old map technology will decrepated, and the old maps, build from the scratch, to inplement on the new map technology (Confirmed by Wags)
• Will coming diferents "era worlds" as only WW2 / Cold War / Moderns. I think the maps will "lock" with eras.

Aassumptions.

• The maps building will be similar to the actual maps, by zones.
• Interconecting future maps technology has unkonow.
• World map need coming with a low detail mesh or a "ED aka Bing type" map with procedural AI fill gaps.
• Other features as AI traffic, Weather, etc has unkonow.

[Tree_Beard]

22 hours ago, draconus said:

Well, that's the plan at least for a start last time they said anything about global map. The detailed maps are here to stay both for backward compatibility with missions/campaigns and for their detailed and interactive nature needed for the simulation of warfare and looks.

The current generation of detailed maps don't need to be erased from existence, but all future "detailed maps" should just be modules that improve or change regions of the global map.

 

 

 

[Dex0]

On 12/6/2023 at 9:28 PM, Tree_Beard said:

The current generation of detailed maps don't need to be erased from existence, but all future "detailed maps" should just be modules that improve or change regions of the global map.

 

 

 

That's right. It'll be so cool to fly around the world (as is possible now with 2 major sims) and enter an area back in time to play a specific scenario in history. And if ED is not currently working on a spherical world map, I doubt they'll have many customers left in 10 years' time. (I'm probably wrong about that :)) The tech to facilitate the development is already here. Personally, I don't want to wait another decade to see if this becomes a reality. Life is too short. And the next generations will demand it.

[SharpeXB]

I can’t quite see the use of this in DCS. The level of detail will probably be way too low to be appealing. I’d prefer more highly detailed smaller maps. Perhaps this thing is a big stretch goal looking way into the future where such detail becomes feasible but that’s rather mind blowing today. 
Honestly DCS hardly needs more maps, the ones we have now are very underutilized. They aren’t used by anyone in multiplayer, there aren’t many or any DLC campaigns set in them etc. 

[draconus]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Honestly DCS hardly needs more maps, the ones we have now are very underutilized. They aren’t used by anyone in multiplayer, there aren’t many or any DLC campaigns set in them etc. 

DCS only needs users that buy more stuff. It's these users that need more maps, modules and more content. There is plenty of campaigns both paid and free DLC, and many more are coming. The world map is needed for longer flights, bigger conflicts and transitions between high quality maps. Crawl up from the rock.

[SharpeXB]

17 minutes ago, draconus said:

DCS only needs users that buy more stuff. It's these users that need more maps, modules and more content. There is plenty of campaigns both paid and free DLC, and many more are coming. The world map is needed for longer flights, bigger conflicts and transitions between high quality maps. Crawl up from the rock.

You know I say that with all due sarcasm

It strikes me as amusing that there really isn’t much you can do with most of the maps. The Dynamic Campaign could make use of them. But I can’t imagine the DC working across the entire globe. 

Edited January 14, 2024 by SharpeXB

[SteelPig]

You can do a lot with the existing maps.
But, there are a lot of things you can't.
Seamless transition from your homeplate NAS Lemoore to a Carrier 100 NM offshore? Nope.
A cruise in the South China Sea? Nope.
CAS for OIR in the eastern parts of Syria? Nope.
Attacks on the Houthis in western Yemen? Nope.

 

And it is totally fine if none of that bothers you. But be aware there are people out there who do. 
 

[SharpeXB]

24 minutes ago, SteelPig said:

You can do a lot with the existing maps.

Only if you delve into the Mission Editor which is way too complicated and time consuming for most people. Outside of that there’s very little content or anything for the new maps. The Sinai map is gorgeous. Are there campaigns for it? No. Ever see it used in multiplayer? No. So you can do the free flight around it and see the Pyramids. Cool… whatever.

DCS certainly needs the Dynamic Campaign so there’s something you can actually do with all these. I can’t imagine the global map supporting the DC though. 

Sure a global map might have some uses but I can’t fathom this having enough detail to be appealing at all. Most all the DCS aircraft have a ground attack role. The kind of auto gen scenery a global map probably has will be nothing special to look at. 

[SteelPig]

3 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Only if you delve into the Mission Editor which is way too complicated and time consuming for most people. Outside of that there’s very little content or anything for the new maps. The Sinai map is gorgeous. Are there campaigns for it? No. Ever see it used in multiplayer? No. So you can do the free flight around it and see the Pyramids. Cool… whatever.

DCS certainly needs the Dynamic Campaign so there’s something you can actually do with all these. I can’t imagine the global map supporting the DC though. 

Sure a global map might have some uses but I can’t fathom this having enough detail to be appealing at all. Most all the DCS aircraft have a ground attack role. The kind of auto gen scenery a global map probably has will be nothing special to look at. 

That's why most squadrons have at least one guy who has the black belt in mission editor and does all that stuff. 
And I don't know how usefull the dynamic campaign engine will be in this regards. Will it be able to modulate political tensions under the bar of a hot conflict? I don't think so!

For me,as the guy with the black belt in my squadron, the spherical earth map would give so many opportunities. And if it gives me the opportunities, it gives them to the whole squadron. Cause I can create experiences for them with these tools. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, SteelPig said:

That's why most squadrons have at least one guy who has the black belt in mission editor and does all that stuff. 

Yeah that’s just a tiny fraction of a fraction of users though. I don’t think the typical player will have much use for the Global Map or find it that appealing. 

[Tom Kazansky]

I guess spherical earth will attract "some" people from those other sims, by giving them a task or a meaning for flying hours around the globe. Maybe even excitement flying alongside SAM-defended areas or having a fighter escort in certain regions, landing in war zones...

AWACS or A2A-refueling could be interesting when you have to plan and execute the whole mission within a (dynamic) campaign.

Edited January 15, 2024 by Tom Kazansky

[Northstar98]

8 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think the typical player will have much use for the Global Map or find it that appealing. 

Based on?

[Silver_Dragon]

9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yeah that’s just a tiny fraction of a fraction of users though. I don’t think the typical player will have much use for the Global Map or find it that appealing. 

The "spherical earth" will come to stay, and later, there will be more detailed area maps created by ED and the 3rd parties, in addition to the old ones, updated to said technology will be the future. I very much fear that the old "flat maps" will end up disappearing over time.

[average_pilot]

"Spherical" is the really important bit. Flat terrains are so last century.

I wonder what the simulation will consider the at rest frame of reference once the terrain grid stops being the de facto frame of reference. Quite the overhaul of the simulation engine I can imagine. In the past it took several iterations for the aircraft to behave while on the deck of a carrier. Imagine aircraft slowly drifting into orbit in the new Spherical Map, hehe.

Edited January 15, 2024 by average_pilot
grammar!

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

Based on?

The Spherical Earth Map is useful for:

- Flights longer than can be had on the smaller maps

- Flights in locations not covered by the smaller maps

Given the likelihood that typical players probably don’t make such long flights and the abundance and variety of smaller maps I don’t imagine a Global Map seeing as much use. The Global Map can’t be as detailed as smaller ones, nor is it probably collideable or destructible so it won’t be as appealing to use. 

3 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The "spherical earth" will come to stay, and later, there will be more detailed area maps created by ED and the 3rd parties, in addition to the old ones, updated to said technology will be the future. I very much fear that the old "flat maps" will end up disappearing over time.

That I can certainly see happening in the long run. But it seems a long time in the future. Maybe ten years out… It’s still quite farfetched to imagine a global map with the detail we have in the smaller custom ones. Plus there’s the need in DCS to do historical maps that can’t be auto-gen created. Plus the “small” maps in DCS aren’t exactly small. I’ve never run into the edge of one in all these years. 

Edited January 15, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s still quite farfetched to imagine a global map with the detail we have in the smaller custom ones. 

It's quite possible for a global map to have certain locations in high detail, and the rest of the world in slightly lower detail. I suspect it will be at least comparable to what civilian sims do. 

Historical maps will be a thing, however, based on comments from ED, these will not be flat. Nick Gray said Vietnam is waiting for spherical Earth tech, so we can presume that it'll use it. Sure enough, it'd be a big enough map that Earth being spherical will actually matter. This will probably be how things will be handled when it comes to historical maps.

[Northstar98]

18 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The Spherical Earth Map is useful for:

- Flights longer than can be had on the smaller maps

- Flights in locations not covered by the smaller maps

Given the likelihood that typical players probably don’t make such long flights and the abundance and variety of smaller maps I don’t imagine a Global Map seeing as much use.

The abundance and variety of smaller maps?

The majority of our maps (Caucasus, Syria, Sinai, SoH/PG, Iraq, Afghanistan) are all practically adjacent to each other, as are Normandy/Normandy 2.0 and the Channel (in the case of Normandy 2.0 and the Channel, they in-fact overlap in the areas they cover). I wouldn't exactly call that an abundance of maps, nor would I describe the variety as huge either, again most of them are just different places of middle east (though at least they all have their own historical potential, though sometimes it's difficult because sometimes areas relevant to some historical conflict aren't present in a usable way).

That still leaves loads of potential theatres not covered by our maps - Vietnam, Balkans, Eastern Front, Central Europe, South China Sea, GIUK Gap, etc. A world map would have all possible theatres, including all of the relevant areas for conflicts on those theatres.

Edited January 16, 2024 by Northstar98

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It's quite possible for a global map to have certain locations in high detail, and the rest of the world in slightly lower detail. I suspect it will be at least comparable to what civilian sims do. 

The thing is, as nice as the other one of those is out there, it’s still not good enough for a ground support combat game environment like DCS needs. It looks very nice from 10,000’ but not so much if you were going treetop level in a helicopter. A combat game needs the entire map to look good, not just parts of it. I get it that this is the future but it’s a future that’s way out there. 

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Nick Gray said Vietnam is waiting for spherical Earth tech, so we can presume that it'll use it. Sure enough, it'd be a big enough map that Earth being spherical will actually matter.

Yes you could use such tech for making smaller maps. Perhaps that’s what “Spherical Earth” means to DCS, not “global”. There’s just no real need for the entire globe to be in DCS. If you want to stretch your imagination for a combat sim map you could imagine more detail, more fidelity, more destructibility and interaction. But that’s an obstacle to just making it bigger. 

[SharpeXB]

8 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

The abundance and variety of smaller maps?

There are enough maps and environments right now in DCS you couldn’t exhaust all the gameplay potential of them if you tried. The game can barely make use of them all as it is. Again the Dynamic Campaign could change that. Unless you’re just looking at DCS as a “collector” of content and just want every part of the world and every era and every vehicle and every airplane in it. There are limits…

And all that paltry selection of maps only took like 14 years to create, so…

Edited January 15, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Northstar98]

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

A combat game needs the entire map to look good, not just parts of it.

Not necessarily, you only need the areas where combat is taking place to be high detailed, especially with more realistic starting locations.

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Perhaps that’s what “Spherical Earth” means to DCS, not “global”.

Then why is it referred to as an Earth map?

Quote

Notable tasks include DLSS/NIS, multi-threading, Vulkan API, Earth Map, updated weather,

Why is it referred to as being "the actual planet" or "the whole world"?

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

There’s just no real need for the entire globe to be in DCS.

Yes there is.

Edited January 16, 2024 by Northstar98
added links

[Northstar98]

36 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

There are enough maps and environments right now in DCS you couldn’t exhaust all the gameplay potential of them if you tried.

But there's plenty of gameplay potential unexplored because of an absence of maps or maps not covering relevant areas. I swear I've already said this.

39 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Unless you’re just looking at DCS as a “collector” of content and just want every part of the world and every era and every vehicle and every airplane in it.

I never suggested that, but fortunately, a world map would do this.

Even if you're not interested in every possible theatre, a world map offers you maximum flexibility here and even if you want just a limited selection of theatres you're covered.

If you stick with smaller regional maps (which often don't cover all relevant areas for conflicts localised to the region) you might always be waiting, with this you won't be.

[SharpeXB]

6 minutes ago, Northstar98 said:

If you stick with smaller regional maps (which often don't cover all relevant areas for conflicts localised to the region) you might always be waiting, with this you won't be.

I can’t imagine a global map with the level of detail that the regional maps have. That’s seems like an impossibility. One is really not a substitute for the other. I think most players would prefer detail and fidelity over size and local. 

[Northstar98]

14 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I can’t imagine a global map with the level of detail that the regional maps have. That’s seems like an impossibility.

I agree, it seems unfeasible from a size perspective alone.

But hopefully we can at least get higher detailed/historical regional maps that overwrite the areas they cover - exactly in the same fashion as just about every other flight sim with a world map.

16 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I think most players would prefer detail and fidelity over size and local. 

 Personally, if I'm interested in a particular map we don't have (for me that would be 1980s north and/or central Germany, GIUK gap, Baltic) my current options are:

1. A map that has the area present in low detail (which the world map would, only it would include every possible theatre, offering maximum flexibility).
2. Higher quality regional maps that don't feature it (assuming they go near it at all, which no current map does).

Then I'm choosing option 1. I'd rather have something than nothing. If the TDK can be made available for everyone, such that we can have user mods on terrain, then that would be ideal.

Though I should clarify that by low-detail, I mean at minimum:

• A low-resolution mesh
• Generic biome-specific textures (e.g. taiga, tundra, temperate steppe, urban etc).
• At least major aerodromes with the right layout, even with generic objects.
• Network of at least major roads
• Forests and urban areas handled by landclass and autogen.

I.e. what some flight simulators of old had as their base map.

[Mike Force Team]

@Silver_DragonWill ED gives us screenshots showing work on the global map anytime soon? Would be nice to see what it looks like even in the beta phase. 

Mike Force Team 

[Silver_Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Mike Force Team said:

@Silver_DragonWill ED gives us screenshots showing work on the global map anytime soon? Would be nice to see what it looks like even in the beta phase. 

Mike Force Team 

Has better wait to newsletters.