Many servers, few players?

[Pulstar]

This has always been a pet peeve of mine ever since I started  playing since the LOMAC days. DCS has gained exposure time and again due to unfortunate world events, but it seems the MP population is stagnant, and playing on Open Beta I can only find a handful of PVP servers and they're not heavily populated most of the time. Hopefully with GFM AI will become more feasible to fight against.

My question is, how come there are hundreds of empty or near-empty servers?

[Thamiel]

Because they can ?

[Steel Jaw]

Probably have numerous busy online severs but they are private and cant be seen.

[Rudel_chw]

17 minutes ago, Pulstar said:

but it seems the MP population is stagnant

Maybe MP is not as attractive as their players believe it to be?
 

I participated on MP for a year and a half and finally came to the conclusion that it wasnt for me, as I’m more of a learning player than a competitive one, and have little patience with some annoying mp users.

[Steel Jaw]

7 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

little patience with some annoying mp users.

Agreed.  From the Air Quakers to complete idiocy such as landing on the Supercarriers without proper comms or, worse, with non CV jets...some IDIOT landed a Strike Eagle on a carrier recreantly.  I have 2 issues with that behavior:  it's an affront to reality and, also, that jet cant use the catapult andso the only way back off is maybe a complete take off run from the ramp forward andso endangering everyone else on the deck.  I desperately want to gun those people.  There are few servers in which such stupidity is forbidden and bannable (as it should be).

Edited July 3, 2023 by Steel Jaw

[BIGNEWY]

39 minutes ago, Pulstar said:

This has always been a pet peeve of mine ever since I started  playing since the LOMAC days. DCS has gained exposure time and again due to unfortunate world events, but it seems the MP population is stagnant, and playing on Open Beta I can only find a handful of PVP servers and they're not heavily populated most of the time. Hopefully with GFM AI will become more feasible to fight against.

My question is, how come there are hundreds of empty or near-empty servers?

How busy servers are depends on the time of the day and what time zones are active. 

You should check early evening EU time, servers are busier for example then. 

image below from lunch time UK time, 1809 servers online, 2566 players, even if you assume 1809 of those players are server bots that leaves 757 users playing MP during a quieter time. 

Also note the community likes to use open beta more for MP.  

 

[SharpeXB]

Unfortunately the effect of having an Open Beta is that if you want to avidly play online that means giving up on a stable game experience. DCS runs the OB as its current release probably 90% of the time. So IMO it’s just not worth getting too heavily into MP. Frankly you don’t get to learn very much about the aircraft since all that goes on is spamming missiles at each other. It’s fun but only so much fun… And it becomes so repetitive playing literally the same missions over and over. 

[Raisuli]

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

I participated on MP for a year and a half and finally came to the conclusion that it wasnt for me, as I’m more of a learning player than a competitive one, and have little patience with some annoying mp users.

Second this.  The time it takes to log in, start the aircraft, find a target, plan a mission, take off, and fly to the active theater, and get shot down wasn't worth the effort.  It's much like any on-line game; if I had thirty or forty hours a week to practice I might get good enough.  In PVE the E has to be good enough to keep those well-trained Ps busy, in PvP you end up as the punch line of a joke when GS (or someone else) swats you before you get your seat belt adjusted and find the local classical station on the radio.

So I took the time to get reasonably proficient at the mission editor.  I still go down in flames, but at least the playing field is relatively level, and if it isn't I did that on purpose, too! 

Apart from which I can pause when the wife needs something, or I need something, or I just need a break, then come back and finish the flight.  Fight.  Raid.  Hop.  AAR.  Case 1 landing.  Whatever it is.

Once in a while I think it might be fun to fly with other people, then I read the squad recruiting poster for some hard-core mil-sim squad, inspections required before flight (personnel and berthing), we'll be at your house to ensure it's properly stowed in five minutes, and that usually cures me. 

I want to play the game, I don't want the game to play me.

[Kang]

To add a pet peeve of mine: there are actually different kinds of communities in DCS multiplayer. The fact that 'hardcore milsim' and 'air quake' are the kinds that get most of the attention betrays the fact that others exist as well.

Still, definitely get the sentiment that doing your own missions on your own time is just more convenient sometimes. The only trouble is that - admittedly slightly pending on scenario - the AI sometimes does have rather severe limitations, both as opposition and as ally.

[Pulstar]

10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

 And it becomes so repetitive playing literally the same missions over and over. 

Taking off with the J11A or F16C on the same runways on Georgian map for the umpteenth time really does get tedious, yes.

[Baldrick33]

Multiplayer is an enthusiast playground. ED just provide the tools.

There is way too much content to regularly populate servers with aircraft and maps a player might wish for, notwithstanding a myriad of difficulty options that player might desire.

To achieve multiplayer for the masses you need an established base of users with a very limited content to create critical mass before you allow players to host their own servers. You need to make multiplayer more attractive than single player by either offering incentives to grind content or restricting access to it through limiting AI availability and/or capability. With numbers comes the opportunity to effectively matchmake and provide competitive environments for all levels of ability, which in turn grows numbers. This allows for growth of content without diluting the players on the core servers.

There can be good business reasons to do so (think certain sim racing and war combat multiplayer titles) but that is a completely different business model where multiplayer numbers are key to success than we have here.

Personally I would doubt it is worth the effort and pain. It can't be done half heartedly, there are countless sim racing titles where people bemoan the lack of people, the poor matchmaking and dire standards. The enthusiasts enjoy the freedom to choose and are prepared to put in the effort to organise events. Being at the very top end of the ability they provide a flagship for demonstrating the capability of the sim.

[BIGNEWY]

15 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Unfortunately the effect of having an Open Beta is that if you want to avidly play online that means giving up on a stable game experience. DCS runs the OB as its current release probably 90% of the time. So IMO it’s just not worth getting too heavily into MP. Frankly you don’t get to learn very much about the aircraft since all that goes on is spamming missiles at each other. It’s fun but only so much fun… And it becomes so repetitive playing literally the same missions over and over. 

Open beta is a public test build. 

The multiplayer community chose to use open beta for multiplayer, we understand why, but it was not our choice. 

Stable version still has servers, but not as many.

 

[Hiob]

23 hours ago, Steel Jaw said:

Agreed.  From the Air Quakers to complete idiocy such as landing on the Supercarriers without proper comms or, worse, with non CV jets...some IDIOT landed a Strike Eagle on a carrier recreantly.  I have 2 issues with that behavior:  it's an affront to reality and, also, that jet cant use the catapult andso the only way back off is maybe a complete take off run from the ramp forward andso endangering everyone else on the deck.  I desperately want to gun those people.  There are few servers in which such stupidity is forbidden and bannable (as it should be).

 

Dude, relax. It is still a game. As others and yourself pointed out, there are "mil-sim" servers that forbid such behavior. But there are also a lot of people that simply don't have enough spare time to go through all the procedures (including cold starts) all the time and still want to fly competitive against other humans from time to time. Wether you want to call that "air quake" is up to you, but it still is a valid way to have fun with DCS.

[BIGNEWY]

Many people play DCS in different ways, especially in multiplayer. Each to their own, enjoy it. 

If you want something specific search for a group of like minded people or server that shares your play style, or create your own server with your own rules. 

Its what I have done personally for the last decade + of flying DCS, I like COOP, I like ground attack, and I like it serious, I found a group of people to fly with and have done for many years. 

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Stable version still has servers, but not as many.

The only servers running Stable are Training and Aerobatic ones. There’s just one small PvP “dogfight” style server. 
 

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

Open beta is a public test build. 

Players treat it as the de facto release version though, so in practice it’s not a “test”. If ED wanted viable multiplayer, the first step would be to eliminate the OB. Now that might not be the best from a testing standpoint but in order for mp to flourish everyone needs to be playing the same version. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Raisuli]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Players treat it as the de facto release version though, so in practice it’s not a “test”. If ED wanted viable multiplayer, the first step would be to eliminate the OB. Now that might not be the best from a testing standpoint but in order for mp to flourish everyone needs to be playing the same version. 

 

I've got a quarter that says if ED eliminated OB the multiplayer community would not significantly change.

Of course my quarter is safe because they won't.    It's all a question of priorities what what players consider important.  I'd be pretty gobsmacked if ED hasn't already crunched those numbers. 

[SharpeXB]

38 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

I've got a quarter that says if ED eliminated OB the multiplayer community would not significantly change.

Of course my quarter is safe because they won't.    It's all a question of priorities what what players consider important.  I'd be pretty gobsmacked if ED hasn't already crunched those numbers. 

Multiplayer just doesn’t seem like priority. From what I’ve heard only 10% of players do MP so that would only make sense. Of course part of what likely contributes to that low number is the fact that you’d have to put up with a buggy game in order to participate. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by SharpeXB

[Raisuli]

2 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Of course part of what likely contributes to that low number is the fact that you’d have to put up with a buggy game in order to participate. 

 

Trying to remember the last game-stopping bug I've run into.  Exported screens when MT first came out, and even that was ignorable if I used the main MFDs.  Then again, I don't use VR, which makes a difference, don't install mods, which is pretty much guaranteed to make a difference, and I'm not very twitchy, which probably makes a bigger difference.  I'd absolutely love to sit down over a beverage and get your take on what about OB makes it unplayable, because I honestly don't see it. 

I watch some of the bug reports come in and a fairly large percentage are, based on my experience with DCS (5 or 6 years) and computers (43 years) either underlying OS/hardware, mod incompatibility, or just flat out users getting fired up without really understanding what's going on...PEBKAC.

Not saying that's gospel, just my impression.  More than willing to change that based on new data; I totally get VR users have problems I'm completely ignorant about, and maybe that's it.

[MadKreator]

3 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

Trying to remember the last game-stopping bug I've run into.  Exported screens when MT first came out, and even that was ignorable if I used the main MFDs.  Then again, I don't use VR, which makes a difference, don't install mods, which is pretty much guaranteed to make a difference, and I'm not very twitchy, which probably makes a bigger difference.  I'd absolutely love to sit down over a beverage and get your take on what about OB makes it unplayable, because I honestly don't see it. 

I watch some of the bug reports come in and a fairly large percentage are, based on my experience with DCS (5 or 6 years) and computers (43 years) either underlying OS/hardware, mod incompatibility, or just flat out users getting fired up without really understanding what's going on...PEBKAC.

Not saying that's gospel, just my impression.  More than willing to change that based on new data; I totally get VR users have problems I'm completely ignorant about, and maybe that's it.

I would have to agree here. I’ve only ever used open beta, and I’ve never found it game breaking or inherently buggy. The major issues get squashed quickly, but I’ve  never in years, ever deemed it in an unplayable state. I always wondered why there were even two branches. I would agree that the majority of bug reports seem confined to a small percentage. I read a lot of them and very rarely have I ever encountered 99% of them. I don’t really VR either, so consider that excluded

[SharpeXB]

35 minutes ago, Raisuli said:

Trying to remember the last game-stopping bug I've run into.  Exported screens when MT first came out, and even that was ignorable if I used the main MFDs.  Then again, I don't use VR, which makes a difference, don't install mods, which is pretty much guaranteed to make a difference, and I'm not very twitchy, which probably makes a bigger difference.  I'd absolutely love to sit down over a beverage and get your take on what about OB makes it unplayable, because I honestly don't see it. 

I watch some of the bug reports come in and a fairly large percentage are, based on my experience with DCS (5 or 6 years) and computers (43 years) either underlying OS/hardware, mod incompatibility, or just flat out users getting fired up without really understanding what's going on...PEBKAC.

Not saying that's gospel, just my impression.  More than willing to change that based on new data; I totally get VR users have problems I'm completely ignorant about, and maybe that's it.

If the Beta is so reliable then why have a Stable version? Clearly there are reasons why it takes months and months for the Stable version to be released. 

[Raisuli]

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

If the Beta is so reliable then why have a Stable version? Clearly there are reasons why it takes months and months for the Stable version to be released. 

That might be the most interesting question I've ever seen on this board. 

Correct me if I'm wrong (or just confused) but the implication is OB must have stability issues by definition or it wouldn't be OB.  That would discount the possibility that a significant majority of players are not affected by those issues.  Speaking only for myself I've never run into an issue with OB that makes me think stable is preferable.  Obviously other people have other issues, but now I have to wonder how much you've taken OB out for a spin to see how it works in your particular environment.

If you've been avoiding it because of that pesky Greek letter you might be in for a pleasant surprise.  Maybe not, but the odds are very much in your favor.  If you're one of the people who have the issues ED needs to hunt down before stable, then please ignore everything below the quote box! 

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, Raisuli said:

That might be the most interesting question I've ever seen on this board. 

Correct me if I'm wrong (or just confused) but the implication is OB must have stability issues by definition or it wouldn't be OB.  That would discount the possibility that a significant majority of players are not affected by those issues.  Speaking only for myself I've never run into an issue with OB that makes me think stable is preferable.  Obviously other people have other issues, but now I have to wonder how much you've taken OB out for a spin to see how it works in your particular environment.

If you've been avoiding it because of that pesky Greek letter you might be in for a pleasant surprise.  Maybe not, but the odds are very much in your favor.  If you're one of the people who have the issues ED needs to hunt down before stable, then please ignore everything below the quote box! 

If it’s a “test” version, what is it testing? Bugs, stability etc. Again it takes many months of work to turn this into a Stable version, so clearly there are reasons. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Personally I pass when it comes to the "competitive PvP scene".
What I'd prefer is a cooperative PvE squadron, but finding a community that works for you and your personal preferences and more importantly keeping that community together is quite the challenge.
Obviously the PvE AI isn't there yet, but I have hopes for the future since it's actively being worked on.
There's nothing that beats the experience of a multi-crew aircraft that you occupy with someone you get along with. But again, finding someone who - consistently - has the same playtime as you is a problem.

But I also enjoy simply flying around and enjoying the scenery. I learn the aircraft at my own pace with simple missions or heavily edited TTI missions I keep for personal use.
Other than that there are a lot of really excellent player-made campaigns

[SharpeXB]

The game is literally advertised as two different versions. “Best for Single Players” and “Best for Multiplayer” The  Open Beta isn’t a “test” version in practice but a different sort of de facto release version. 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/world/

[Baldrick33]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The game is literally advertised as two different versions. “Best for Single Players” and “Best for Multiplayer” The  Open Beta isn’t a “test” version in practice but a different sort of de facto release version.

It is the opposite of the world I lived in of competitive sim racing where bugs that can be exploited for competitive advantage need to be squashed in testing.

I guess it exists similarly in combat flight sims but DCS isn't designed with fair competitive multiplayer as a primary goal. The development moves through various stages of unfairness in early access as systems get developed - missiles that have advantages they shouldn't, missiles that suffer disadvantages waiting for the development of radar and so on. To the extent that getting the early fixes is perceived as levelling up to the multiplayer community and worth the risk of a game breaking issue. It is a different mindset. One that with my background in sim racing I find a little hard to grasp but I can rationalise it.

Whereas for single player the balance in single player campaigns has been tried and tested in stable, which each open beta needs to be reviewed. Hence campaigns tend to get updated in open beta prior to promotion to stable. Of course stuff can slip through but it kind of makes sense.