How to disconnect rudder from trim?

[RichardG]

How do I disconnect rudder from the cyclic trim? I dont want to trim rudder, only cyclic. Does the real helo trim the rudder pedals too??

 

All the trim problems (for me) in the game are from the rudder.

[auricom]

You can't disconnect the rudder from the trim in the real chopper, so you can't in DCS..

 

Use the RCtrl-Enter display and if your rudder trim is off just do a Ctrl-T reset trim, then quickly retrim so you don't pitch back

 

practice practice practice it's pretty much reflex for me at this point I don't even think about it, just do it..

[RichardG]

Accumulated rudder error causes problems in the SIM. That doesnt happen in the real bird. Disabling rudder from trim will correct the problem. Then, my rudder trim will NEVER be off. :)

Edited February 24, 2009 by RichardG

[-sulan-]

I'd like to do the same thing, since I have non-centering pedals and an FFB stick I think it'd be much nicer.

[H-street]

Accumulated rudder error causes problems in the SIM. That doesnt happen in the real bird. Disabling rudder from trim will correct the problem. Then, my rudder trim will NEVER be off. :)

 

is it a hardware error rudder error?

[rapid]

is it a hardware error rudder error?

 

I don't think the OP has an actual error message its more of I don't want trim to control my rudders...:music_whistling:

[Jack57]

If you turn on Flight Director all Autopilot is disabled except the dampening - this way accumulated trim isn't an issue.

[mrtube]

do you turnthe flight director on and turn off the other buttons to achieve this Jack? Or just turn flight director on in addition to them, like a kind of override? Mark

[CAT_101st]

If you have TIR or FT just look down at your pedals center them their and trim. Or just reset the trim. Fixes the problem every time.

[EinsteinEP]

If you turn on Flight Director all Autopilot is disabled except the dampening - this way accumulated trim isn't an issue.

While it is true that the autopilot can only provide axis stabilization in F/D mode, this does not affect trim, which is independent of autopilot.

[JDski]

While it is true that the autopilot can only provide axis stabilization in F/D mode, this does not affect trim, which is independent of autopilot.

 

You can trim while in F/D mode as well. Then turn F/D back off

 

 

do you turnthe flight director on and turn off the other buttons to achieve this Jack? Or just turn flight director on in addition to them, like a kind of override? Mark

 

Leave the heading, pitch and bank hold channels on when turning on F/D mode.

Edited February 24, 2009 by JDski

[lion737]

In 1.0.1 user can adjust neutral position ("dead zone") separately for pitch, poll and rudder (in parts of full scale). So, if you set HelicopterTrimmerZoneRudder = 1.0 - you don't need to return pedals in center at all.

 

If I get this right, we will be able to disable rudder trim that way.

Edited March 4, 2009 by lion737

[PeterP]

"non FFB Rudder patch"

 

Hello - I was also searching long for a solution to unchain the rudders and the Trim of the cyclic.

 

I finally found it more or less by accident:

 

I haven't connected my Saitek Rudder pedals correctly before flight and I tried to control the rudders with the keyboard while controlling the rest with my Cougar.

While doing this I realised that after hitting only short "x" or "y" (Default keys for rudder control) it instantly overrides the trimmed position of the Rudders and it will be in a neutral position again wile the cyclic remains in trimmed position.

 

So I programmed a little script for my Cougar:

 

USE ALL_DIRECTX_BUTTONS 
USE MICROSTICK AS MOUSE (11, 3, 1)

REM  This resets the Trim of the rudders immediately  to a neutral 
REM  position after trimming the Ka-50, so you 
REM  have full control over the rudders and your rudder input will stay the
REM  same while the Stick is trimmed to a new position.

BTN H4U /H t
BTN H4M {y x}

BTN H4 is the four way switch at the left side of the handel that you controll with your thumb.

 

And the script works as follows:

While I hold the button forward it sends "t" for Trim. When I release the button to the Middle position (BTN H4M) it sets a new trim to the cyclic (because "t" isn't pressed any more) and also sends to very short keystrokes of "x" and "y" simultaneously and resets the rudder to its neutral position again instead of adding the Trim to your current position.

 

That leads to the nice effect that You will not have a misalignment of your real and virtual position.

I mean when I look into the cockpit than I don't see full rudder left while I'm holding my legs neutral after trimming. It will always reflect my real position and I don't have to "Look down" any more to know where my rudders are.

So I don't have to readjust my feet every time when trimming (...and I trim very often...) .

 

I can now fly very stable in crosswind and while flying hard turns.

 

I think this script should also be very easy to adapt to a X52 or other programmable device. And it's absolutely irrelevant witch rudder input you use.

This is how the script should work for your Trim button (button X):

when "button X" is pressed = permanent keystroke "t" until release the button -for Trim

if "button X" is released = sending short keystroke of "x"+"y" -for recentre the rudders to the actual real position

 

And you can easily try it yourself before programming:

press once short "x" or "y" after you trimmed your rudders - and watch what will happen - :)

 

 

I hope you enjoy this "non FFB Rudder patch" until the patch comes out (or someone offers working FFB rudders) - and have also the same "boost" of your flying skills like I had.

Edited April 19, 2009 by PeterP

[Safari Ken]

Nice job! :thumbup:

[PeterP]

Thanks!

 

I have made a new tagged thread in the

ED Forums » English » Simulation » Cockpits and HOTAS section

- so hopefully people will find the answer quickly when they search for it and this thread is buried again under tons of new ones.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=40624

[Yskonyn]

Is the 'accumulated rudder trim' error related to keep trimming without resetting the trim, because I would imagine that's not really an error, more a pilot's error if you want to call it one.

 

I don't seem to have any problems with rudder trim. Just press the reset button and trim for the new state of the aircraft to trim it properly.

Also beware that the trim only trims after 'releasing' the trim button, not while 'pressing' it.

 

Maybe I don't understand the point in this thread, if so, please enlighten me. ;)

[nemises]

^^ the acculated error he talks about is the fact that, even if you trim rudder, the spring mechanism on your USB pedals, or the twist on your stick will still re-center the physical controls, whereas in "real life" trimming would keep the controls at their trimmed center position....because of this it is very easy to over trim (double transforms!) the controls.

 

You "shouldnt" really use reset trim, as it doesn't exisit in the real KA50 , but I guess it is an acceptable work around considering our auto-centering controllers.

 

I find it very easy to press ctrl-enter , and manually re-trim rudders to center when flying.

 

I certainly don't find it a problem though, once you know it hapenns, it is just another thing to be aware of when flying.

[USSR_Rik]

I'd like to add to discussion my personal opinion: if you want to exclude rudder from trimming mechanism, then your trimming technique is wrong. Improve it!

[PeterP]

Dear Rik,

that's exactly what I did with this scripting. -I improved my trimming!

 

A real KA-50 pilot has not to recentre his feet after he trimmed his controls and I have now the same on my rudders.

 

This is how I understand the mechanical trimming of the real Ka-50:

While holding trim-button there is no spring load at the controls,

and after He release the trim, a new centre position of the spring load will be set to the position of the controls.

So a real Pilot has not to move his controls after he released the trim button. He only moved the centre position of the spring load.

And he did this without feeling strong force at his stick while he was holding the trim button.

 

This is something you can't simulate without working FFB at the the stick and rudders.

I can live with that to move my stick each time I trim but I don't see the necessary to do this also with my feet.

 

I think that a trim function should be there to take workload from the pilot (real or virtual) and not add some more.

 

I fly better and much more save when I'm able to keep my rudder position where it is/was.

 

BTW:Right now I'm also at the point where I want to remove the internal springs of my Cougar and making the bearings stiffer that the stick will hold his position- even if I have deflected the stick only to 50%. So that the stick will not recentre after I release the handle or get a MS-FFB2 ASAP - but It's hard to move from a cougar back to plastic with less buttons...

Edited April 20, 2009 by PeterP

[geloxo]

Thanks for the idea PeterP. I just tried it on my cougar today. Simple and effective, so perfect for my needs :thumbup:

 

Cheers

[EinsteinEP]

I'd like to add to discussion my personal opinion: if you want to exclude rudder from trimming mechanism, then your trimming technique is wrong. Improve it!

I second that!

 

But, these tools will help folks who don't want to improve their technique and I must say I'm impressed with the creativity. I just hope it doesn't get "fixed" into the sim!

[Sharkster64]

Just a note, you guys aren't crazy. The game was programmed so that the helicopter would try to keep the heading with the autopilot using the rudder. If you start a coordinated turn and then straighten out, the rudder will point the nose in the previous heading that the autopilot was trimmed to. This is not the way the FM is supposed to work. When turning, the rudder is supposed to keep the coordinated turn. This was a mistake in the programming and this has been brought up by a pilot already. ED is apparently rectifying this issue in the patch. To get by until then, either use flight director which only dampens the controls, or hold the trim button during any coordinated turn and release after holding present heading. Some people just don't notice this issue because they have just become accustomed to holding the trim down during turns.

 

Just test this out. Lift off from an airfield without giving any inputs. Then use your rudder to turn the aircraft. You will notice that when you center the rudder, it will turn back to the previous heading from when you lifted off. This is not supposed to happen. In the real aircraft, when you center the rudder, the aircraft should maintain the current heading. ;)

 

I just hope a patch comes out soon to resolve this issue.

[Sharkster64]

EvilBivol-1

Online Community Manager

 

 

Join Date: Nov 2003

Location: Кишинёв, Los Angeles (1993+)

Posts: 3,376

Reputation: 36

 

Quote:

If I'm turning, and I hit "Trim," and heading hold is on, then the helo would be fighting itself to maintain the bank attitude necessary for the turn whilst simultaneously maintaining heading.

Answer:

In a turn, the AP yaw channel should try to maintain your turn parameters, not your heading. This logic was presented to ED after code final, so it will be added in the patch.

__________________

EB

Am I evil?

I am man

 

Last edited by EvilBivol-1; 04-17-2009 at 01:36 AM.

 

 

Here is what was said by EvilBivol in the thread 'Crazy Yawing'.

[Fish]

sorry posted in wrong thread.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Fish

[lion737]

I second that!

 

But, these tools will help folks who don't want to improve their technique and I must say I'm impressed with the creativity. I just hope it doesn't get "fixed" into the sim!

 

Hi Einstein, you obviously just don´t want to get the point:

 

Do that in a real heli : light deflection of rudder, keep cyclic steady.

push trim 5 times.

 

Nothing will happen !

 

Do the same in the sim (version 1.0) and you will have full (!!) rudder imployment. Please don´t tell me about improving trim technique - PLEASE !

 

regards

 

PS: BS is a great sim, but i stopped flying it as i can´t correct that bug (no script possible with the MSFFB2).

I am waiting for the patch. I just don´t get used to falling out of the sky cause of a few trim clicks - allthough it is

only a PC sim :-))

Edited August 1, 2009 by lion737