reported 'Engine Degraded' with WEP usage

[Brigg]

18 hours ago, Cool-Hand said:

Engine degraded after shutdown Aug2nd.trk 4.26 MB · 2 downloads

 

I fly ~5 mins WEP, subsequently land right after this run and taxi off the runway. The engine degrades two minutes sixteen seconds AFTER shutting down the engine. This is almost a carbon copy of how the Mustang was a few years back. I have included the Track, Debrief, and video of the Track. Not sure what all else I can provide for this as evidence there is a problem with the modelling.

 

 

Wait what it degraded after shutdown, yeah that's not right. It does seem that the plane that had the most rugged engine is also the most fragile in dcs at times. Also just to rule it out have you tried uninstalling the module then putting it back in 

[Cool-Hand]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:30 AM, Brigg said:

Wait what it degraded after shutdown, yeah that's not right. It does seem that the plane that had the most rugged engine is also the most fragile in dcs at times. Also just to rule it out have you tried uninstalling the module then putting it back in 

 

If you don't want to download and watch the track, click on the ~3 min video of the track I posted and fast forward to the end. The engine is off and the failure pops up after a little over 2 mins, I have the log visible in the video. Also, see the debriefing screen I posted with timestamps.        

I've had it happen a few times online after engine off and rearming and refueling, only to start and have,what I could only surmise, the engine degraded. I don't think I can see the failure log in multiplayer. I had a day in between work and recorded this on my second run to test and see if that was what was really going on.

Yes, I've reinstalled the module and DCS for that matter. Previously back in January when I posted the thread I was using a  Warthog Stick and Throttle with and without TARGET, then direct in game mapping. I upgraded to Virpil CM3 and Alpha stick use RS mapper currently but tried also direct binding in game to check.  Software and hardware I think can be ruled out...except on ED's end.

[peachmonkey]

1 hour ago, Cool-Hand said:

I don't think I can see the failure log in multiplayer

you can, it's saved into Users\yourusername\Saved Games\DCS\Logs  folder. There's a bunch of entries through out the flight, search for the word "failure" and you'll see the entries for every single failure you happened to experience during the MP flight.

[Cool-Hand]

Ah thanks, had no idea!

[Cool-Hand]

Downloaded today's patch used 5 mins of ADI, landed, engine degraded after shutdown. Attached screenshot details times in the track.

Engine degraded after shutdown Aug14th.trk

[Diamondviper]

Yeah this has unfortunately been an issue for a couple years now it feels. I found one method that I think works by only flying the aircraft from a hot ground start. only cowl flaps I close are the engine and I turn the intercooler open all the way. The oil cooler is open all the way by default and I don’t touch it. Not even once. I did this a couple times in single player so far and had 0 issues except one. For some reason the engine degraded issue will happen once I reach 26,000 feet in cruise for some reason. So far all of my testing has been with the boost connected to the throttle. All else aside this has let me use the web continuously until it runs out without any issues and even land and refill the injection to use it again.

[Cool-Hand]

13 hours ago, Diamondviper said:

Yeah this has unfortunately been an issue for a couple years now it feels. I found one method that I think works by only flying the aircraft from a hot ground start. only cowl flaps I close are the engine and I turn the intercooler open all the way. The oil cooler is open all the way by default and I don’t touch it. ......

I don't think that's correct operation to leave everything wide open, especially the intercooler doors. With the oil and intercooler doors open how much more are you gaining in top speed vs just running full military power? That's alot of drag to pull through the sky for little gain. I certainly appreciate you suggesting a work around to the problem, but I would like ED to fix this so we can operate in a normal way...ala not having engine failures in cruise randomly or after the engine is shutdown after landing.  It seems like some random failure that gets activated when ADI is used for any length of time because it's certainly not related to the engine even running at all if it at variable times after shutdown the engine 'degrades.'

[Diamondviper]

Yeah I understand it’s not ideal. At sea level top speed with boost and those rad configs I get a little over 300kts. It’s not great but the jug was never faster than the 109 or D9 anyways. I really wish the bug could be solved permanently but I guess this is a better alternative than not flying the aircraft at all. Guess you’ll barely outrun the A8 too

[Cool-Hand]

September 30th patch same behavior after WEP usage and landing...'engine degraded' after shutdown. Sometimes sooner, sometimes way later after shutdown. This was the most extreme I bother to let it go. I saw this was flagged as reported, any status update on this? @NineLine

 

Engine degraded after shutdown SEP30th.trk

Edited October 1, 2024 by Cool-Hand

[grafspee]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:26 PM, Cool-Hand said:

The R-2800 was renowned for its durability, ED needs to fix it so that one can at least operate the engine as laid out via the engine charts in the pilots manual. 

Yeah ED tend to model engines that you can't operate engine acording to manuals. I don't know who and why makes that decision when you check first free acces manual for plane which contradict that engine modeling.  Same thing is with engine over revving it took countless fixes and still we are not in regime what manual says. We can't over rev engine to 3000 w/o killing it.

At least this is case for allied planes,  i can remember that we could over rev fw a8 to ridiculous rpms and engine was completely fine.  Maybe some balance , pls move that harsh modeling a little bit for axis side too.

Edited October 1, 2024 by grafspee

[Toothless]

Just to confirm that Cool Hand not the only one with a problem - P-47`s engine seems to continue to wear out even when it is turned off. 

Engine surge failure on 10:25:15. P-47 was turned off.

P-47D_engine_falure.trk

Edited November 29, 2024 by Toothless

[Art-J]

^ What was oil temp when it happened?

I've noticed that when oil gets hot in flight for whichever reason, it's very dfficult to make it cool down during and after landing. Sometimes it even gets hotter and goes beyond temp redline after engine shutdown, almost like automotive turbochargers which were not cooled properly.

I understand that idling / low RPM engine doesn't provide much airflow through cylinders and oil coolers, on the other hand though, it doesn't produce much power either.

[Toothless]

13 минут назад, Art-J сказал:

^ What was oil temp when it happened?

I've noticed that when oil gets hot in flight for whichever reason, it's very dfficult to make it cool down during and after landing. Sometimes it even gets hotter and goes beyond temp redline after engine shutdown, almost like automotive turbochargers which were not cooled properly.

I understand that idling / low RPM engine doesn't provide much airflow through cylinders and oil coolers, on the other hand though, it doesn't produce much power either.

I didn`t overheat or overcool the engine, but I used WEP for few minutes and intercooler couldn't cope with mixture temperature (I think thats not correct too) and I had a little knock once or twice. 

[grafspee]

Intercooler should be at least in neutral position every time turbo is used.  

Carb air temp must be below red line all the time, if your carb air temp is close to redline you have to open intercooler more or reduce boost from turbo.

Edited November 29, 2024 by grafspee

[Toothless]

6 часов назад, grafspee сказал:

Intercooler should be at least in neutral position every time turbo is used.  

Carb air temp must be below red line all the time, if your carb air temp is close to redline you have to open intercooler more or reduce boost from turbo.

Yes, I use intercooler in proper way, but carb air temperature exceeds limits at 26 000 feet and engine running on WEP 64`/2700, intercooler is fully opened. Is it right, how do you think?

[grafspee]

5 hours ago, Toothless said:

Yes, I use intercooler in proper way, but carb air temperature exceeds limits at 26 000 feet and engine running on WEP 64`/2700, intercooler is fully opened. Is it right, how do you think?

I remember i had high carb air temp but it was way higher somewhere around 40k ft. And your turbo rpm looks high for 26k that is weird.

[Reflected]

Yes something weird is definitely going on. I can't use 5 min WEP either, the engine breaks before that a 100% ('m not exceeding the red line)

Also keep in mind that the manual wouldn't say "5 min limit" if the engine broke for sure at 5:01.

If WEP keeps having its degrading effects after shutdown that's an additional problem on top of this.

[grafspee]

2 hours ago, Reflected said:

Also keep in mind that the manual wouldn't say "5 min limit" if the engine broke for sure at 5:01.

Unfortunately someone in ED team with decision making ability actually believe that 5min limit mean that after 5 min and 1 second engines blows out.

Just immagine if DCS had system for saving engine health and state so we could reuse same engine for next flight. That would be ridiculous because at this state single engine can't handle single fligh which sometime takes less then hour. And try to reach expected 200-300h of engine life time. 

Edited December 1, 2024 by grafspee

[Gunfreak]

7 hours ago, grafspee said:

Unfortunately someone in ED team with decision making ability actually believe that 5min limit mean that after 5 min and 1 second engines blows out.

Just immagine if DCS had system for saving engine health and state so we could reuse same engine for next flight. That would be ridiculous because at this state single engine can't handle single fligh which sometime takes less then hour. And try to reach expected 200-300h of engine life time. 

I would really like to have a "word" with whomever in the 90s decided that ww2 aircraft in sims should have snowflake engines. And decided to take the manual as some religious text that was perfect and absolute. I can only remember once in the myriad of books I've read/listened to about ww2 areal combat that i pilot specifically mentioned he worried as he had run his engine too hard. 

 

If the manual said WEP max 5 minutes, you can bet your ass that in combat between young men fighting for their lives they ran WEP for 15 minutes and still could fly 5 hours back home just fine.  It ment a longer service overhal of the engine and if done often. Probably ment they ripped out the engine and out in a new one. I guess people just like having to fine fiddle their engine stuff and it would be "boring " if you could just WEP for 20 minutes. But that would be more realistic.

[Cool-Hand]

10 hours ago, Reflected said:

Yes something weird is definitely going on. I can't use 5 min WEP either, the engine breaks before that a 100% ('m not exceeding the red line)

Also keep in mind that the manual wouldn't say "5 min limit" if the engine broke for sure at 5:01.

If WEP keeps having its degrading effects after shutdown that's an additional problem on top of this.

Nineline said on the discord channel that they have found the bug and fix may or may not be in the next patch. Yeah coming up on a year since I started posting the first tracks on this.

[=475FG= Dawger]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

I would really like to have a "word" with whomever in the 90s decided that ww2 aircraft in sims should have snowflake engines. And decided to take the manual as some religious text that was perfect and absolute. I can only remember once in the myriad of books I've read/listened to about ww2 areal combat that i pilot specifically mentioned he worried as he had run his engine too hard. 

 

If the manual said WEP max 5 minutes, you can bet your ass that in combat between young men fighting for their lives they ran WEP for 15 minutes and still could fly 5 hours back home just fine.  It ment a longer service overhal of the engine and if done often. Probably ment they ripped out the engine and out in a new one. I guess people just like having to fine fiddle their engine stuff and it would be "boring " if you could just WEP for 20 minutes. But that would be more realistic.

ED does this in other modules as well, not just with WWII engines. To compound the problem, they often incorrectly apply this very literal interpretation. I suspect the developers are not fluent in the language of the manual and are using Google translate instead of spending money on an actual translation by a qualified translator with aviation knowledge. 

[Gunfreak]

27 minutes ago, Cool-Hand said:

Nineline said on the discord channel that they have found the bug and fix may or may not be in the next patch. Yeah coming up on a year since I started posting the first tracks on this.

Yeah. One of the many reasons WW2 is is getting less and less interesting. You can do any of the reflected campaigns. Because who wants to start a 90 minute to 3.5  hour long mission when you don't know if the bugs will ruin the experience for you. 

[Cool-Hand]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Yeah. One of the many reasons WW2 is is getting less and less interesting. You can do any of the reflected campaigns. Because who wants to start a 90 minute to 3.5  hour long mission when you don't know if the bugs will ruin the experience for you. 

Yeah i like replaying the wolf pack campaign here and there but haven't in a while because of this issue specifically. It's really hard to justify burning that much time doing something just to have the engine conk out cruising back after an hour or so flight in and a few minutes of action.

[Gunfreak]

Doesn't seem this got fixed ib the last patch.

[SloppyDog]

On 12/4/2024 at 2:25 PM, Gunfreak said:

Doesn't seem this got fixed ib the last patch.

In the December 24th, 2024 update, they said they fixed it:

DCS 2.9.11.4686 

DCS: P-47D Thunderbolt by Eagle Dynamics

• Fixed. Engine degraded with WEP usage

I have to test it though.