waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Hammer1-1]

28 minutes ago, Pipe said:

I’m not a fanboi either way, Razbam has unfinished modules no doubt. I think it’s fair to say very few modules in DCS are complete. 
I have no knowledge about what is going on in other sims, don’t use them. 
I am pissed that they have not been paid, somewhat for selfish reasons, I have many RB planes. But also seems the little guy is being bullied. 
If Razbam is in the wrong contractually, why wouldn’t ED just go through legal channels? Let’s face it, would be better for everyone if RB was still working on there planes. And the paying public was none the wiser. 
 

Boeing seems to have many issues..

Do you see any other 3rd party devs complaining about not being paid? Im not saying they arent, but merely pointing out that Razbam has a bit of a temper when it comes to public relations; diplomacy isnt really a sought out trait for some people -including myself. Some people cant take constructive criticism, some people cant see fault in their own work, and some people just dont know when to reflect back on past mistakes and fix it for the future. As for contracts go, obligations are obligations; they come with their own rewards or punitive damages. If they dont make budget, they wont get allocated more money and they may have to reduce hours or people. If they dont make schedule, they may lose a bonus or face penalties. If they dont make a product missing a bunch of schedules, then they lose the good faith and then their integrity is at risk. If your partner loses confidence in your work, they can outright cancel your contract, not pay until you've delivered on your promise, or in extreme situations (not saying this is in the contract between ED and other 3rd parties) relieve you of the work and contract another party to complete the task. Essentially you get fired. Im certain some benchmarks were never met. Think of this: how many modules has Razbam delivered, and why havent they been paid in 8 months? Certainly should be getting paid for some of them, but no? Thats a question everyone should be asking but I havent seen anyone bother with it yet. No, I dont think a contracted quota was satisfied, and wont be satisfied for a while...and certainly wont be satisfied any faster with the current bonfire at the moment. I hope they resolve this issue...and I really hope that Razbam doesnt go the way of VEAO...but you know what happens when you have two abusive partners who stay together.

I kinda think (maybe incorrectly, iuhho...) that maybe the F-15E wasnt selling so well.....but that is just an uneducated guess of mine.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Rainmaker]

2 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

Do you see any other 3rd party devs complaining about not being paid? Im not saying they arent, but merely pointing out that Razbam has a bit of a temper when it comes to public relations; diplomacy isnt really a sought out trait for some people -including myself. Some people cant take constructive criticism, some people cant see fault in their own work, and some people just dont know when to reflect back on past mistakes and fix it for the future. As for contracts go, obligations are obligations; they come with their own rewards or punitive damages. If they dont make budget, they wont get allocated more money and they may have to reduce hours or people. If they dont make schedule, they may lose a bonus or face penalties. If they dont make a product missing a bunch of schedules, then they lose the good faith and then their integrity is at risk. If your partner loses confidence in your work, they can outright cancel your contract, not pay until you've delivered on your promise, or in extreme situations (not saying this is in the contract between ED and other 3rd parties) relieve you of the work and contract another party to complete the task. Essentially you get fired. Im certain some benchmarks were never met. Think of this: how many modules has Razbam delivered, and why havent they been paid in 8 months? Certainly should be getting paid for some of them, but no? Thats a question everyone should be asking but I havent seen anyone bother with it yet. No, I dont think a contracted quota was satisfied, and wont be satisfied for a while...and certainly wont be satisfied any faster with the current bonfire at the moment. I hope they resolve this issue...and I really hope that Razbam doesnt go the way of VEAO...but you know what happens when you have two abusive partners who stay together.

I kinda think (maybe incorrectly, iuhho...) that maybe the F-15E wasnt selling so well.....but that is just an uneducated guess of mine.

 

You're obviously either just trolling, or just have zero actual clue how to research anything before chiming into the thread in the first place.  Why even comment in here if you are that far out to lunch?  Both parties have laid out statements.  

And even attempting with the comment that the -15 didn't sell well?  Are you really trying to be serious right now or are you just that clueless?

Edited May 25, 2024 by Rainmaker

[Evg85]

The RAZBAM business model reminds me of the Pyramid scheme, with all these promised but unfinished modules. Every time they create a new project based on famous aircraft in order to get as much money as possible on the wave of hype. After the hype disappears and the financial flow decreases, they abandon the old project and create a new hype project and the cycle repeats again. RAZBAM is not about love and passion for airplane modeling. It's about quick and easy money.

[Hammer1-1]

33 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

You're obviously either just trolling, or just have zero actual clue how to research anything before chiming into the thread in the first place.  Why even comment in here if you are that far out to lunch?  Both parties have laid out statements.  

And even attempting with the comment that the -15 didn't sell well?  Are you really trying to be serious right now or are you just that clueless?

 

I just said I dont "think" the -15 sold that well, what part of that is confusing to you? That was an assumption "I" made, and I thought I "made that clear". Crystal clear as a matter of fact. And what was the statement made? Razbam hasnt been paid, and ED admitted to that? What else? Nothing else? Ok thanks. Anything else Ive stated is because Ive been following Razbam for the better part of 2 decades, whats your experience like?

Edited May 25, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[Rainmaker]

3 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

I just said I dont "think" the -15 sold that well, what part of that is confusing to you? That was an assumption "I" made, and I thought I "made that clear". Crystal clear as a matter of fact. And what was the statement made? Razbam hasnt been paid, and ED admitted to that? What else? Nothing else? Ok thanks. Anything else Ive stated is because Ive been following Razbam for the better part of 2 decades, whats your experience like?

 

 

Since you seem to be hanging on to the 'years' you have been flight simming over and over here in your posts like its supposed to mean something, would you like everyone's resume or something?  No one cares.  I'll throw you a bone though.  My 'flight simming' goes back to Falcon 3.0.  I first beta tested for a title called "Sierra Pro Pilot' back in 1998 I think it was.  I was doing MP back when dial-up was still the 'only' thing.  And yes, I am well aware of who they are and where they came from.  There.  Does that entertain you?  LoL

"Im certain some benchmarks were never met. Think of this: how many modules has Razbam delivered, and why havent they been paid in 8 months? Certainly should be getting paid for some of them, but no? Thats a question everyone should be asking but I havent seen anyone bother with it yet."

Answers were already given via NG's statement. 

"On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights"

Whether or not you believe that is legally okay for one party to decide that, and withhold money as though 'guilt' has already been legally decided outside the court of law, is up to you.

[Lace]

9 hours ago, Ignition said:

This businesses model doesn't work like that. If no one buys the EA then there will be no modules developed. Someone needs to pay beforehand so the development can continue.

 

Of course, and some people are happy to take the risk.  Pros - you receive the module early, and usually at a discounted rate, Cons - there is a chance, albeit small, that it will never reach a completed state for any number of reasons.

[SkateZilla]

6 hours ago, Pipe said:

They delivered a module as good as any in dcs if not better, what did they get? Nothing

Sat around for a month? They worked many months without pay, I’m sure by your posts that you would be agreeable to this?

Must be nice to live in your moms basement and not worry about eating or bills to pay

Prolly should chill with assumptions about other users living arrangements, and the use of specific adjectives.

We don't need any drama to derail the thread and get it locked.

 

Edited May 25, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Hammer1-1]

2 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

 

Since you seem to be hanging on to the 'years' you have been flight simming over and over here in your posts like its supposed to mean something, would you like everyone's resume or something?  No one cares.  I'll throw you a bone though.  My 'flight simming' goes back to Falcon 3.0.  I first beta tested for a title called "Sierra Pro Pilot' back in 1998 I think it was.  I was doing MP back when dial-up was still the 'only' thing.  And yes, I am well aware of who they are and where they came from.  There.  Does that entertain you?  LoL

"Im certain some benchmarks were never met. Think of this: how many modules has Razbam delivered, and why havent they been paid in 8 months? Certainly should be getting paid for some of them, but no? Thats a question everyone should be asking but I havent seen anyone bother with it yet."

Answers were already given via NG's statement. 

"On the contrary, the current disagreement is the result of improper actions that have been taken by Razbam Simulations, in breach of its contractual obligations towards our company and of our legally protected IP rights"

Whether or not you believe that is legally okay for one party to decide that, and withhold money as though 'guilt' has already been legally decided outside the court of law, is up to you.

You seem to think that Razbam -other than the aformentioned improper actions- hasnt done anything wrong. I can assure you (and you would know had you been paying attention to Razbam over the years and years like myself) that they arent without guilt. Again, what have you seen over the years regarding Razbam and their quality of work? Thats what I asked you but you spouted off about Falcon 3 or whatever. Cognitive dissonance I guess. Failing to meet contractual obligations will result in you not getting paid or your contracts cancelled, thats how business works - again you should already know this.

[Gizmo03]

Can someone help me? I‘m a bit lost. What was this thread about? It‘s not clear anymore.

[Hammer1-1]

5 minutes ago, Gizmo03 said:

Can someone help me? I‘m a bit lost. What was this thread about? It‘s not clear anymore.

you mean other than Razbams PR is questionable?

[Gizmo03]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Hammer1-1:

you mean other than Razbams PR is questionable?

Yes, because that‘s not the question in the title of this thread. Whats the status of the current situation - that’s the topic. Not „what did RB wrong?“ Not „what did ED wrong?“ Not „who is playing sims since when or who started with which game?“ Or „who is working in the software industries?“
 

[Alpiinoo]

Will there be any conclusion now? It really took a lot time and we paid for these modules.

[SkateZilla]

I wouldn't speculate on motive's or circumstances guys. It does no good, other than to spread rumors, as people like to snip and clip forum posts and discord messages for use in facilitating rumors for views.

[Rainmaker]

5 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

You seem to think that Razbam -other than the aformentioned improper actions- hasnt done anything wrong. I can assure you (and you would know had you been paying attention to Razbam over the years and years like myself) that they arent without guilt. Again, what have you seen over the years regarding Razbam and their quality of work? Thats what I asked you but you spouted off about Falcon 3 or whatever. Cognitive dissonance I guess. Failing to meet contractual obligations will result in you not getting paid or your contracts cancelled, thats how business works - again you should already know this.

When you have something useful to bring to the table besides 'trust me I know cause I followed them' then you can let the rest of us know.  Until then...pretty much a waste of time.

[Ignition]

3 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

I wouldn't speculate on motive's or circumstances guys. It does no good, other than to spread rumors, as people like to snip and clip forum posts and discord messages for use in facilitating rumors for views.

Because people want to know the truth.

We only know that all the Razbam modules aren't receiving updates since February and Razbam has no money a few months after releasing a popular aircraft.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, Ignition said:

all the Razbam modules aren't receiving updates since February

 

Not accurate, the South Atlantic map was updated last Friday.

[Ignition]

18 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

 

Not accurate, the South Atlantic map was updated last Friday.

It was an update already mentioned in the discord a long time ago.

And I'm not sure but I believe its another team, which works with Razbam.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Ignition

[DN308]

Try to buy a brand new car without the wheels and the windshield, and be happy with that…

[Rudel_chw]

3 minutes ago, DN308 said:

Try to buy a brand new car without the wheels and the windshield, and be happy with that…

 

I'm not happy with the current RB-ED situation, but whining constantly about it will not make any difference apart from annoying other DCS users.

Instead, what I'm doing is withholding all my DCS purchases (almost all, couldn't refrain from purchasing Kola, but I did refrain from the CH-47 and Afghanistan), until this situation is solved ... but I will still keep playing DCS as I have quite a lot of modules already purchased and abandoning them would solve nothing.

[DN308]

Sure. 
I’m not whining, I’m just worried about the fact that I have paid for something that I should loose soon without any consideration for the customers.

Of course I will still fly other modules but I’m just really disappointed and concerned 

[Pipe]

50 minutes ago, Ignition said:

It was an update already mentioned in the discord a long time ago.

And I'm not sure but I believe its another team, which works with Razbam.

 

+1

Edited May 25, 2024 by Pipe

[Hammer1-1]

6 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

When you have something useful to bring to the table besides 'trust me I know cause I followed them' then you can let the rest of us know.  Until then...pretty much a waste of time.

You're welcome to go away. Thanks. Matter of fact, nice little button over there that allows you to ignore someone. Get acquainted with it.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Hammer1-1

[SkateZilla]

6 hours ago, Ignition said:

Because people want to know the truth.

We only know that all the Razbam modules aren't receiving updates since February and Razbam has no money a few months after releasing a popular aircraft.

so how does spreading rumors or indulging in them get you the truth?, it doesn't, what it does is cause drama and delay both sides coming to an agreement.

You can pull your hair out for weeks, it's not gonna get you the answers you seek.,

Edited May 25, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Gunnar81]

Promised summer 2024 Harrier updates to external model and systems and finished manual. When RB?

 

[scommander2]

4 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

You can pull your hair out for weeks, it's not gonna get you the answers you seek.,

I guess that I can focus F-4E instead F-15E for now.