waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[Talon Karde]

44 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

We understand Wizard, I hope once we have a resolution everyone can go back to enjoying the F-15E. 

No matter what happens DCS is here to stay and we continue to grow and work towards improving DCS. 

have a great weekend. 

Just pay Razbam ! Fault is 110% on you.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

18 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Do you know how many games are listed on MS Store and Steam that arent supported no more by the developer studio w/ no disclaimer?

You're taking something that's common place every where, and using it to demonize ED.

I'm sorry but this is not a valid comparison.
DCS is an ever-evolving product so the only way that you know for sure to get what you pay for is to halt DCS updates indefinitely, which in essence locks you out of all future modules AND updates to other existing modules that you might own unless you keep 2 separate installations.
If you don't do that, stuff will eventually break. That is a certainty.

Games that are being sold on Steam that are no longer supported are no longer being worked on, so you know for sure that something that works now will still work in a year from now, or 5 years from now (unless a newer version of Windows breaks compatibility).
In case of DCS you don't know, unless you stick to an obsolete version - which is the exact same situation as with the VEAO Hawk.

[SkateZilla]

Just now, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

I'm sorry but this is not a valid comparison.
DCS is an ever-evolving product so the only way that you know for sure to get what you pay for is to halt DCS updates indefinitely, which in essence locks you out of all future modules AND updates to other existing modules that you might own unless you keep 2 separate installations.
If you don't do that, stuff will eventually break. That is a certainty.

Games that are being sold on Steam that are no longer supported are no longer being worked on, so you know for sure that something that works now will still work in a year from now, or 5 years from now (unless a newer version of Windows breaks compatibility).
In case of DCS you don't know, unless you stick to an obsolete version - which is the exact same situation as with the VEAO Hawk.

You answered your own question:
 

Games that are being sold on Steam that are no longer supported are no longer being worked on, so you know for sure that something that works now will still work in a year from now, or 5 years from now (unless a newer version of Windows breaks compatibility).

 

It's that the same scenario as what I just said?
Windows O/S is a ever evolving product as well.

Right now the modules still work, you have no way of knowing if an update will break them, just as much as you have no way of knowing if a windows update would break EOL software. *(and yes it Happens A-LOT). which is also why most power users, run older versions of Windows in a VM environment, which is also the same as running 2 separate installations.

[Pipe]

3 hours ago, nessuno0505 said:

 

It's obvious they do not want. It seems that ED is more interested in keeping RB than RB in staying.

Really so you would work for free? Very charitable of you….

[nessuno0505]

2 ore fa, SkateZilla ha scritto:

As far as credits:
F-15E is still early access, with future support in negotiations, which is reasonable to ask for refunds, due to uncertainty that advertised features would be finished.

AV-8B, M-200C, MiG-19, and S.A. are listed as feature complete, so not likely to get any sort of compensation for them,

They are fully operational modules, regardless of updates breaking them in the future, updates arent mandatory for the end user.

 

1 ora fa, Shibbyland ha scritto:

This is not a reasonable position to take.

I agree.

Premise: I do not own RB modules. But, as far as I'm concerned, I am more prone to consider F-15E not refundable, since in early access and thus not sure to be finished by definition. All the other RB modules are finished products so they must continue to work until DCS world exists. "We will not refund, if they break install an older version" is the same non-solution of the veao hawke! I hope RB comes back to work, so they can improve and refine all their modules (I am still waiting for the av-8b manual before purchase), but if Razbam leaves, to refund only the f-15 and to suggest people to run older DCS versions for the other RB's modules is not a proper answer. I hope this is only a SkateZilla's idea and not ED's plan if things go wrong.  

5 minuti fa, Pipe ha scritto:

Really so you would work for free? Very charitable of you….

What former RB's collaborators say on Discord is not necessarily all the truth, and we do not know the whole story. Other 3rd parties are regularly paid, so why not RB? 

Edited June 8, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Rainmaker]

4 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

For the record RAZBAM have access to the tools they need and their repositories are open if they wish to update their modules. 

----------------------------------------

 

Folks I have had a tidy up in the thread, people making it personal will be moderated, if you can not treat people with respect do not post here, if you keep breaking the rules when posting you will acquire warning points and eventually lose access to the forum. 

 

And they currently do not have access to past and future profits that they make from updating said products. You left that part out. I’ll add it. 
 

And remember, I screenshot my posts as I make them in case of them magically disappear again. 

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

And they currently do not have access to past and future profits that they make from updating said products. You left that part out. I’ll add it. 
 

And remember, I screenshot my posts as I make them in case of them magically disappear again. 

if you stick to the rules you can reply, please make sure you read them. 

[Fuchs]

Galinette explained on 25/05 that in fact RB has try to make big money on the "pro/Gov" market without using/paying for the pro version of DCS (MCS)
arguing that apparently ED has no specific rules at that time against...

When we know how much a pro contract can bring in your account with the support costs and so on, we can understand why ED was a bit mad...

[nessuno0505]

4 minuti fa, Fuchs ha scritto:

Galinette explained on 25/05 that in fact RB has try to make big money on the "pro/Gov" market without using/paying for the pro version of DCS (MCS)
arguing that apparently ED has no specific rules at that time against...

When we know how much a pro contract can bring in your account with the support costs and so on, we can understand why ED was a bit mad...

If this is the nature of the debate, why the hell did DCS players get in the middle of it? Who do we want to blame? Meditate people, meditate...

Edited June 8, 2024 by nessuno0505

[Rainmaker]

8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

if you stick to the rules you can reply, please make sure you read them. 

Okay, so, you know exactly what post got deleted.  What was the rule?  Keep in mind, screenshots exist.

[BIGNEWY]

Just now, Rainmaker said:

Okay, so, you know exactly what post got deleted.  What was the rule?  Keep in mind, screenshots exist.

Clearly you have not read the rules and we wont be hashing it out here, if you have a problem with moderation please PM me or Nineline to discuss. 

thank you

[Fuchs]

3 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

If this is the nature of the debate, why the hell did DCS players get in the middle of it? Who do we want to blame? Meditate people, meditate...

 

Ask it to RB, they are the one who put this <profanity> out to the customer and stop support.

As far as I can see and know ED is not the one closing the door to the talks

[nessuno0505]

3 minuti fa, Fuchs ha scritto:

Ask it to RB

I agree with you. It's RB that suddently decided to stop updates, even if it seems the debate is ongoing for a year...

[Beirut]

2 hours ago, LordOrion said:

How can I ask a refund too?

 

For my part, I don't want a refund. I just want my F-15E to continue flying and get some updates.

 

But I understand that some would want their money back. 

[Horns]

11 hours ago, =DROOPY= said:

Entitled~

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

 

 

 

 

en·ti·tled

/inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/

 

adjective

adjective: entitled

1. believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

   "kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them"

We have a lot of users for whom English is not their native language, so we generally don't criticize spelling or grammar. In any case, this isn't a classroom, and for that matter, that is not the only definition of 'entitled'.

[SkateZilla]

24 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Okay, so, you know exactly what post got deleted.  What was the rule?  Keep in mind, screenshots exist.

Please take the moderation dispute private, posts are soft deleted and can be viewed/restored by mods at any time, so it's not like it's gone and they have no record of what was said.

Darn internet delay, lol.

Edited June 8, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Horns]

4 hours ago, DUSTY said:

Name ONE that released in a better EA state than the SE.

There aren't any.

The AH64 was decent but still lacked enough features and had enough multicrew issues to be extremely frustrating.

I can name three: F-4, F-14 and F/A-18, and those are just from my hangar.

[Rainmaker]

Just now, SkateZilla said:

Please take the moderation dispute private, posts are soft deleted and can be viewed/restored by mods at any time, so it's not like it's gone and they have no record of what was said.

I'm aware.  Thanks.  Pretty sure the mods can speak for themselves.

[SkateZilla]

Just now, Rainmaker said:

I'm aware.  Thanks.  Pretty sure the mods can speak for themselves.

Ouch, 
[/

[tribbin]

19 minutes ago, nessuno0505 said:

I agree with you. It's RB that suddently decided to stop updates, even if it seems the debate is ongoing for a year...

There are at least two claims from both sides that you skip.

1. ED claims breach of contract.
2. RB claims not being paid for a very long period.
3. This is where you step in with your "suddenly decided".

I don't know what is true anymore, but I do know that people tend to pick a side and ignore anything that might challenge how they want to view the situation.

[SkateZilla]

Contrary to the twitter-sphere theory, it's more likely that RB ran out of capital to pay the employees to keep working while waiting to resolve the issue and get their sales shares, than it is ED ran out of money. which would be better aligned with why "they suddenly stopped working". etc etc.

rumors are everywhere and they do no good...

if I had a dime for every rumor I've heard, I could prolly pay RB'

#JustSayin
 

Edited June 8, 2024 by SkateZilla

[Horns]

I hope Big or Nineline might be able to answer this:

As much as I and a bunch of others are enjoying following this thread, nothing will practically change between now and the next patch, which at this stage has to be at least a month away. If people stop monitoring the forum and things progress negatively (eg Razbam not continuing to operate in DCS) will affected product owners be updated on the situation, or do we need to keep monitoring ourselves? Edit: When there is greater clarity, will it be included in the weekly news?

Thanks

Edited June 8, 2024 by Horns
Asked about weekly news

[Ornithopter]

I'm surprised this thread is still going on this morning, but If they are actually giving out refunds for the SE, I would think that would resolve the issue for a lot of people.  I wanted to buy a plane when I did, and I bought the SE, but in retrospect, I would have gotten something else.  So if they actually give you a store credits at this point, it's like never having bought it in the first place, isn't it?  Some people might stubbornly insist on being consumer purists, but relinquishing the Strike Eagle for a different airplane or helicopter would certainly work for me. 

[primus_TR]

15 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

it's more likely that RB ran out of capital to pay the employees to keep working

Spot on. Bad faith all over. 

[Silver_Dragon]

4 hours ago, Fuchs said:

Galinette explained on 25/05 that in fact RB has try to make big money on the "pro/Gov" market without using/paying for the pro version of DCS (MCS)
arguing that apparently ED has no specific rules at that time against...

When we know how much a pro contract can bring in your account with the support costs and so on, we can understand why ED was a bit mad...

If this was real, they would have dug their own grave... (It would mean it is a violation of the EULA). I remember some advertising, with a company on professional simulation events, making adversiting with the RAZBAM F-15E... let's hope I'm wrong.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Silver_Dragon