waiting for resolution RAZBAM Situation Post Archive (will be deleted)

[LordOrion]

7 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

We're simflyers, not lawyers. So it's reasonable many see these things as simflyers and not as lawyers.

Are you saying we can't use GBU-27 to settle legal disputes?

Edited March 18 by LordOrion

[Davee]

1 hour ago, Beirut said:

 

We're simflyers, not lawyers. So it's reasonable many see these things as simflyers and not as lawyers.

 

In that light, a year is a long time.

As usual, speak for yourself only!   Thanks

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Davee said:

As usual, speak for yourself only!   Thanks

 

My apologies. I didn't know you were a lawyer.

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, Beirut said:

 

My apologies. I didn't know you were a lawyer.

No one is here, but as pointed out you do not represent everyone in the thread, people will have a different point of view. So lets not have this pointless back and forth please. 

 

[LancerVI]

It's easy to be patient on someone else's dime. 

[Koziolek]

20 hours ago, Davee said:

As usual, speak for yourself only!   Thanks

And that's what all of us do, apart from Bignewy and Nineline.

And maybe a few posts I saw starting: "I'm asking for a friend who is not on this forum..."

[Neqva]

22 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

"No one is here" 

 

Hey! Lawyers enjoy flight sims as well!  Just curious, but recently quite a few known youtubers have started showcasing the F15E again. Is there any hope of any progress currently beeing made that would allow for people to get their hopes up a little bit? Not asking if theres a resolution cooming straight away, but are we at least seeing something to gives us hopes that it will come to an agreement, at some point? Or are we still completely in the dark and the YouTubers are just showcasing a good looking module by coincident at the moment?

[BIGNEWY]

7 minutes ago, Neqva said:

Hey! Lawyers enjoy flight sims as well!  Just curious, but recently quite a few known youtubers have started showcasing the F15E again. Is there any hope of any progress currently beeing made that would allow for people to get their hopes up a little bit? Not asking if theres a resolution cooming straight away, but are we at least seeing something to gives us hopes that it will come to an agreement, at some point? Or are we still completely in the dark and the YouTubers are just showcasing a good looking module by coincident at the moment?

Hi, I believe what happened is some comments from RAZBAM were made in their discord that sounded positive and youtubers picked up on it and made some speculation videos. 
We don't have any news to share currently but we are all working towards a good outcome for all. As soon as we can share news we will let you all know officially. 

thank you 

[Mizzy]

On 3/19/2025 at 8:17 PM, BIGNEWY said:

Hi, I believe what happened is some comments from RAZBAM were made in their discord that sounded positive and youtubers picked up on it and made some speculation videos. 
We don't have any news to share currently but we are all working towards a good outcome for all. As soon as we can share news we will let you all know officially. 

thank you 

Exactly, it is not an official announcement from Zambrano (Razbam) about anything to do with this dispute. Move along Citizens, nothing to see here officially !

Mizzy

On 3/19/2025 at 4:39 PM, Koziolek said:

And that's what all of us do, apart from Bignewy and Nineline.

And maybe a few posts I saw starting: "I'm asking for a friend who is not on this forum..."

Indeed

On 3/19/2025 at 8:06 PM, Neqva said:

Hey! Lawyers enjoy flight sims as well!  Just curious, but recently quite a few known youtubers have started showcasing the F15E again. Is there any hope of any progress currently beeing made that would allow for people to get their hopes up a little bit? 

Nothing official, so no.

Miz

Edited March 21 by Mizzy

[happyhappy]

What will happen to the F-15ES module if the legal dispute with Razbam does not go well?

Losing a module?

Is development going to end with the current half-finished module?

I think it would be good to announce what they're planning to do.

Users who bought it on Steam can't even get a refund, and it's still on sale 

 

 

 

[LordOrion]

5 minutes ago, happyhappy said:

What will happen to the F-15ES module if the legal dispute with Razbam does not go well?

Losing a module?

Is development going to end with the current half-finished module?

I think it would be good to announce what they're planning to do.

Users who bought it on Steam can't even get a refund, and it's still on sale 

In case of SNAFU the module won't receive any furter updated or fix and it will continue to work for a while, but at the end it will be gone as the Hawk.

Edited March 21 by LordOrion

[Beirut]

5 hours ago, LordOrion said:

In case of SNAFU the module won't receive any furter updated or fix and it will continue to work for a while, but at the end it will be gone as the Hawk.

 

If it can at least remain in the state it is now, I'll be happy with that.

[Dragon1-1]

That might be a problem once DCS moves to 3.0, with the Vulkan renderer. We don't know how much there'll be to change on module side of things. I hope they get this resolved before that happens.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

On 3/21/2025 at 11:13 AM, LordOrion said:

In case of SNAFU the module won't receive any furter updated or fix and it will continue to work for a while, but at the end it will be gone as the Hawk.

That represents the worst case scenario in the sense that I'm not sure the Strike Eagle is comparable to the Hawk, at least in terms of community depth. It's not a controversial position to state that the Strike Eagle might have a few more interested in it than the Hawk.

And while the Hawk could be jettisoned with minimal damage, I do not think the Strike Eagle sits in such a tenuous position. In the event of total collapse, ED has no other choice but to take over development for themselves. That is an immensely tall task. Who knows how much they'd have to write from scratch? They realistically can't just leave it to digitally rot, basically. I'm positive that's the reason that ED hasn't just stated they'd be moving on from RB from the start. Could they afford to? Probably. Would it be wise? No.

So, realistically, I think that the Strike Eagle very much as a future, but it's a choice of different futures with the outcome of RB returning being the best outcome over all and the others being less than favorable to say the least.

[LordOrion]

1 minute ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

That represents the worst case scenario in the sense that I'm not sure the Strike Eagle is comparable to the Hawk, at least in terms of community depth. It's not a controversial position to state that the Strike Eagle might have a few more interested in it than the Hawk.

And while the Hawk could be jettisoned with minimal damage, I do not think the Strike Eagle sits in such a tenuous position. In the event of total collapse, ED has no other choice but to take over development for themselves. That is an immensely tall task. Who knows how much they'd have to write from scratch? They realistically can't just leave it to digitally rot, basically. I'm positive that's the reason that ED hasn't just stated they'd be moving on from RB from the start. Could they afford to? Probably. Would it be wise? No.

So, realistically, I think that the Strike Eagle very much as a future, but it's a choice of different futures with the outcome of RB returning being the best outcome over all and the others being less than favorable to say the least.

An User asked for the worst case scenario and I gave him the worst case scenario

I agree with you that ditching the F-15SE whould have a bigger impact that the Hawk, but keeping alive a dead module forever is something completely unrealistical.

It won't happen in the short term, but one day ED will have to choose between continuing to support the SE or introducing one or more improvements/changes to the game's Core Engine that will make it incompatible.

So, in case of SNAFU, I'm sure ED will do its best to keep alive the SE as long as possible, but be prepared to lose it one day.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

24 minutes ago, LordOrion said:

An User asked for the worst case scenario and I gave him the worst case scenario

I agree with you that ditching the F-15SE whould have a bigger impact that the Hawk, but keeping alive a dead module forever is something completely unrealistical.

It won't happen in the short term, but one day ED will have to choose between continuing to support the SE or introducing one or more improvements/changes to the game's Core Engine that will make it incompatible.

So, in case of SNAFU, I'm sure ED will do its best to keep alive the SE as long as possible, but be prepared to lose it one day.

Ok, very fair. That is, indeed, the worst case!

[rob10]

4 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Who knows how much they'd have to write from scratch?

That's pretty easy to answer: 100%.  If things go that badly south Razbam likely isn't going to make a deal with them on any of it and since it's Razbam's IP then ED can't use any of it.  All they could do would be try and keep it alive from the outside by feeding it the info it wanted/needed.  And as was said elsewhere that's not a forever solution realistically.  If they did make a deal for some access to it they'd probably be better off to start from scratch rather than try and learn what was there anyway.  So need to hope it gets resolved "positively" in the end.

Edited March 22 by rob10

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

2 hours ago, rob10 said:

That's pretty easy to answer: 100%.  If things go that badly south Razbam likely isn't going to make a deal with them on any of it and since it's Razbam's IP then ED can't use any of it.  All they could do would be try and keep it alive from the outside by feeding it the info it wanted/needed.  And as was said elsewhere that's not a forever solution realistically.  If they did make a deal for some access to it they'd probably be better off to start from scratch rather than try and learn what was there anyway.  So need to hope it gets resolved "positively" in the end.

I wanted to say 100%, but I'm not privy to the code and if there's any they can re-use. Either way, it'd be detrimental for all involved.

[PLAAF]

I still don't get it. I heard that ED was accusing Razbam of using unlicensed things. So, what does ED want Razbam to do to prove that they haven't or have stopped doing so? Just tell them what you want them to do and let Razbam do it, so we can just put this behind us.

Seriously, sometimes I started to suspect this whole thing is just another Capcom VS. SNK war.

[happyhappy]

Here's what I think

Even if the legal issues between ED and RB are resolved, RB will not be able to continue developing SE.

Most of them probably already have other jobs.

The best thing to do would be to sell all rights to ED or a third party and let them continue development.

At least I don't expect it from them.

I don't care about Rasbam

 

[Hiob]

55 minutes ago, PLAAF said:

I still don't get it.

That is because you‘re making assumptions or trying to conclude based on incomplete information of the “I heard that…” kind. Source “trust me, bro”

This isn’t a public affair. Even if some want it to be. Trying to make sense of it is futile. 

This thread serves two purposes only:

- fighting boredom and
- venting frustration 

You will only get valuable information from it when official sources proclaim official results. In which case, you won’t be able to miss it, because it will be all over the place.

[Pipe]

3 hours ago, Hiob said:

You will only get valuable information from it when official sources proclaim official results. In which case, you won’t be able to miss it, because it will be all over the place.

I highly doubt there will be any info made available, let alone anything of value

Edited March 23 by Pipe

[Hammer1-1]

9 hours ago, PLAAF said:

I still don't get it. I heard that ED was accusing Razbam of using unlicensed things. So, what does ED want Razbam to do to prove that they haven't or have stopped doing so? Just tell them what you want them to do and let Razbam do it, so we can just put this behind us.

Seriously, sometimes I started to suspect this whole thing is just another Capcom VS. SNK war.

I have (ONLY) a sneaking suspicion it involves a certain competitor that Razbam is currently working with on exactly the same thing. IMO of course. I will leave it at that.

Edited March 23 by Hammer1-1

[Horns]

On 3/22/2025 at 12:08 AM, happyhappy said:

What will happen to the F-15ES module if the legal dispute with Razbam does not go well?

Losing a module?

Is development going to end with the current half-finished module?

I think it would be good to announce what they're planning to do.

Users who bought it on Steam can't even get a refund, and it's still on sale 

 

 

 

 

On 3/22/2025 at 12:13 AM, LordOrion said:

In case of SNAFU the module won't receive any furter updated or fix and it will continue to work for a while, but at the end it will be gone as the Hawk.

 

23 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

That represents the worst case scenario in the sense that I'm not sure the Strike Eagle is comparable to the Hawk, at least in terms of community depth. It's not a controversial position to state that the Strike Eagle might have a few more interested in it than the Hawk.

And while the Hawk could be jettisoned with minimal damage, I do not think the Strike Eagle sits in such a tenuous position. In the event of total collapse, ED has no other choice but to take over development for themselves. That is an immensely tall task. Who knows how much they'd have to write from scratch? They realistically can't just leave it to digitally rot, basically. I'm positive that's the reason that ED hasn't just stated they'd be moving on from RB from the start. Could they afford to? Probably. Would it be wise? No.

So, realistically, I think that the Strike Eagle very much as a future, but it's a choice of different futures with the outcome of RB returning being the best outcome over all and the others being less than favorable to say the least.

 

23 hours ago, LordOrion said:

An User asked for the worst case scenario and I gave him the worst case scenario

I agree with you that ditching the F-15SE whould have a bigger impact that the Hawk, but keeping alive a dead module forever is something completely unrealistical.

It won't happen in the short term, but one day ED will have to choose between continuing to support the SE or introducing one or more improvements/changes to the game's Core Engine that will make it incompatible.

So, in case of SNAFU, I'm sure ED will do its best to keep alive the SE as long as possible, but be prepared to lose it one day.

Please point out where happyhappy asked what the worst case scenario was? As far as I can see - and at the time I write this I see no indication they edited their response - they asked "What will happen to the F-15ES module if the legal dispute with Razbam does not go well?" You gave one possible outcome out of the several ways we know it could go, and didn't clarify that you were only giving them the worst case scenario. Fair enough to point out that's one way it could go, but at least make it clear if you're only giving a partial answer.

[LordOrion]

38 minutes ago, Horns said:

Please point out where happyhappy asked what the worst case scenario was? As far as I can see - and at the time I write this I see no indication they edited their response - they asked "What will happen to the F-15ES module if the legal dispute with Razbam does not go well?" You gave one possible outcome out of the several ways we know it could go, and didn't clarify that you were only giving them the worst case scenario. Fair enough to point out that's one way it could go, but at least make it clear if you're only giving a partial answer.

I think it's already clear enough, (just read all the related posts in the thread).

Edited March 23 by LordOrion