What did I think of Kiowa? It needs to improve in some areas!

[Mohamengina]

Enjoying it generally but the VR performance is even worse than the Apache which used to be the worst performing module until now.

[YoYo]

Just for good morning and fun ;):

[markturner1960]

I have been doing some of the training missions and provided missions and have a big gripe......NO VOICEOVERS!!!! Just on screen text......Whats that all about? With many many community made missions having really great immersion adding voiceovers and every new model released apart from this with voiced training missions, I am really surprised Polychop have not done this.....and still have the front to charge $70.......

I love flying the Kiowa, and it has many good points.......but given the sound and texture issues already discussed, I think its overpriced and had I tried before I purchased, I would likely NOT have done so at this price point.

Polychop, please dont take the piss with us and sort the issues in a future patch sometime soon.........

[monkie]

I was very skeptical of the OH58, thought it would not really offer much more than we already have with the AH64 or other Helos but I've found I really enjoy working with the sensors and searching for targets, setting up Target Points, etc. I didn't expect the systems to be modeled so far in depth, in reality I think there is a point where the developers dive so deep that most of the effort is wasted on details most of us will never really use ie "Offsets" etc. Poly has done a deep dive and I can appreciate it in this module.

As for the textures, I have no issues with them, they look good enough for me but I'm old school, I prefer a good flight model over how many pixels a texture contains. 

Flight model, I think Poly went with the more stable side of the equation and I think that is a good choice.  The stability opens up helicopters to a large audience that might be frustrated because they don't own the big end hardware or long throws that allow for the fine inputs that helicopters demand. I'm all for getting more people interested and flying the helicopters in DCS. 

I might have been drinking when I decided to buy the OH58 but I have no regrets so far other than the AI autopilot and it's need for too many keybinds that hopefully will be worked with in the future.

Edited June 8, 2024 by monkie

[freehand]

I have just see caps quick look at the Kiowa I am more than happy to part with my money.

[LuseKofte]

This chopper is like an onion. Many many layers 

Love it

Edited June 8, 2024 by LuseKofte

[Slippa]

2 hours ago, LuseKofte said:

This chopper is like an onion.

Making some peoples eyes water too.

[AKA_Clutter]

14 hours ago, GrEaSeLiTeNiN said:

My thoughts too. I got it yesterday and well true enough it doesn’t match up with the textures in other modules. There will always be two camps, those that aren’t that bothered with visuals and those who are more discerning with their purchases. Both can agree to disagree. My take is that it is a matter of better clarity and sales integrity. 

 

I agree that there will be two (or multiple) camps around the visuals, but I disagree that those that are concerned/ have complained here are more "discerning".  You just value it differently than I do.  That doesn't equate to one camp being more discerning than the other.

I fly in VR and have chosen lower graphics and immersion over higher graphics.  And although I love how they look on the flat screen at 1440p, it's the simulation aspects and immersion that bring me back,and have since Flanker 1.5.  Before that it was Microprose Gunship!

Now my 2.5 cents worth (corrected for inflation).

When I first flew it I was a little disappointed.  It flew easier that I thought it should. I fly DCS and other flight simulations to simulate flying the real thing.  The flight model and systems are the most important thing to me.

Then I reflected on the fact that at least two RL Kiowa pilots (Casmo and Burundas (spelling??)) have endorsed the flight model.  Second thought was that since I've been waiting for this module for 3 years(?), my expectations were probably too high.

Now that I've spent some time in her, I like it.  It has a lot of promise.  I think it's also important to remember it won't fight like an Apache or run like a LOACH, but it has its place.

My two main areas of concern are the sounds (being worked on) and the actual state of the damage model.  Both are important to immersion imho.

Edited June 8, 2024 by AKA_Clutter

[cthulhu68]

5 hours ago, monkie said:

I was very skeptical of the OH58, thought it would not really offer much more than we already have with the AH64 or other Helos ...

As for the textures, I have no issues with them, they look good enough for me but I'm old school, I prefer a good flight model over how many pixels a texture contains. 

Flight model, I think Poly went with the more stable side of the equation and I think that is a good choice...

I might have been drinking when I decided to buy the OH58 but I have no regrets so far...

 

I agree with all of this (especially the drinking when deciding to purchase part ). First impression is that its easy to pick up and fun to fly . Sounds and textures could be better but not so bad I regret buying. Does feel like a little laggy. Hopefully some optimization can help with framerates. 

Sure it needs to improve in some areas but IMO Polychop did a great job and delivered something i've been wanting to see in DCS for a long time.

[0414 Wee Neal]

Peoples perspectives are so different.  I took my wife for dinner in local pub last night, starter and main course each and 2 bevvies; cost £60 ($76).  Thats was 3 hours!  Just saying

 

[Rogue Trooper]

The OH-58D is very nice indeed.

Easy to fly with SCAS and a very nice FM without SCAS, Cockpit looks good and we have pilot figures from the get go.... perfect. The external model quality I do not notice with my current VR headset. A great module that is pretty much all there on release and I am sure it will get lots of tuning and upgrades in the near future.

 

[Poptart]

1 hour ago, AKA_Clutter said:

When I first flew it I was a little disappointed.  It flew easier that I thought it should.

This is much closer to how a real helicopter should feel with stability augmentation. The Apache is extremely tail happy with SCAS on. 

[LuseKofte]

People fly it with automatic help and complain it is too easy or not fly like a real chopper when out of the envelope the automated help can actually be at help.  
switch off the automatic if you going to fly it like a clown. I think areas of this community is more bugged than any module is. Can I refund it or get a new? 

[jubuttib]

7 hours ago, 0414 Wee Neal said:

Peoples perspectives are so different.  I took my wife for dinner in local pub last night, starter and main course each and 2 bevvies; cost £60 ($76).  Thats was 3 hours!  Just saying

Yeah nah, that's unthinkable for me.

[pii]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:59 PM, ThorBrasil said:

Understand! The Kiowa, with these problems I mentioned, makes it already outdated graphically. If this weren't a problem, ED wouldn't be updating all of its modules to current standards. Even the BO-105 had to be remade because of this. The same thing happened to the A-1H from Crosstail Studios. In the future, new modules will be released and, whether we like it or not, the graphics will be a weight on the scale. There's also the issue of AI, which I won't even comment on because everything has already been said in the other topics. I'm sure this can all be fixed, but what really bothered me was that this aircraft didn't deserve the full price. It's simply early access masquerading as "full".

I never noticed. I've been too busy flying it around and enjoying it.

[pii]

7 hours ago, Poptart said:

This is much closer to how a real helicopter should feel with stability augmentation. The Apache is extremely tail happy with SCAS on. 

It flies the way  I feel a helo should but I'm no pilot nor have I ever been in a Helo. To me, it feels like the Ka-50 Whoes FM I also loved.

Edited June 9, 2024 by pii

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I agree that there will be two (or multiple) camps around the visuals, but I disagree that those that are concerned/ have complained here are more "discerning".  You just value it differently than I do.  That doesn't equate to one camp being more discerning than the other.

I fly in VR and have chosen lower graphics and immersion over higher graphics.  And although I love how they look on the flat screen at 1440p, it's the simulation aspects and immersion that bring me back,and have since Flanker 1.5.  Before that it was Microprose Gunship!
Now my 2.5 cents worth (corrected for inflation).

When I first flew it I was a little disappointed.  It flew easier that I thought it should. I fly DCS and other flight simulations to simulate flying the real thing.  The flight model and systems are the most important thing to me.

Then I reflected on the fact that at least two RL Kiowa pilots (Casmo and Burundas (spelling??)) have endorsed the flight model.  Second thought was that since I've been waiting for this module for 3 years(?), my expectations were probably too high.

Now that I've spent some time in her, I like it.  It has a lot of promise.  I think it's also important to remember it won't fight like an Apache or run like a LOACH, but it has its place.

My two main areas of concern are the sounds (being worked on) and the actual state of the damage model.  Both are important to immersion imho.

It shouldn’t be about who values what more but a clearer standard and consistency on what constitutes an EA or non EA so we don’t have debates like this. When judging a module, all things come into play, including textures, sounds, animations, because these aspects have been shown to us to be an integral part of module development and are of better quality in several modules out of EA or even in EA.

[jye0622]

Personally, I think the KW release is in great shape. Because if it was at EA, it would probably only have 50 machine guns and M151 rockets right now, and would have to wait a while for an update to get the AGM-114K, and the NAV would probably have no pre-point during EA, and the MMS would have no point track and have to wait for an update.
NAV may not have pre-point , and MMS may not have point track and have to wait for update.
Once KW was released, almost all the features were complete, I had all the weapon systems to play with right away, no more waiting, and the AI features were very easy , making it fun for single players.Other than that, it's just a matter of getting the module closer and closer to perfection with subsequent updates.

I've always felt that the purpose of playing pc games is to make myself happy.

 

[LuseKofte]

Despite the hysteria. Which by the way erupted before anyone even been into this module. This is a complete module. And the poly’s are nice and dandy. Not competing with the best but in our chopper hangar it is sufficient and no worse than most.  I flown this for many hours, I can operate both seats and all weapons. And still there is a lot to learn about it. 
Flying it as a civil chopper or an armed Huey with less fuel and without scat is also fun. 
it is just what I needed. I was a bit bored with the hind right now. 
Hoping to understand all the capabilities during this week and change the button assignments the way I want it. And get muzzle memory on it

[RealDCSpilot]

Everytime i read "but it's fun" in here i get the old Gazelle FM vibes. With the old FM it flew like ass and people claimed "but it's so fun to fly". It took 7 years to be fixed! Fun is something i actually expect from every module i'm interested in. It's out of the question, why bring it up here. Overall quality of a product is what concerns me as a customer (and DCS module collector). And your faith as a DCS customer is really tested these days. So now we have the OH-58D, released without EA and without release day cut-off price. There was a lot of bragging about that it won't be an early access product. What we got is still an EA product, with stuff that doesn't work right or is in substandard condition and needs to be fixed, like the usual DCS stuff. No big difference to an EA release. I found a lot of bugs within the first hours myself. What did the testers do? The amount of money is also quite high for the given complexity of the module. We just had the release of the F-4E, 100 times more complex module... Put that into perspective.

[ThorBrasil]

4 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Everytime i read "but it's fun" in here i get the old Gazelle FM vibes. With the old FM it flew like ass and people claimed "but it's so fun to fly". It took 7 years to be fixed! Fun is something i actually expect from every module i'm interested in. It's out of the question, why bring it up here. Overall quality of a product is what concerns me as a customer (and DCS module collector). And your faith as a DCS customer is really tested these days. So now we have the OH-58D, released without EA and without release day cut-off price. There was a lot of bragging about that it won't be an early access product. What we got is still an EA product, with stuff that doesn't work right or is in substandard condition and needs to be fixed, like the usual DCS stuff. No big difference to an EA release. I found a lot of bugs within the first hours myself. What did the testers do? The amount of money is also quite high for the given complexity of the module. We just had the release of the F-4E, 100 times more complex module... Put that into perspective.

I didn't try to get a refund because I'm a fan of the Bell 206. I used to fly it in Flight Simulator with the Dodosim 206 module, which was all the rage at the time. The Kiowa was built on top of a Bell 206, which is why I really wanted the Kiowa. It took about 6 years to be released, and the unbelievable thing is that in all that time the entire module came out in this condition and still at full price. Anyway, all I know is that I'll stay away from Polychop's next releases, and a friend of mine decided not to buy it because of what happened with the Gazelle. I hope that Polychop will fix all the problems and that it will receive a decent 3D model and high-resolution textures. It's like you said. The F-4E came out at a much lower price and with a quality and features that can't even be compared, because the Kiowa would be crushed.

Yesterday I flew it for about 4 hours and it urgently needs an optimization. When flying low you lose so much FPS that the DCS ends up crashing. I don't know if it's a memory leak or something that's consuming too many computer resources. Let's wait and see what happens in the future.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

6 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Everytime i read "but it's fun" in here i get the old Gazelle FM vibes. With the old FM it flew like ass and people claimed "but it's so fun to fly".

Depends on who it was who was saying it. Even if you have a purely academic understanding of helicopter aerodynamics that’s not grounded in practical experience, it was extremely obvious the old Gazelle behaved nothing like a helicopter.

I had people in my squadron who loved it and really disliked the new version, but the old Gazelle was the only “helicopter” they ever tried in DCS so that’s why they liked it: it was familiar since it flew like a fixed-wing aircraft

 

I found the sound really great but I absolutely hated the way it flew.

And I am one of those people I mentioned earlier, with only a strictly academic knowledge of aerodynamics without RL experience…

[BSS_Sniper]

On 6/5/2024 at 12:50 PM, Braunn said:

Yeah, I'm not paying $70 for that. 

Cool story bro

It’s one of the best imo. I fly irl and take notice when they model things down to the circuit breakers. That matters to me. The one and only thing that could be done is to update the cockpit textures, they’re a little behind but not bad imo. 

[Braunn]

1 hour ago, BSS_Sniper said:

Cool story bro

It’s one of the best imo. I fly irl and take notice when they model things down to the circuit breakers. That matters to me. The one and only thing that could be done is to update the cockpit textures, they’re a little behind but not bad imo. 

Cool story bro. 

[Silvester.E]

Love the module!