Redundant Modules

[Punkmonkey22]

As the modules released for DCS keep growing, and increasing the library of flyable aircraft, I am noticing more and more that we have duplicates of aircraft in the game.

Are there any plans to remove the AI versions of aircraft that have a paid module included? This is a problem that is only going to grow as the Chinook, Tornado, C-130 for example get released.

We currently have the following with one old core game and one new hi-fidelity version in the mission editor;

F-5, F-14A, F-15E, OH-58, F-16C, F-4E, F/A-18C, Mirage-2000, AH-64

 

For a couple of these there may be block differences, but I doubt any users are choosing low-poly over the new versions in missions.

[Rudel_chw]

2 minutes ago, Punkmonkey22 said:

Are there any plans to remove the AI versions of aircraft that have a paid module included?

 

I really hope not, as every mission that I've edited in the past, that employs these assets, would need to be updated ... and in some cases I have chosen low-poly for performance reasons, as background aircrafts don't really need more.

[Czar66]

There are ordinance capabilities difference between some of these 'low poly' (they are just old really) and the paid modules counterparts, as ofc, they are from different blocks.

Mirage 2000-5 is a different mirage than what we have as flyable. It can carry Mica missiles and 4x of them.


F-15E can carry Mavericks. The 15E module wasn't updated to carry them yet.

F-4 and F-14, although we have new models, they are a heavy bunch. Sure the old models could use a facelift in lines of the F-15E AI quality (circa A-10C release?). The old tomcat models are buggy too, being able to carry 6 missiles in the tunnel (4x Phoenixes and 2x Sparrows) making a 8x radar missile carrier as it never was.

Wild...

Edited June 10, 2024 by Czar66

[Silver_Dragon]

ED dont go to remove AI units, the only option has update them with has necesary to some campings, training, etc, outside from all 3rd content, and ED dont go to suppresed old modela by 3rd Party models, on fact, the actual 3rd Party content has outside from Bazzar and other DCS Main directories.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk
 

Edited June 11, 2024 by Silver_Dragon

[draconus]

18 hours ago, Punkmonkey22 said:

As the modules released for DCS keep growing, and increasing the library of flyable aircraft, I am noticing more and more that we have duplicates of aircraft in the game.

[Punkmonkey22]

6 hours ago, draconus said:

Thanks, I did do a search but I guess I used the wrong keywords.

I take it back about people choosing to use them, I honestly never considered the performance aspect as I personally don't enjoy using the older models.

Mods feel free to lock this/delete if needed. I stand corrected.

[Kang]

The issue about performance is sadly also a testament to how especially some recent modules have terrible LODs.

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Sorry but I cannot see the problem, those low poly models are ideal for mission creation, specially when you have to populate airbases or carriers. I hope they will never get removed, just updated.

[draconus]

Just now, AKULA_OPTIMUS said:

I hope they will never get removed, just updated.

The thing is they already got updated, but the old ones are still kept.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, the old Carl Vinson got removed, which actually broke at least one campaign (not that it wasn't broken before due to LOD issues with the model). I agree that lower poly models are quite useful for AI, but at the same time, many of the old models don't look particularly good. Ideally, the old AI models would be replaced by new ones, for example made from lower LODs of the high poly player/wingman models.

[Exorcet]

I don't mind keeping the old models, especially if removing them can cause problems. In the cases where they have unique capability, they absolutely should not be removed (M2005, F-16) I wonder how hard it would be to code an option to use the old model once a unit is updated. It could be useful on some machines and in cases where you won't really see the unit in the mission.

[draconus]

Techincally this could be done by removing the old models and if the mission calls for the old one DCS should replace it with the new model. Cases like 2000-5 or F-16A should be kept as they are different variants, not available within new models. If the old unit had some special actions or bahaved better it should be moved to the new unit. Ex. i once tested Tomcat and the old F-14A was the only one that could fire multiple Phoenixes in TWS. Performance should not be a problem whenever the units are far away so the only trouble situation is packed carrier or busy airbase - optimisation needed or LOD option in ME? Sounds like some work to do and it's probably why we still have what we have.

[Ramius007]

Problem with some of those old modules for mission creation purpose is that they sometimes not work, if you try to BVR AI in old f-4 vs HB F-4 you notice huge diffrence with same ordenance

[Northstar98]

I understand comments about performance, though surely that's a problem that should be solved anyway.

While I'm absolutely in favour of keeping different variants as separate entries, I'm a lot less onboard with having essentially duplicated entries for aircraft we already have, where were it not for performance, would largely just be listing redundant entries, cluttering up the list.

The units should still be present in the background, so as to not break existing missions, perhaps an idea similar to Exocet's is the best one - i.e. remove duplicated, redundant entries from the unit list, but include the option to switch models for AI aircraft. Something along the same lines could work for FC2024, which will include the exact same aircraft that already exist, just in a simplified form.

[upyr1]

I see the arguments in keeping the old models to avoid breaking older missions. I can see two ways to avoid breaking older missions by deprecating the old models. The first would be to turn them into different blocks, for example the current F-4E could be treated as a Phantom 2K such as the Ice or Terminator and ED goes through and adds weapons like the AMRAAM and HARM. Another method would be to include some sort of built-in utility which replaces the deprecated model.