The Rookie Thread

[Yurgon]

Don't you guys think the thread should be closed? I used to contribute to it quite a lot back in the day but I started seeing it as counterproductive. Forums are inherently inferior to Q&A sites (e.g. askbot based sites), but such forum threads move forums another level down in terms of usefulness.

 

Such a dump-thread serves three purposes:

1. It offers an easy way out of making an effort and using the forum search function before asking a question.

2. It makes answers to question obscure, buried in tons of posts of various subjects, i.e. makes knowledge harder to find for any future newcommer.

3. It diverts content from the properly titled and located threads to this thread.

 

Call me an eccentric but neither of those is desirable.

 

You do raise several good points there. Yet I don't think this thread should be closed -- and it's not because I disagree with any of your points, I don't. But I think your approach is possibly too idealistic. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need this thread. But as it is, I'd rather have newcomers post newcomer's questions here and get a quick answer than having them start yet another "Help needed urgently!" thread, and possibly even in the wrong place.

 

When it comes to the bibliographical and/or reference value of the Rookie Thread (and similar threads in other sub-forums), their value is indeed fairly limited because good answers are buried in pages and pages of stuff. But I think that simple questions will get asked over and over again anyways.

 

Another aspect is that the forum's search function by default seems to search only posts that are no older than 6 months. With modules like Ka-50 and A-10C, most beginner's questions will have been answered longer ago.

 

Like I said, in a perfect world every newcomer would go to the advanced search and figure out how to find an answer, but since our world is not perfect, I think this thread is a good place for people to ask simple questions without fearing potential discouragement for opening a new thread when a quick search came up empty.

 

Also, with Rookie question in one place, mods have less work cleaning things up and merging threads.

 

In essence, my vote would be to leave this thread in place because I think it does a pretty good job of what it's supposed to do, and smart newcomers will always open new threads for new questions anyways.

[arkroyale048]

In the A-10C... If you designate a spot into a SPI, and then pull some wild maneuvers (i.e. evading missiles, AAA). Your SPI would shift a little bit; specially if you did a Gimbal Roll.. In the A-10 it is possible to designate that SPI as a markpoint and then have the TGP slew itself into that markpoint after pulling off some wild maneuvers.

 

Does the Shkval have a similar function ? I already know about putting marks on the map using the panel on the upper left. Is there a way for me to reslew the shkval onto the same spot, specially if I shifted position (and thereby facing the shkval temporarily away from the target), instead of me manually slewing it back according to the map ?

[TurboHog]

In the A-10C... If you designate a spot into a SPI, and then pull some wild maneuvers (i.e. evading missiles, AAA). Your SPI would shift a little bit; specially if you did a Gimbal Roll.. In the A-10 it is possible to designate that SPI as a markpoint and then have the TGP slew itself into that markpoint after pulling off some wild maneuvers.

 

Does the Shkval have a similar function ? I already know about putting marks on the map using the panel on the upper left. Is there a way for me to reslew the shkval onto the same spot, specially if I shifted position (and thereby facing the shkval temporarily away from the target), instead of me manually slewing it back according to the map ?

 

Create a Datalink, select it and select DL Ingress. Next time you uncage your skhval it will slew to the designated target.

 

Check the manual for information on the datalink system.

[arkroyale048]

Thanks a lot that helps a lot with reconnaissance.

 

 

Been trying to attempt the said maneuver with mixed results.... I'll let you know if I'm having any difficulties.

 

On another note;

with regards to the Vikhrs.

 

I just flew a multiplayer mission where I need to neutralize enemy units on an enemy airfield.

 

My Vikhrs seem to want to veer off target about 2 to 3 kliks short of the target (was watching the F6 view of the missile).

 

I am well within launch parameters of the Vikhr. 5-6 Km distance, stable hover, laser is on, waited for the launch cue, etc.

 

Is there anything I'm doing wrong ?

 

 

After a few more trial and error on this issue. I found out that it is indeed the laser being burned out. It was mentioned that an indicator of a burned out laser would be the countdown timer when you activate it. When it starts at 1 second counting down to 0. You know you have a burned out laser. Afterwards, upon firing a Vikhr. It would veer wildly a few kliks off the target. Same scenario as before.

 

 

Question for me now is. How does one take care in order to prevent a burned out laser ? I tried slowing down my vikhr shots. Even making sure that I let every countdown reach 0 before firing. I also shut down the laser switch while in transit to and fro the target area. Even shutting it off whenever I just shift firing positions. It seems that inevitably my laser would burn out.

 

Is there also, an indicator of what might be the current temperature of my laser ? As well as the limit before I should pause and let it cool down ?

[JuggernautOfWar]

Hello!

 

Brand new to DCS World and Black Shark 2. I just got a new X52 Pro and Black Shark 2. Tried the training in game and it's safe to say I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Unfortunately I have a hard time learning complex systems by just watching somebody else operate them (training videos), instead I need to interact with them myself while being guided.

 

I'd love to start small and work my way up, but it seems to even start up and/or take off there are many challenges to newbies such as myself. Additionally I do not have my X52 Pro set up with any profiles since I (lack systems and KA50 knowledge) have no idea what keyboard commands to map to which joystick buttons.

 

TLDR: I have no idea what I'm doing and would like some advice. Thanks! I look forward to spending hundreds of hours learning to fly and having a blast!

Edited April 14, 2014 by JuggernautOfWar

[Irregular programming]

Hey, welcome.

 

In the folder where you installed BS2 there is a Doc folder, in there is a pdf with tips for keybinding your X52 (why I don't have a clue, but it's there)

 

(maybe the game auto maps the X52 for you, DCS: A10 auto maps the warthog so you don't have to do any key bindings at all)?

 

Thanks a lot that helps a lot with reconnaissance.

 

Question for me now is. How does one take care in order to prevent a burned out laser ? I tried slowing down my vikhr shots. Even making sure that I let every countdown reach 0 before firing. I also shut down the laser switch while in transit to and fro the target area. Even shutting it off whenever I just shift firing positions. It seems that inevitably my laser would burn out.

 

Is there also, an indicator of what might be the current temperature of my laser ? As well as the limit before I should pause and let it cool down ?

 

There is no indicator, there is a best practice someplace possibly in the manual but I just can't find it right now. However you should never run out of laser during normal use, you can use it to fire all your vikhirs and still have lots of uses left.

 

Basically how it works is that when you soft lock the ground it will fire for three seconds, a vehicle or a target it will fire for eight seconds if you fire a vikhir it will fire for either as long as the vikhir takes to reach its target or thirty seconds (whichever is less).

 

I believe the rule is that you can safely use it for 16 vikhirs before cool down, so that's 8 + 30 * 16 seconds worth of firing. To cool down the laser you need to wait 30 minutes, I think that if you do not wait for 30 min it will reset so if you waited 25 min and fired again it wouldn't count. Even here this rule gives you a lot of leeway, I would not be surprised if you can't fire off at least two full loads of vihkirs and still have the laser working fine.

 

I've never burned it during a mission after I knew that it actually could burn out. :lol:

 

Just don't go around and mark everything you see and you'll be fine.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Irregular programming

[arkroyale048]

Hi Jugg,

 

There are interactive training missions available on this site. They cover the everything from startup, to systems to weapons employment.

 

As for the joystick profile. I do own and use an X-52 myself. So I can lend a hand with that if you'd like.

 

 

 

@IrregularProgramming

 

That's a bummer. As a shark pilot, I actually enjoy more doing reconnaissance than going in there guns blazing. I like the cautious and skillful approach. Hence the use of marking things all over the place. The problem is, that when I decide that recon is over and it's time to let loose. That's when I get a burnt out laser.

 

 

However I might have misrepresented the scenario a bit. I DO NOT get that burnt laser on the first sortie. Rather it's usually on the 3rd one. Head out-RTB, Head out-RTB then Head out-RTB. Once my laser was burned out; I headed back and when through a repair sequence. The first two RTB's I just rearmed and refueled without shutting down.

 

Now... from the reading that I've done so far. I get the impression that the Ka-50's laser is a finite system. The issue isn't so much about reaching the redline temperature limit, but rather using up the gas and/or coolant used for the laser. In that case, usage of the Shkval's laser should be treated as if it also runs on fuel. Something that eventually runs out.

[Irregular programming]

Hi Jugg,

 

There are interactive training missions available on this site. They cover the everything from startup, to systems to weapons employment.

 

As for the joystick profile. I do own and use an X-52 myself. So I can lend a hand with that if you'd like.

 

 

 

@IrregularProgramming

 

That's a bummer. As a shark pilot, I actually enjoy more doing reconnaissance than going in there guns blazing. I like the cautious and skillful approach. Hence the use of marking things all over the place. The problem is, that when I decide that recon is over and it's time to let loose. That's when I get a burnt out laser.

 

 

However I might have misrepresented the scenario a bit. I DO NOT get that burnt laser on the first sortie. Rather it's usually on the 3rd one. Head out-RTB, Head out-RTB then Head out-RTB. Once my laser was burned out; I headed back and when through a repair sequence. The first two RTB's I just rearmed and refueled without shutting down.

 

Now... from the reading that I've done so far. I get the impression that the Ka-50's laser is a finite system. The issue isn't so much about reaching the redline temperature limit, but rather using up the gas and/or coolant used for the laser. In that case, usage of the Shkval's laser should be treated as if it also runs on fuel. Something that eventually runs out.

 

I found it in the manual, the range finder is good for.

 

16 cycles of 10 seconds with 5 sec interval between the cycles.

 

With a minimum time interval between series 30 minutes.

 

If you follow that you can use your laser indefinitely it's not finite (in game). But I think it can deal take a lot more than that before it stops working.

[arkroyale048]

That may be so.... but missions usually don't leave much room for breathing... You have no choice but to engage and engage continuously.

[Yurgon]

TLDR: I have no idea what I'm doing and would like some advice. Thanks! I look forward to spending hundreds of hours learning to fly and having a blast!

 

These are the training missions that arkroyale048 mentioned: KA-50 Black Shark 2 Training missions

 

They should give you a solid overview of the systems and get you going. :thumbup:

[JuggernautOfWar]

Hi Jugg,

 

There are interactive training missions available on this site. They cover the everything from startup, to systems to weapons employment.

 

As for the joystick profile. I do own and use an X-52 myself. So I can lend a hand with that if you'd like.

These are the training missions that arkroyale048 mentioned: KA-50 Black Shark 2 Training missions

 

They should give you a solid overview of the systems and get you going.

Thanks a bunch! I'll check these out and see if I can start learning hands-on.

 

First though I need to figure out how to properly configure my X52 Pro for the Black Shark. I guess I'll look through the KA-50 documentation before I do anything else.

Edited April 14, 2014 by JuggernautOfWar

[Fishbreath]

I'd love to start small and work my way up, but it seems to even start up and/or take off there are many challenges to newbies such as myself. Additionally I do not have my X52 Pro set up with any profiles since I (lack systems and KA50 knowledge) have no idea what keyboard commands to map to which joystick buttons.

 

The link to the Steam guide in my signature has a list of functions I use most commonly, which is a good start for keybinding.

[JuggernautOfWar]

Okay great thanks. I upvoted it and added it to my favorites.

 

I think more than anything I just need help creating profiles for my HOTAS system. I don't know where to start with assigning keyboard commands to joystick buttons. For example, what key do I assign trim to, and what joystick button do I assign it to?

 

I don't know why I'm having such a hard time wrapping my head around this.

[Fishbreath]

There are four principles I try to follow, in order of importance:

 

1) Put the most commonly used functions on the easiest buttons to hit.

2) Put related controls together.

3) Make control layouts for similar simulated aircraft similar.

4) Follow the control layout of the actual aircraft.

 

For instance, I put the trimmer on the pinky button on my joystick, because it's easy to hit and very frequently used. My Shkval slew is on one of my joystick hats, and my other Shkval controls are on another hat on the throttle.

[JuggernautOfWar]

Okay so to create a new profile I need to look in game to see which keys are mapped to what commands, then map those keys to the buttons for the X52 Pro? For example 1st trigger = space = fire cannons?

[arkroyale048]

I can share with you my X-52 profile. I'll put my updated one. As soon as I create the visuals for it.

 

**DISCLAIMER**

 

This profile is a little obsolete, as since then I've added more functions on the spare buttons as and when I see fit.

 

P.S.

 

The pinky switch below the trigger is set as a modifier. So before anything else, please set that accordingly.

Edited April 15, 2014 by arkroyale048

[Bucic]

Like I said, in a perfect world every newcomer would go to the advanced search and figure out how to find an answer, but since our world is not perfect, I think this thread is a good place for people to ask simple questions without fearing potential discouragement for opening a new thread when a quick search came up empty.

A very important aspect. Some intermediate and advanced users do discourage people asking questions in separate threads. Well, if the author of the question did use the search function prior to posting not only he has a good reason to start a new thread. He also provides an invaluable feedback on other forum content possibly containing the answer to his question, namely the answer:

a) was left in the wrong forum section

b) the topic has been named improperly

c) the post/topic containing the answear used improper definitions (colloquialisms or outright wrong wording)

 

IMO if users post questions in separate topics the chances to correct the said previous mistakes are greatly increased. On top of the obvious advantage of making the knowledge discoverable and reusable.

 

Regarding a) and b). Forum section and topic name is the most useful information when searching for answears and yet there are plenty of topics named 'Got a problem here!'.

 

As a final word. You said that newcomers would use the search function 'only in a perfect world'. I know it may sound harsh but it simply can't be the other way when we accomodate cutting corners.

 

PS. that X-52 profile above my post. Good contribution. What do you think, what are the chances anyone will find it in 2 months from now?

[Irregular programming]

That may be so.... but missions usually don't leave much room for breathing... You have no choice but to engage and engage continuously.

 

If you have time to mark all your targets, and return to base three times I do think you also have time to let the laser cool down. :smilewink:

[arkroyale048]

:P

 

not when the tanks are already rolling in.... b'sides... one has to RTB when one is winchester... No point hanging around there would you ? :)

 

30 minutes is a long time to cool down the laser.

[Yurgon]

A very important aspect. Some intermediate and advanced users do discourage people asking questions in separate threads.

 

They do? I don't think I remember such a thing happening; that obviously makes no sense at all.

 

IMO if users post questions in separate topics the chances to correct the said previous mistakes are greatly increased. On top of the obvious advantage of making the knowledge discoverable and reusable.

 

I absolutely agree.

 

Regarding a) and b). Forum section and topic name is the most useful information when searching for answears and yet there are plenty of topics named 'Got a problem here!'.

 

See? Those are exactly the posts that would best fit right here in the Rookie Thread. :smartass:

 

I don't get why it seems so incredibly difficult for some people to post in the right section and, more important, find a suitable title. It doesn't need to be 100% accurate, but the examples you just gave are so terribly common.

 

Seeing as these posts will never be found by searching the title, I'd say it doesn't make a difference if they come up as first post in a badly titled thread or as a random post in the Rookie Thread.

 

But if someone feels bored and wants to read stuff about the Black Shark, the Rookie Thread does hold a decent amount of valuable information (recursion alert: which would be much easier to find if it was separated into in well labeled, individual threads, I know).

 

As a final word. You said that newcomers would use the search function 'only in a perfect world'. I know it may sound harsh but it simply can't be the other way when we accomodate cutting corners.

 

Nope. I said in a perfect world they would figure out how to make best use of the (advanced) search. I regularly stumble across the fact that the advanced search by default limits itself to the last 6 months.

 

The search function in this forum is pretty decent IMO, but PHPBB for example is just terrible. In one case, I search the forum of a specific software for "Error #0" which that software had just spat out. The forum search came up empty because the term "Error" was excluded for being too common and "#0" was excluded for being too short.

 

The search on the ED forum is not that bad, but it still sometimes dismisses search terms, and the order of search results could be better sometimes. I'll follow this up if I find another example; I don't have one off the top of my head right now.

 

So, in short, the search isn't perfect, and if someone fails to find the answer to a rookie question I think it's okay to post it to the Rookie Thread.

 

I also think that those who don't find the answer to a rookie question are more likely to label new threads something like "Newbie question" or "Help needed". I would indeed prefer to offer these people a shortcut, since they're going to ask anyways.

 

PS. that X-52 profile above my post. Good contribution. What do you think, what are the chances anyone will find it in 2 months from now?

 

Near zero. It's obviously the poster's choice not to post it to the Input and Output section, or maybe he wanted to get some feedback first, dunno.

 

I'd just like to reiterate that I generally agree with your points about separating threads, but I disagree that this thread should be closed.

[arkroyale048]

Just a curious question:

 

Is there any way I can deliberately 'induce' the Shkval into showing the test image most if not all the time ?

 

Or better still, a mod that let's you change what the Shkval looks like when it's caged.

[Bucic]

They do? I don't think I remember such a thing happening; that obviously makes no sense at all.

Yup, I've seen it few times. A guy posting approprietly titled topic with a clearly laid out problem, using proper definitions, getting links to mess-topics in return. It's not common, by no means. We're talking few times spread over a decade of my membership :)

 

 

Seeing as these posts will never be found by searching the title, I'd say it doesn't make a difference if they come up as first post in a badly titled thread or as a random post in the Rookie Thread.

*** The difference is simple to explain. A mistitled topic requires 30 seconds work of a moderator. Rookie Thread post will remain in the pile no matter what.

 

 

I regularly stumble across the fact that the advanced search by default limits itself to the last 6 months.

Really? That would be bad, especially for BS-related searches.

Also, too bad search result links are not persistent, with all the filter settings etc.

 

I also think that those who don't find the answer to a rookie question are more likely to label new threads something like "Newbie question" or "Help needed". I would indeed prefer to offer these people a shortcut, since they're going to ask anyways.

Please see ***

Additionally, with the Rookie Thread at hand they >will< go out producing "Hey, help!" topics anyway. Again, my idea is to get a rookie on-track right of the bat. That's why I've created the Rookie pilots - Quick Intro thread. A bunch of guidelines on how to get started and, most importlantly, where to look for information... locked against posting.

 

I'd just like to reiterate that I generally agree with your points about separating threads, but I disagree that this thread should be closed.

This was my impression. OK, it was a pleasure discussing the subject with you. May the DCS community prosper! :D

 

 

Just a curious question:

 

Is there any way I can deliberately 'induce' the Shkval into showing the test image most if not all the time ?

 

Or better still, a mod that let's you change what the Shkval looks like when it's caged.

http://forums.eagle.ru/search.php

[search titles only]

shkval mod

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/99555/

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bucic

[guitarxe]

What was "Central Position Trimmer Mode" does in the options, again? I forget...

[Bucic]

What was "Central Position Trimmer Mode" does in the options, again? I forget...

Isn't it explained in the GUI manual?

[Fishbreath]

What was "Central Position Trimmer Mode" does in the options, again? I forget...

 

Checked: after you release the trimmer, controls are locked until you return your controls to center.

Unchecked: after you release the trimmer, controls are locked for one second.