Northern Israel / Southern Lebanon detail removed

[rob10]

2 hours ago, SignorMagnifico said:

I’m starting to see the picture that it was Ugra who demanded OnReTech to remove parts of the Sinai map people already paid for. Sorry, Ugra, but you don’t just get to change your mind after a year. BOTH of these maps are great. Please get your heads out of the sand and listen to ED’s customers. This really is not the time for third parties to be fighting with each other.

Just to point out that NineLine has clarified that it was SPECULATION on his behalf that this was the reason for removal.  So don't use that post in your consideration of why.

If it was Urga, then a pox on them along with ORT and Urga should announce that fact it they weren't involved because they're getting mud on their reputation by default currently.

Since ORT didn't name or imply who the 3rd party was, it's possible (as was suggested by another poster) that this is a licensing issue with ORT and wherever they got their base data from.

Either way doesn't matter because ORT is deservedly taking a hit for the way they've handled this, but I'm holding off judgement on Urga until we know the details.

[Kappa-131st]

Likewise, if Ugra Media does not reverse its decision IMMEDIATELY, I will no longer buy anything from them or encourage anyone in my squadron to do so.

[LizardKingYB]

This year is crazy. No patch without scandals...

[Texac]

3 hours ago, gnomechild said:

Does this game feel like a bad joke to anyone else at times?

Absolutely.

I remember the times from 2015 where long development times, bugs or incomplete features, etc. were all we had to deal with, the usual stuff.

But nothing I would lose my mind or trust over in a product/company since thats the side effect of a niche and complicated game genre with relatively small but dedicated teams behind it.

I made my last purchase in 2023 for the F-15E by Razbam. There are a lot of really well made and exceptional modules or maps (even in Early Access) for DCS that you can still fly perfectly fine, shoot stuff and have fun with.

But after watching all these ridiculous ****shows this year, including this new one, I just don't see myself spending any more cent into something that has Eagle Dynamics, DCS World or Early Access written on it.

Edited August 10, 2024 by Texac

[GUCCI]

18 minutes ago, Blaine Stars said:

Guys, look at the changelog. It looks like it was a mistake, not intentional.

Look at these two improvements, they are related to Israel. Why on earth would they delete something they improved? It doesn't make sense. It seems to me that they made a mistake in one area, it's the intern's fault.

*Added 2 types of acacia bushes for the south of Israel
*Improved trees on mountains in Israel

Hmm.. so much of a mistake that they admitted to it in their own post here, a few pages back? Not a mistake. They tried to be slick and not say a word thinking we wouldn’t notice, now that the cat is out of the bag, both the paying customers and ED are just as dumbfounded. This kind of thing doesn’t happen by mistake, I can assure you that.

[themastrofall]

1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

I am disappointed that this dispute between developers was not deconflicted before a release was made (even early access) there should be a very clear scope for maps... I am upset that the communication failure by the developer caught ED and us by surprise, that is unacceptable behaviour for a developer to introduce a major change and not document it. 

 

This

Imagine asking the consumers what they thought of the situation before removing the nap bits post-release  

Edited August 10, 2024 by themastrofall

[dryheat94]

As someone brand new to DCS, who just dropped a boatload of cash during the last sale, I'm really regretting my purchases now. This is a really bad look for DCS and all 3rd parties.

I found the response from ORT to be a slap in the face to their customers. They tried to hide this, no excuse for that.

The lack of response from Ugra is deafening, wreaks of guilty.

Is there any adults in the room, who can fix this so I don't cry at night over the money I feel I just wasted?

Edited August 10, 2024 by dryheat94

[rob10]

30 minutes ago, Blaine Stars said:

Guys, look at the changelog. It looks like it was a mistake, not intentional.

Look at these two improvements, they are related to Israel. Why on earth would they delete something they improved? It doesn't make sense. It seems to me that they made a mistake in one area, it's the intern's fault.

*Added 2 types of acacia bushes for the south of Israel
*Improved trees on mountains in Israel

While the rest of your points may hold, it clearly was intentional to remove it currently.  To quote directly from ORT's post: "Yes, this part of the map was removed from the build intentionally."

[ThorBrasil]

Let's assume it's true that UgraMedia asked OnReTech to remove part of Israel. Wouldn't that be hypocritical since the Normandy 2.0 map has practically the entire ED Channel map?

I just think that UgraMedia should have the freedom to build the best Israel that DCS has ever seen, and if UgraMedia is bothered, it should just do the same. Customers will decide whether they want to buy the map with Sinal/Israel or Israel/Syria.

This fight only damages the image of the third parties and of ED itself. This will cause people to stop buying modules in the future because they lose confidence in the company and drive away many new buyers.

I myself will no longer buy modules from these companies until they improve their development and communication. The companies are Polychop, UgraMedia, Razbam and OnReTech.

Edited August 10, 2024 by ThorBrasil

[sasquatch98]

9 hours ago, OnReTech said:

Have a nice day, friends.

We see your indignation about the northern part of Israel in our map. Yes, this part of the map was removed from the build intentionally.
This was the demand of a third party, in order to quickly resolve the conflict, it was decided to do just that.
We are very sorry about what happened and apologize for the fact that this was not covered in advance.
But the dialogue continues, the data was not been completely removed, but only been excluded for this build.
We are doing everything possible to approve the return of northern Israel in the nearest upcoming update.

Do not be so categorical and hasty in your conclusions.
We can't always do what we want, sometimes we have to do what we are required to do.

It is obvious that our goal cannot be "to make the map worse".

I look forward to your company ceasing to exist you deserve it for your actions. 

25 minutes ago, dryheat94 said:

As someone brand new to DCS, who just dropped a boatload of cash during the last sale, I'm really regretting my purchases now. This is a really bad look for DCS and all 3rd parties.

I found the response from ORT to be a slap in the face to their customers. They tried to hide this, no excuse for that.

The lack of response from Ugra is deafening, wreaks of guilty.

Is there any adults in the room, who can fix this so I don't cry at night over the money I feel I just wasted?

 

I wouldn’t buy anything else on dcs for awhile until we see if any of these issues get resolved. This one has put me over my tolerance limit and I’m not going to be buying anything else until we see a major reset.

[Fenin]

Having 'this issue is solved' at the top of this thread is a slap in the face to nearly every customer who purchased it.

None of these third parties, or ED, are big enough to not fail.  You walk a dangerous path with all our good will and your own paychecks.

[sasquatch98]

3 hours ago, cfrag said:

IMHO, what we are witnessing is growing pains. This isn't the first internal dispute that has become an embarrassing public spectacle in the past 6 months, and it can happen if a company and their associates grow and are successful (which is good), and the way they work together can't adapt to new common requirements (which is bad), resulting in a decided lack of oversight. What ensues are squabbles (over money and personalities of course), and they boil to the surface, shaking the confidence of all customers into ED and their products.

I'm hoping that ED and their partners get together, hash out their differences, and allow the grown-ups to steer the newly forged, larger whole into less turbulent waters. What we are seeing does not look professional, and to many people (me included) perception is reality. The current reality seems bewildering to me, does not inspire confidence and makes me sad. Communication with customers has been the Achilles Heel for some time now, and maybe this can be the point where ED and their partners see the urgency of getting a significantly better grasp on customer communication and internal alignment with all partners. Customers want to hear ED and their partners speak with one voice, clear, and inspiringly. 

Here's to having a better second half of 2024. 

This isn’t growing pains it’s dcs dying in front of us unless there is a rapid course correction.

[OnReTech]

Dear friends and pilots.

On behalf of our company, we apologize for this error. The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding.

We will soon return everything to its place before the early access version (Northern part of the map). Having checked everything again beforehand.

Thank you for your understanding, we really value the opinion of users, and have done everything possible to solve this problem. Thanks again for your understanding.

[ColinM9991]

Just now, OnReTech said:

The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding

That's quite an error. Maybe communicating next time will be beneficial as it will give people a heads up and would also serve as a sanity check for yourselves. I'd imagine we'll have to wait for the next update. Hopefully ED can expedite that, but it's understandable if they don't and prefer to wait for their natural update cycle depending on when this change is backed out.

[gnomechild]

Good decision. Hopefully in the future any internal worries about who models what can be hashed out before selling the product 

[Torndo78]

2 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

Dear friends and pilots.

On behalf of our company, we apologize for this error. The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding.

 

Quote

This was the demand of a third party, in order to quickly resolve the conflict, it was decided to do just that.

WoW

[corbu1]

Thank you all. So the problem will be solved!

[gnomechild]

1 minute ago, ColinM9991 said:

That's quite an error. Maybe communicating next time will be beneficial as it will give people a heads up and would also serve as a sanity check for yourselves. I'd imagine we'll have to wait for the next update. Hopefully ED can expedite that, but it's understandable if they don't and prefer to wait for their natural update cycle depending on when this change is backed out.

I think it's pretty clear the "misunderstanding" was the customer reaction and the position this put ED into. I imagine they were rather busy dealing with refund requests they'd rather not have this weekend lol. Hopefully lessons learned 

[Gunfreak]

Honestly don't know what is true or not. And I guess we'll never know. But the important thing is that it looks like it will be fixed. With Chinook missing from steam, mig killers missing completly and Sinai having some kinda epic fault going on. Hopefully a major hot fix is coming next week to fix it all.

[GenericUser]

5 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

Dear friends and pilots.

On behalf of our company, we apologize for this error. The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding.

We will soon return everything to its place before the early access version (Northern part of the map). Having checked everything again beforehand.

Thank you for your understanding, we really value the opinion of users, and have done everything possible to solve this problem. Thanks again for your understanding.

Great to hear. Would be nice to find out a little detail on what happened. Was it a third party thing, an internal issue, or both? Speculation rarely goes anywhere nice, so itd be cool to be able to put things well and truely to bed

[Esac_mirmidon]

5 minutes ago, OnReTech said:

Dear friends and pilots.

On behalf of our company, we apologize for this error. The removal of this part of the map was an internal error and misunderstanding.

We will soon return everything to its place before the early access version (Northern part of the map). Having checked everything again beforehand.

Thank you for your understanding, we really value the opinion of users, and have done everything possible to solve this problem. Thanks again for your understanding.

Thanks for your kind reply and fast response about this issue. 

[Katalan]

10 hours ago, OnReTech said:

Have a nice day, friends.

We see your indignation about the northern part of Israel in our map. Yes, this part of the map was removed from the build intentionally.
This was the demand of a third party, in order to quickly resolve the conflict, it was decided to do just that.
We are very sorry about what happened and apologize for the fact that this was not covered in advance.
But the dialogue continues, the data was not been completely removed, but only been excluded for this build.
We are doing everything possible to approve the return of northern Israel in the nearest upcoming update.

Do not be so categorical and hasty in your conclusions.
We can't always do what we want, sometimes we have to do what we are required to do.

It is obvious that our goal cannot be "to make the map worse".

Imagine any car manufacturer like... MERCEDES... or FORD... when you go for the first oil change:

-Sorry guys we take out three of the four wheels, because MAZDA... or TOYOTA sells cars with it too. Here's your car... Do you need we call a tow truck?

Then we are in the same boat.

Another potentially RAZBAM case. This kind of customer treatment make me said every time louder: No more DCS buys till we see solutions, not punishment against ours.

[Esac_mirmidon]

They have stated just now everything will revert to the original state. Just read

[BIGNEWY]

threads merged. 

[OnReTech]

I think this situation will help create some conditions and rules, including testing and communication between third-party developers and ED. I believe that any errors and their corrections make the product better!

While we will return everything to its place, please evaluate the new objects and locations, new airfields, etc. Our team tried to make the module more interesting and useful in creating missions and free flights.

PS: since the return of data will take a little time, we will also fix some bugs that have already been noticed. We are doing this immediately. Thank you for your understanding again!