The unofficial "2025 and Beyond" video hype / speculation & discussion thread

[Weta43]

Quote

51 minutes ago, Boberro said:

 

2 hours ago, Skyhammer said:

80s Flanker vs 2010+ Aircraft Really?!

It is not that such scenario is unrealistic. It is perfectly realistic.

 

 

It’s true, during their colonial period the British used gatling guns against Africans armed with spears & leather shields to secure their interests, & when the U.S. invaded Panama or Grenada they really didn’t face any credible opposition - but it’s not really the most challenging of scenarios to simulate is it ?

I mean if all you want to do is maximise your score, f35 vs MiG-15 gets you that, but you’re relying on the tech, not your skill  

As someone (Yo Yo ?) wrote, sheer numbers can overpower technology, but it reminds me of a printed flyer I saw that was handed out to Australian troops poster to Papua New Guinea during WWII pointing out that the locals were 5’2” & 100 lb and there was no honour in beating them up if they were annoying. 

There’s a reason boxing is divided into weight divisions. 
 

Maybe it’s only an MP problem anyway - no one wanting to be the clay pigeon isn’t an issue if you make your own SP missions. 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

8 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Watched it like 20 times now. The cargo airdrop was pretty cool too!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk


 

As I said, flyable cargo could be a module some day.

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

2 hours ago, Lixma 06 said:

New California map.

No wonder there were so many fire at the start of the video. Sorry folks who are actually affected by the fire over there.

[Punkmonkey22]

1 hour ago, Weta43 said:

Saddened by the F-35, disappointed it's the F-15C not F-15A, happy the Draken is in there.

We really are moving to DCS being the SIM you start when you want to fly a US aircraft in a time warped lop sided turkey shoot.

But hey - my boy loved using that camaro with a bazooka in age of empires - to each their own...

Nobody is forcing you to use the modern stuff. Personally I find glass cockpits boring so I use modules like the F-4 mostly.

All this whingeing about "balance" but the option is there to just... not use the shiny new toys. There was the F-100 shown in the video, likely to come out this year. That isn't exactly cutting edge

[MicroShket]

46 минут назад, Silver_Dragon сказал:

a team has working on a Su-17

Same team as that one working on La-7 for last few years? We don't even know if these guys are alive.

[Silver_Dragon]

As I said, flyable cargo could be a module some day.

Could be?....many shots from C-130J with working cockpit.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

Same team as that one working on La-7 for last few years? We don't even know if these guys are alive.

Not the same team.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[MAXsenna]

disappointed it's the F-15C not F-15A,

Would also love an A. 
 

work on this modul must have been started some time ago. My guess, ED got a new third party and I wouldn‘t be surprised if it‘s IndiaFoxtEcho, which released a great model of the F-35 for another big Flight Sim (but this only my guess). 

Been planing and researching for 2+ years. IFE is not a new 33s party, MB-339. ED is doing it themselves. Check out the new subforum. 
 

New explosion (and blast) effects looks great, as well as new night illumination. Seems Vulcan isn‘t that far away

Vulkan will be a nice addition with the new dynamic campaign that was clearly showing off. 
 

The new Germany map looks astonished and I am wondering who is making this map

Ugra is. 

  Looking forward to a very comprehensive 2025 and beyond newsletter, maybe already today.

Same here. Your text is weird in dark mode. Might wanna set the color to auto and not black.  
 

They need to add some more & newer AI units. Rafales are quite popular in the middle east with Egypt, Qatar and the UAE using/buying them. Su-35S, SU-30SM2, MIG-29SMT & MIG-29K as well. Some more modern planes for NPCs/AI would be great. With all the maps being made in these regions it would make a lot of sense to add some more of these.

We need both new and older assets. 

[Bucic]

7 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

My god, so many whingers in here.

Really looking forward to the F-15C, both that and Fat Amy really were a surprise, didn't see either coming, especially the latter.

I really like how ED doesn't delete those certain YouTube comments and just lets the individuals make fools of themselves

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

40 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

Could be?....many shots from C-130J with working cockpit.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk
 

Oh, I meant cargo, not cargo plane...

19 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

We need bot new and older assets.

We need all the assets we can get our hands on...no, I am not talking about War Thunder...

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I understand some folks really want more red planes, a full-fi Su-27 would be like a poem (and all the variants please), but give us a MIG-23/27 when we are getting a F-15C and Tornado, enlightenment as I don't see the logic here.

[toni]

And.....what is happening with the eastern Carriers ?  We need a fully Red side Carrier module !  Liaoning, or even better the Fujian !  to balance  naval forces.

[BIGNEWY]

We all want many aircraft in DCS, Redfor and Bluefor, and eventually I am sure lots of our wishes will be granted. It is just a matter of time. 

I get there is lots of passionate people here in our community, but please remember we are all human, and enjoy the same hobby, be nice to each other and keep the feedback constructive. 

thank you 

[bfr]

18 minutes ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I understand some folks really want more red planes, a full-fi Su-27 would be like a poem (and all the variants please), but give us a MIG-23/27 when we are getting a F-15C and Tornado, enlightenment as I don't see the logic here.

In fairness, we we were meant to be getting at least a Mig-23 before the big falling out between ED & Razbam.  I doubt anyone else would have a crack at it until its 100% set that there is no way back for the one that was in progress.

[Silver_Dragon]

And.....what is happening with the eastern Carriers ?  We need a fully Red side Carrier module !  Liaoning, or even better the Fujian !  to balance  naval forces.

Chinese Carriers and other stuff from PLAF/PLAN coming from Dekka. Waiting is that 3rd party has more plans about more assets.

Enviado desde mi CPH2197 mediante Tapatalk

[buceador]

An outstanding video clearly involving many, many hours of work.  Spectacular cinematography!
Obviously many people exhibiting the the negativity bias human trait.
Lots of things to look forward to, keeping in mind this is DCS 2025 AND BEYOND...

Good job ED!

 

[jojyrocks]

2 hours ago, Punkmonkey22 said:

The Redfor aircraft that would be added are currently being used by both sides in an ongoing war. I'm not sure either party has the time or willingness to show documents and give access to aircraft... 

 

 

But at least, increase the numbers on the late cold war era, like Mig 23 which is needed and Mig 27, Su-22/17 etc...these cold war planes can increase the collection. With this we can at least more playability at least in 90s and early 2000 era scenarios in prospective redforce campaigns, and these redforce campaigns are lacking.

 

The F-35 will smash the redforce air to air, and it is only fun for those super precision style surgical strikes kinda missions. Mostly, ground pounding galore with the Middle east maps that already did have real life campaigns.

 

Then there is very mega slow updates on the already AI 3d models, we still have GIMP/Paint Mig 23, Mig 25 and Su-30, totally awkward seeing those with present graphics. Do we have to wait like years to have those 3d models updated? I don't get what is the big excitement in seeing the J-35 Draken when it is only an AI 3d asset and not a full module...

 

Cold war era is still lucrative.

 

 

Edited January 17 by jojyrocks

[ThePops]

8 hours ago, jojyrocks said:

Most probably a new AI model than a full module.

According to rumors, "someone" have been working on this for some time already. But, rumors are rumors  We will have to wait and see.

 

On another note (not directed at you btw), I must say I am disappointed at all the whining lately. It's like people are turning every little stone to find something to complain about. I have been into DCS a really long time. Not very actively and not very online, but I still got the original Flanker in some carboard box somewhere. DCS is what it is, and it's evolving S - L - O - W - L - Y. I mean, the "full fidelity" F-15C is something people have been wanting since the beginning of time. Today, when that is finally announced, a whole bunch of people finds all sorts of wrong with that also. It's unbelievable.

The same goes for the re-mastered F-5E. It was already rather OK IMO, maybe only slightly faded, but has now become much better and fit for fight the next 5-10 years. And people are whining because it costs $10. I mean come on. $10 is not even half a dessert at a restaurant. The value of that re-mastering for anyone really interesting in flight sims is way more than $10. I look at this $10 purely as a token thing. Over the next 5-10 years it will pay for some of the development and maintenance costs.

If you follow some series on Netflix or whatever, from time to time you grow tired of it. Do you start complaining? No, you just move on, and forget about it. Why can't people do that with flight sims? I really have no clue. It's an odd thing.

Having said that, I think this beyond video lacked the introductory commentaries. It lacked a grooving beat and a female voice. It lacked the "X-factor" in a way. It made up for it by the content and screen play. I cannot remember anything in the past that has presented so much new stuff as this year's video, and presented it this well screen-vise.

[bfr]

3 minutes ago, ThePops said:

According to rumors, "someone" have been working on this for some time already. But, rumors are rumors  We will have to wait and see.

 

On another note (not directed at you btw), I must say I am disappointed at all the whining lately. It's like people are turning every little stone to find something to complain about. I have been into DCS a really long time. Not very actively and not very online, but I still got the original Flanker in some carboard box somewhere. DCS is what it is, and it's evolving S - L - O - W - L - Y. I mean, the "full fidelity" F-15C is something people have been wanting since the beginning of time. Today, when that is finally announced, a whole bunch of people finds all sorts of wrong with that also. It's unbelievable.

The same goes for the re-mastered F-5E. It was already rather OK IMO, maybe only slightly faded, but has now become much better and fit for fight the next 5-10 years. And people are whining because it costs $10. I mean come on. $10 is not even half a dessert at a restaurant. The value of that re-mastering for anyone really interesting in flight sims is way more than $10. I look at this $10 purely as a token thing. Over the next 5-10 years it will pay for some of the development and maintenance costs.

If you follow some series on Netflix or whatever, from time to time you grow tired of it. Do you start complaining? No, you just move on, and forget about it. Why can't people do that with flight sims? I really have no clue. It's an odd thing.

Having said that, I think this beyond video lacked the introductory commentaries. It lacked a grooving beat and a female voice. It lacked the "X-factor" in a way. It made up for it by the content and screen play. I cannot remember anything in the past that has presented so much new stuff as this year's video, and presented it this well screen-vise.

I suspect the reaction to the F-15C is because one of more of the following:

- Its going to be a pure A2A platform (which I believe was cited as a reason why it hasn't been done already as it had slightly less limited appeal to a multi-role platform)

- That we already have the F-15E, plus all the feelings about whether we'll ever have a finished F-15E or even still have an F-15E at all in x months time.

I'm glad they're finally doing it though, even if I would prefer a finished F-15E given a straight choice (but we all know why that might not ever happen).  I personally don't have an issue with pure A2A jets, especially if they're 'best of breed' ones. I believe the Typhoon we're getting will be A2A only too (at least to begin with) and i'll likely get my wallet out for that.

 

[ThorBrasil]

10 hours ago, BuzzU said:

The video sparked no emotion in me. ED can do better. Disappointing.

 

6 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

This isn’t to downplay the incredible work ED has accomplished. The game has seen some fantastic improvements over the past year that deserves recognition. But rather, to ask you to question whether the lack of enthusiasm you're experience isn't is really related to the quality of the video , or whether your statement that "ED can do better" with a video may be misdirected towards the content creators and rather could be an unrealized change in your own mindset and expectation? 

 

That's true, Dangerzone. I've seen people who can't play anymore because they say it's boring and they don't have the nostalgia of the past, but that's not DCS/Games' fault, but rather the mindset of the person who lives in black and white and can no longer see the joy that children, especially, have. Sometimes people aren't happy with their lives and end up taking it out on other people's work. What's needed is a change of mindset so that life becomes colorful and doesn't remain in black and white thinking that nothing is good. Life becomes colorful when you get closer to Jesus Christ and start practicing gratitude for everything you have.

I loved the video and really liked what I saw. Now I don't plan on buying the F-15C and the F-35A because they're not my style. I would really like the ad to be for the Su-25A, but that's just my taste and I know that many are extremely happy, especially with the F-15C. Of all the modules that should come out in a short period of time, I'm only looking at the F-104 and C-130.

[Jayhawk1971]

I remember when DID released EF-2000 and later both F-22 Air Dominance Fighter and its successor, Total Air War. I had so much fun with those games! And at no point was I wringing my hands lamenting the "lack of realism". I suppose the F-35 will fall into a similar category: more guesstimates than fully documented features, "simulation of effect/outcome" rather than accurate systems modeling. 

I for one care more about what I can see rather than what's being simulated under the hood. For example, I don't necessarily need a faithful representation of the hydraulic system, as long as the effect (working control surfaces) seems plausible enough. I want my disbelief suspended enough to enjoy the game; how the game does it is less interesting to me.

And as long as the price tag will reflect the fact that this module will most likely be "mid-fidelity", I will be totally fine with that. Who says that ED has to forever be condemned to only release full-fidelity modules? Just a reminder that DCS retains a good amount of its LOMAC-DNA and still has the Flaming Cliffs modules in its portfolio (which it recently added to). They can absolutely broaden their lineup by releasing "lesser-fidelity"* modules if they believe that there is a market for that. I'm sure that will not diminish its existing full-fidelity lineup, nor any upcoming FF products (like the F-15C). 

Let's wait and see what product ED delivers first, and grab torches and pitchforks later.  And remember: there is no obligation to buy anything that you don't like.

*if the F-35 even is "mid-fidelity" (emphasis on "if"). Who knows what ED has is store? We'll see....in about "two weeks (TM)".

Edited January 17 by Jayhawk1971

[ThePops]

11 minutes ago, bfr said:

That we already have the F-15E, plus all the feelings about whether we'll ever have a finished F-15E or even still have an F-15E at all in x months time

So what. Seriously, you win some, you lose some. That's how the world turns. I think we will have the F-15E for all eternity though. The alternative can only be seen as the best (worst) example of how to shoot yourself in the foot in the history of flight sims. It's not impossible, but not very likely either. Not from a business perspective. But, as with the Draken, we will have to wait and see   

I don't find these aircraft even comparable. The F-15C is a true eagle at the top of the food chain (or at least it tried to be  ). The F-15E is a tank, a war machine. I agree that the E is overall more interesting than the C though. My point is that a "full fidelity" C is a really big thing, and something that has been wanted for ages. That people find negative things to say about that is just that. It's pure negativity. Pure negativity as in believing it is somehow important to find something negative to say and litter the forums with. It serves no purpose other than spreading negativity.

[ThorBrasil]

7 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

I remember when DID released EF-2000 and later both F-22 Air Dominance Fighter and its successor, Total Air War. I had so much fun with those games! And at no point was I wringing my hands lamenting the "lack of realism". I suppose the F-35 will fall into a similar category: more guesstimates than fully documented features, "simulation of effect/outcome" rather than accurate systems modeling. 

I for one care more about what I can see rather than what's being simulated under the hood. For example, I don't necessarily need a faithful representation of the hydraulic system, as long as the effect (working control surfaces) seems plausible enough. I want my disbelief suspended enough to enjoy the game; how the game does it is less interesting to me.

And as long as the price tag will reflect the fact that this module will most likely be "mid-fidelity", I will be totally fine with that. Who says that ED has to forever be condemned to only release full-fidelity modules? Just a reminder that DCS retains a good amount of its LOMAC-DNA and still has the Flaming Cliffs modules in its portfolio (which it recently added to). They can absolutely broaden their lineup by releasing "lesser-fidelity"* modules if they believe that there is a market for that. I'm sure that will not diminish its existing full-fidelity lineup, nor any upcoming FF products (like the F-15C). 

Let's wait and see what product ED delivers first, and grab torches and pitchforks later.  And remember: there is no obligation to buy anything that you don't like.

*if the F-35 even is "mid-fidelity" (emphasis on "if"). Who knows what ED has is store? We'll see....in about "two weeks (TM)".

I already prefer full fidelity in all systems. Medium/low fidelity already includes Il2 and War Thunder, which are games I can't stand. I myself don't like the Flaming Cliffs product. Of course I have nothing against those who like it.

[Jayhawk1971]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb ThorBrasil:

I already prefer full fidelity in all systems. Medium/low fidelity already includes Il2 and War Thunder, which are games I can't stand. I myself don't like the Flaming Cliffs product. Of course I have nothing against those who like it.

You are missing my point somewhat. The Flaming Cliffs modules do not take away anything from the full-fidelity modules. Releasing something "in-between" will also not diminish any of the full-fidelity modules. It's not a zero-sum game. Your preference for full-fidelity will not be affected. 

Releasing the F-35, and who knows, maybe even the F-22 and/or SU-57 in the future will not suddenly turn DCS into "War Thunder"! 

I also prefer the full-fidelity modules, but I might give Fat Amy a chance, depending on what ED delivers. And should it turn out to be too "lightweight" for me, it would still not be skin off my back.

 

Edited January 17 by Jayhawk1971

[ThorBrasil]

8 minutes ago, Jayhawk1971 said:

You are missing my point somewhat. The Flaming Cliffs modules do not take away anything from the full-fidelity modules. Releasing something "in-between" will also not diminish any of the full-fidelity modules. It's not a zero-sum game. Your preference for full-fidelity will not be affected. 

Releasing the F-35, and who knows, maybe even the F-22 and/or SU-57 in the future will not suddenly turn DCS into "War Thunder"! 

I also prefer the full-fidelity modules, but I might give Fat Amy a chance, depending on what ED delivers. And should it turn out to be too "lightweight" for me, it would still not be skin off my back.

 

I don't even give a chance to modules that aren't full fidelity. The fun of DCS is the full fidelity modules. Doing the correct procedures, interacting with the systems. If you do something wrong the procedure doesn't work, etc. Now it's like I said. I have nothing against those who like this simplified system.