iflos reported IFLOLS doesnt work on Case IIIs, new deck crews dont seem to work with the Tomcat, etc.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I did not trap on this pass. I did not get WO from LSO. I did my own WO. In fact, after ball call, I gor no LSO calls.

I get this chronically. Supercarrier just does not show ball, no LSO WO, no LSO calls at all so I have no clue what to do , except go around.

OK I am probably high, but the ball should show this to me, and LSO "YOU'RE HIGH" or similar. But I get none of that. I feel cheated. Like Pvt. Pyle in FMJ.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Here is the track from that training flight. 

My notes; LSO is useless. Ball limited use. On second pass I got roger ball, but no corrections from LSO. Trapped slightly off center, and cauught 3 wire. But all that is B.S. ! its nonsense. I landed with high VV and damaged gear. Yet LSO gave me OK 3 Wire. I can't trust it. Its B.S. The critical information , the ball, the LSO call, are useless, wrong, or not issued at all.

ED got some work to do.

Useless_LSO_OK_3wire_badTrap.trk

[DD_Fenrir]

Just from that screenshot I can tell you're too coming in too high and your gildeslope is way too steep; the ball is there, it works, it's just off the scale at the top.

This is also why landed at very high sink rate and broke the gear.

You need to come in lower at a shallower gildeslope angle.

 

Edited August 4, 2024 by DD_Fenrir

[SteelPig]

For training the CASE I approach it is very helpfull to activate ICLS. It helps a lot to know where you should be when, and you can develop a correct picture in your head to judge from if your approach looks right or not. 

 

Eidt: And if the LSO will talk to you depends on if you did the comms before right. At least you need to be checked in.

Edited August 4, 2024 by SteelPig

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I was all checked in.

Inbound

See You at t0

Ball call at start of groove. Got Roger Ball acknowledge then silence from LSO. At least a WO would be nice to hear or flashing WO ball lights.

On one attempt, same as above, no LSO corrections after Roger Ball. I broke gear by hitting the round down. Gear got bent backwards but hooh caught the #1 wire, I am sitting on deck with bent gear, Xmas tree lights, and LSO gives me fair pass #1 wire grade. WHAT!!!!!  How about a WaveOff.

Secod occurence, not sequential, is the included track. High VV, bent gear, but LSO gives me OK 3wire. 

Thats not a LSO AI system I can trust. Its AFU AFIAK. Proof is in the track.

My #1 problem, as far as skill in Case 1 is turn from 90 into the groove. I can't do it. Can't do it right any way. I am nearly always, always, too wide or too shalow. I cannot line up. Even with high res Stennis textures, I cannot see the landing area line up until the last moment. My ILS is on bars are on HUD. it just never happens. I never line up in groove. 100 atttempts, 100 bad line ups.

[draconus]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

100 atttempts, 100 bad line ups.

Practice more. Watch youtube for proper case I performance. Practice even more.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

Practice more. Watch youtube for proper case I performance. Practice even more.

I CANT SEE THE LANDING AREA! I can't judge the lineup until its too late. Its drawn flat gray. No lines. The markings resolve when I am almost at the ramp.

[razo+r]

What are your graphic settings? 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I CANT SEE THE LANDING AREA! I can't judge the lineup until its too late. Its drawn flat gray. No lines. The markings resolve when I am almost at the ramp.

We've been through this already. Screenshots and tracks.

You can line up just by looking at the carrier if you're experienced. The lines are not always visibile IRL and carriers have them worn out after months of traps. Use other means for line up, ex. ICLS until you're consistent in your approaches.

[wilbur81]

8 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I did not trap on this pass. I did not get WO from LSO. I did my own WO. In fact, after ball call, I gor no LSO calls.

I get this chronically. Supercarrier just does not show ball, no LSO WO, no LSO calls at all so I have no clue what to do , except go around.

OK I am probably high, but the ball should show this to me, and LSO "YOU'RE HIGH" or similar. But I get none of that. I feel cheated. Like Pvt. Pyle in FMJ.

You're WAY too high... Fresnel lens system is completely out of view. Your velocity vector on the HUD has you touching down with nose wheel over the water in that screen.

[cw4ogden]

6 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

"My #1 problem, as far as skill in Case 1 is turn from 90 into the groove. I can't do it. Can't do it right any way. I am nearly always, always, too wide or too shalow. I cannot line up. Even with high res Stennis textures, I cannot see the landing area line up until the last moment. My ILS is on bars are on HUD. it just never happens. I never line up in groove. 100 atttempts, 100 bad line ups."

 

A real life technique for judging turns to line up with a runway is to keep your focus on the far end of the runway.  Why it helps I don't know.  Granted on the carrier this requires some imagination. 

 

I picture an imaginary runway running forward of the boat.  I make corrections to arrive over that imaginary runway, not focusing on the "approach end" but keeping my eyes trained on the far end of the imaginary runway, an imaginary point somewhat forward of the boat to account for the fact the carrier's landing area represents a small portion of a normal runway.  An imaginary point in space 5000' or so in front of the boat in line with the landing heading.

Fudge a bit to account for boats forward motion, which obviously complicates it some, but the principle of looking at the far end of your landing area is known to help pilots judge turns to final.  To apply it to carriers requires a little imagination but may help.

edit: you are indeed, way too high to see the ball in the screenshot posted.  a 3 degree glide slope means your landing area should barely be below the horizon.  Roughly three degrees.  I'd guess to make the 3 wire from the point you are in that screenshot, you'd need a 10 degree or more glide path angle.  Well beyond what the ball can display.

Edited August 4, 2024 by cw4ogden

[cw4ogden]

Bankler's is a useful tool, pre-installed on a few servers that may help too.  A few servers had it in their name or description making it searchable, don't know if that's still the case.

I personally think learning case 3 recoveries first is the way to go.  Case 1 recovery is one of the hardest tasks in DCS, rivalled only by air to air refueling.  Learning the case 3 intimidates most, because of the bookwork to understand tacan, but it is a much smaller stepping stone, to go from case three approaches to then mastering the case 1.  

 

 

Edited August 4, 2024 by cw4ogden

[DmitriKozlowsky]

16 hours ago, cw4ogden said:

A real life technique for judging turns to line up with a runway is to keep your focus on the far end of the runway.  Why it helps I don't know.  Granted on the carrier this requires some imagination. 

 

I picture an imaginary runway running forward of the boat.  I make corrections to arrive over that imaginary runway, not focusing on the "approach end" but keeping my eyes trained on the far end of the imaginary runway, an imaginary point somewhat forward of the boat to account for the fact the carrier's landing area represents a small portion of a normal runway.  An imaginary point in space 5000' or so in front of the boat in line with the landing heading.

Fudge a bit to account for boats forward motion, which obviously complicates it some, but the principle of looking at the far end of your landing area is known to help pilots judge turns to final.  To apply it to carriers requires a little imagination but may help.

edit: you are indeed, way too high to see the ball in the screenshot posted.  a 3 degree glide slope means your landing area should barely be below the horizon.  Roughly three degrees.  I'd guess to make the 3 wire from the point you are in that screenshot, you'd need a 10 degree or more glide path angle.  Well beyond what the ball can display.

 

BY the time I see the carrier come into cockoit view its already out of line up. The angles are AFU. Magically the carrier is always being blocked, regarless of how I move my head view, by canopy or HUD frame. Untill its inside HUD, then its oo late for correction. Whenit does come  inside HUD , its a gray blob.I am unable to resolve by relative angle between my plane and flight deck crotch. I am almost at ramp by the time landing area is rsolved and I can see some lines, only to find myself that too far left, or right, or I am pointing not along centerline. Visual correction are nigh impossible. My view 2560X1440, my distance is Medium, and sharpen to 1. Land runways appear just fine. i should be able to make out SC landing area from a bit farther.

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

BY the time I see the carrier come into cockoit view its already out of line up. The angles are AFU. Magically the carrier is always being blocked, regarless of how I move my head view, by canopy or HUD frame. Untill its inside HUD, then its oo late for correction. Whenit does come  inside HUD , its a gray blob.I am unable to resolve by relative angle between my plane and flight deck crotch. I am almost at ramp by the time landing area is rsolved and I can see some lines, only to find myself that too far left, or right, or I am pointing not along centerline. Visual correction are nigh impossible. My view 2560X1440, my distance is Medium, and sharpen to 1. Land runways appear just fine. i should be able to make out SC landing area from a bit farther.

You've been given enough info and videos in the other thread already. Fly it by the numbers (speed, time, aoa, alt, bank angle) and you'll get the same results - I know, it's the hard part, that's why you have to practice.

Also did you try the Bankler's mission? You'll have the points for each part of the approach so you'll see where and when you get it right or wrong.

Also check other missions - maybe you fly directly into the sunlight so it's normal you'll only see reflecting deck.

And btw: Practice, practice, practice.

[Analconda]

The new update is awesome and im loving the new plane directors, but Supercarrier has acquired a few bugs.

First of all, IFLOLS has stopped working on Case III landings. I have repeatedly tried Case IIIs to test it, and I have noticed that:

I. IFLOLS is quite simply off during most Case IIIs;

II. On the occasions where it does actually turn on, it does so WAY TOO LATE, well under 1nm. At this kind of distance you might as well not bother turning it on.

As anyone might imagine, this makes Case IIIs harder and is simply unrealistic.

Also, I might be doing something wrong, but the Tomcat simply cannot go through cold starts on Supercarrier with the new deck crews. The initial "grape" that authorizes startup after the first salute does not react to the salute at all, and you also cant tell the crew chief to connect ground power or external air, making it impossible to start the Tomcat.

Lastly, I dont know if I can even report this on the same topic, but I have noticed that on some missions you cant pre-edit the loadout on the mission planner before the mission. I noticed this when trying to play the "SC Cold Start" for the Hornet on the Caucasus map: every time I changed my flight's loadouts and skins and left the mission planner, it reset to default

[Dentedend10]

On 12/6/2024 at 6:35 PM, Analconda said:

The new update is awesome and im loving the new plane directors, but Supercarrier has acquired a few bugs.

First of all, IFLOLS has stopped working on Case III landings. I have repeatedly tried Case IIIs to test it, and I have noticed that:

I. IFLOLS is quite simply off during most Case IIIs;

II. On the occasions where it does actually turn on, it does so WAY TOO LATE, well under 1nm. At this kind of distance you might as well not bother turning it on.

As anyone might imagine, this makes Case IIIs harder and is simply unrealistic.

Also, I might be doing something wrong, but the Tomcat simply cannot go through cold starts on Supercarrier with the new deck crews. The initial "grape" that authorizes startup after the first salute does not react to the salute at all, and you also cant tell the crew chief to connect ground power or external air, making it impossible to start the Tomcat.

Lastly, I dont know if I can even report this on the same topic, but I have noticed that on some missions you cant pre-edit the loadout on the mission planner before the mission. I noticed this when trying to play the "SC Cold Start" for the Hornet on the Caucasus map: every time I changed my flight's loadouts and skins and left the mission planner, it reset to default

I have noticed the same on Case I recoveries. Tried F14A quick mission Caucasus super carrier Case I landing. Also tried on Persian Gulf map - Case I super carrier F14A. The IFLOLS didn’t turn on at all. ILS was my only guide which seemed to work

[draconus]

On 12/7/2024 at 3:35 AM, Analconda said:

Also, I might be doing something wrong, but the Tomcat simply cannot go through cold starts on Supercarrier with the new deck crews. The initial "grape" that authorizes startup after the first salute does not react to the salute at all, and you also cant tell the crew chief to connect ground power or external air, making it impossible to start the Tomcat.

We need a sample mission because I tested the Tomcat cold start with new directors and all was fine - startup, taxi, cat, launch, trap, taxi, shutdown.

[BIGNEWY]

there is an issue with IFLOS currently and I have reported it to the team. 

please include a short as possible track replay for the deck crew issue

thank you 

[Fish]

Trust you have mastered it since its now Nov, 

Ive bee a virtual pilot for many years, and it took me several months, practicing traps almost every day, to get competent (but never master) it. And even when you've got it you'll never get 100% trap rate, that's the nature of the complexity of this procedure, and why RL pilots have to continuously practice and get graded. 

I hope you used Balklers, it was a game changer for me. Also after bolter, learn to stay dirty and on speed,  extend 1 mile  on BRC to 600ft, then try landing again, you can cycle attempts in about 4mins this way. 

 

[Analconda]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:48 AM, BIGNEWY said:

there is an issue with IFLOS currently and I have reported it to the team. 

please include a short as possible track replay for the deck crew issue

thank you 

Will do in a few hours, when I get home from work. Thank you for the response

[BIGNEWY]

9 minutes ago, Analconda said:

Will do in a few hours, when I get home from work. Thank you for the response

no rush have a good day. 

We are looking at other deck examples also, but if you havn't already have a read of Wags guide for a better experience it may help 

 

[Analconda]

 

10 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

no rush have a good day. 

We are looking at other deck examples also, but if you havn't already have a read of Wags guide for a better experience it may help 

 

This particular mission is the "Carrier Quals - CVN 73" on the Instant Missions tab. Grapes ignores me even when I got a hot start, and I had already saluted him 4 times

Edited December 11, 2024 by Analconda
Uploaded the same video twice

[Analconda]

10 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

no rush have a good day. 

We are looking at other deck examples also, but if you havn't already have a read of Wags guide for a better experience it may help 

 

In this particular mission, part of a custom campaign avaliable on the User Files, I saluted 8 times and nothing happened. I tried multiple missions on the Fear the Bones campaign and the results were the same.

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Analconda said:

Grapes ignores me even when I got a hot start, and I had already saluted him 4 times

Afaik the comms menu Salute does not work for the Tomcat (at least for the new deck crew) - you have to use the binding - same one you used for cat launch. @BIGNEWY can you mention that to the team?

[Joch1955]

I can confirm that on the F14, the “Salute” command in the Radio Menu does nothing, you have to use the separate “Catapult Salute” key (lshift + U) and then it works as it should.