user error Datalink busted

[Hyperlynx]

Gamblers mission 10. No datalink whatsoever, despite taking care to set the time, even cycling all datalink switches to attempt restart.

Track file exceeds 50mb, so I've linked it: https://drive.proton.me/urls/65YK2Q0D3G#V2hLHOe6uymN

NB: confirmed to not be an issue with the mission itself. I first accidentally made this post in the bugs forum for the Gamblers campaign instead of here, and Baltic Dragon checked it out and confirmed no issues as far as he could see.

Edited February 26 by Hyperlynx

[Florence201]

This appears to be an ongoing issue, which MAY be AI role dependent. If set to CAP, L16 PPLI will sometimes take upwards of 10 minutes to appear on the HSD. If set to other roles, the PPLI transmit time is variable. 

Additionally, i have seen AI set to Hot start, that transmit their PPLI the moment they are airborne. There does not appear to be 1 set of circumstances that lead to L16 PPLI being visible or not

[Hyperlynx]

This is STILL an issue. My datalink was broken again this Monday's ops, though my wingman's was working fine. This was on the Kola map, a co-op mission with no AI wingmen.

And what on earth do you mean, "need non-paid campaign track"? You're telling me you don't have access to your own products, for testing purposes? Come off it.

Don't just wash your hands of the problem. I'm not making it up, here. Fix it, please.

Edited April 18 by Hyperlynx

[Hofftari]

7 hours ago, Hyperlynx said:

And what on earth do you mean, "need non-paid campaign track"? You're telling me you don't have access to your own products, for testing purposes? Come off it.

Don't just wash your hands of the problem. I'm not making it up, here. Fix it, please.

Because paid campains have scripts and stuff that might interfere with something, a clean mission you've created for the bug report purpose works best and has no unknown variables that can interfere with the bug. You clearly have no idea how software development works, so don't go all dunning-kruger and be rude because you can't follow simple directions.

[Hyperlynx]

  

On 4/18/2025 at 10:04 AM, Hofftari said:

Because paid campains have scripts and stuff that might interfere with something, a clean mission you've created for the bug report purpose works best and has no unknown variables that can interfere with the bug. You clearly have no idea how software development works, so don't go all dunning-kruger and be rude because you can't follow simple directions.

I'm a professional software engineer, and have been for over a decade.

When a bug like this lands on my desk, it's up to me to reproduce it. Not the customer. And then I fix it.

If a customer reports a bug, support asks them to supply logs, they do so, and then I come back to tell my boss "actually I need them to stand on their head and use a hula-hoop at the same time" then he'd quite rightly tell me to stand on my head and use a hula-hoop at the same time. That's my job, not the customer's!

This has been a persistent issue for at least a year now. Just Monday it broke again. I've produced a reproduction case, the fact that it requires another product which ED also sell has no bearing on the matter.

It's not easy to reproduce. It doesn't happen on demand, and at the moment only happens maybe 20% of the time. Those are the worst kind of bugs to try to reproduce and fix, my absolute least favourite, and I'm sympathetic. Perhaps it only happens when there's a certain combination of factors? Fortunately I've provided a case of exactly that happening.

That's also why I'm not putting in my own time to repro it; I get enough of that at work. Its literally not my job to diagnose other peoples' software for them, specially for free.

Edited April 21 by Hyperlynx
dialed it back a bit

[BIGNEWY]

12 hours ago, Hyperlynx said:

  

I'm a professional software engineer, and have been for over a decade.

When a bug like this lands on my desk, it's up to me to reproduce it. Not the customer. And then I fix it.

If a customer reports a bug, support asks them to supply logs, they do so, and then I come back to tell my boss "actually I need them to stand on their head and use a hula-hoop at the same time" then he'd quite rightly tell me to stand on my head and use a hula-hoop at the same time. That's my job, not the customer's!

This has been a persistent issue for at least a year now. Just Monday it broke again. I've produced a reproduction case, the fact that it requires another product which ED also sell has no bearing on the matter.

It's not easy to reproduce. It doesn't happen on demand, and at the moment only happens maybe 20% of the time. Those are the worst kind of bugs to try to reproduce and fix, my absolute least favourite, and I'm sympathetic. Perhaps it only happens when there's a certain combination of factors? Fortunately I've provided a case of exactly that happening.

That's also why I'm not putting in my own time to repro it; I get enough of that at work. Its literally not my job to diagnose other peoples' software for them, specially for free.

Hi, 

we are unable to reproduce. 

If you can please attach a track replay from a simple mission showing the issues and we will take a closer look. 

thank you 

[NineLine]

Hi, so I went ahead and tried Mission 10 on my own, after a proper start up, Datalink worked as expected.

So I took your track and took control after alignment. I turned off D/L and realigned. After Alignment was complete, I turned D/L back on, and everything seemed fine.

So, it seems like the error might have been caused by your alignment procedures. Please check and let me know.

Thanks!

[Hyperlynx]

4 hours ago, NineLine said:

Hi, so I went ahead and tried Mission 10 on my own, after a proper start up, Datalink worked as expected.

So I took your track and took control after alignment. I turned off D/L and realigned. After Alignment was complete, I turned D/L back on, and everything seemed fine.

So, it seems like the error might have been caused by your alignment procedures. Please check and let me know.

Thanks!

I see. Thank you for checking.

I'm reasonably sure it's not my procedure, because I do the same thing every time: all switches on the rightmost panel on, mids knob on, datalink knob to stored heading, then I'm careful to not move the jet or rearm it until ALIGN blinks in the HUD, at which point I set the knob to NAV. Then I enable GPS time on the relevant DED page.

That would have been the procedure I used in that session, too. Does the trackfile capture what I did? Does it indicate that I deviated from procedure?

Still, if it happens again I'll try the procedure from the start, and I'll post a trackfile here.

[Moonshine]

Dont turn on Mids before your alignment is complete and your time page shows „GPS“. In some cases, you even have to roll out of the hangar.

 

Edited April 22 by Moonshine

[macedk]

23 hours ago, Moonshine said:

Dont turn on Mids before your alignment is complete and your time page shows „GPS“. In some cases, you even have to roll out of the hangar.

 

So all but Mids is ok to turn on on the right panel and only wait on the Mids ? 
 

[_SteelFalcon_]

On 4/23/2025 at 4:11 PM, macedk said:

So all but Mids is ok to turn on on the right panel and only wait on the Mids ? 
 

Align INS, set GPS knob on, check TIME Page and wait until it says „GPS System“ on the top line. Once „GPS“ text appears, you can turn on DL and MIDS switches

[speed-of-heat]

i didn't think the DL switch had any function in our Block 50 ? 

 

[_SteelFalcon_]

56 minutes ago, speed-of-heat said:

i didn't think the DL switch had any function in our Block 50 ? 

 

You‘re correct, it doesnt

[skywalker22]

2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

i didn't think the DL switch had any function in our Block 50 ? 

 

DataLink (DL) and Map Power Switch (MAP; top right on the same panel) switches are not in use in Block 50.

[macedk]

5 hours ago, _SteelFalcon_ said:

Align INS, set GPS knob on, check TIME Page and wait until it says „GPS System“ on the top line. Once „GPS“ text appears, you can turn on DL and MIDS switches

Thanks

2 hours ago, skywalker22 said:

DataLink (DL) and Map Power Switch (MAP; top right on the same panel) switches are not in use in Block 50.

If there is a switch to flip, it will get flipped

[skywalker22]

4 minutes ago, macedk said:

Thanks

If there is a switch to flip, it will get flipped

It can't hurt, right?

[macedk]

Just now, skywalker22 said:

It can't hurt, right?

And what pilots don't tell in their story, they became pilots due to the overhead panel...

[Hyperlynx]

On 4/22/2025 at 2:53 PM, Moonshine said:

Dont turn on Mids before your alignment is complete and your time page shows „GPS“. In some cases, you even have to roll out of the hangar.

 

Why is this marked as the solution? If anything this is a workaround, not a fix. The ordinary procedure is to turn on MIDS at the same time as starting the alignment. That's also what's stated in the manual:
null

It also doesn't explain why most of the time it works fine but sometimes doesn't work.

In any case, I'll incorporate this into my procedures and see how it goes.

[speed-of-heat]

You can u mark it as a solution if you like...you are the thread owner

[Moonshine]

look, i did not claim my post was "the solution as it would be in the real jet". it is just the way DCS does it at this very moment in time. reference this: 

 

[Hyperlynx]

20 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

look, i did not claim my post was "the solution as it would be in the real jet". it is just the way DCS does it at this very moment in time. reference this: 

 

Right, I see. Thanks.

What I posted was from the DCS F-16 manual, but I guess it's out of date.
 

2 hours ago, speed-of-heat said:

You can u mark it as a solution if you like...you are the thread owner

That's the thing, I didn't mark it as the solution, and I got an error message trying to un-mark it. But, well, turns out it *is* the answer because they changed the procedure...

[Hyperlynx]

Anyway, yeah: user error. My bad. I should pay closer attention to the update notes.

[macedk]

On 4/27/2025 at 3:03 AM, Hyperlynx said:

Anyway, yeah: user error. My bad. I should pay closer attention to the update notes.

It is sort of stated in the manual page 133.