waiting for resolution ED/RAZBAM Situation Info & Discussion

[Silver_Dragon]

The fact that a certain Reddit account is still considered a reliable source is laughable... the same one that has never bothered to provide any proof of what it publishes, like a good tabloid... (and that tried to get me into trouble). Just try to dig up certain dead bodies from time to time, because you have to keep feeding the bait.

[Hammer1-1]

9 hours ago, Aapje said:

If only it were that easy (in general).

It almost always is. You know why? Because everyone loves money. Employers do not like BS, even more so if your product is buggy half the time and unfinished with no estimated time of completion. The only other time Ive ever seen this kind of BS running rampant and getting away with it are with government contracts...and considering a possible government contract is what supposedly brought this issue on tells me everything I need to know.

[Aapje]

9 hours ago, freehand said:

Are you a third party developer ? only I am wondering how you know.

I'm familiar with cases where people followed the contract and yet were not paid, both near me, and from the news. The claim that following a contract means that you always get paid is thus false.

And I added 'in general' to my comment to clarify that I was talking about the general situation, not specifically ED & third party developers.

[Hammer1-1]

42 minutes ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The fact that a certain Reddit account is still considered a reliable source is laughable... the same one that has never bothered to provide any proof of what it publishes, like a good tabloid... (and that tried to get me into trouble). Just try to dig up certain dead bodies from time to time, because you have to keep feeding the bait.

the last place on earth for accurate information would be reddit with blue sky being a very close second.

[Aapje]

Just now, Hammer1-1 said:

Employers do not like BS, even more so if your product is buggy half the time and unfinished with no estimated time of completion. The only other time Ive ever seen this kind of BS running rampant and getting away with it are with government contracts...and considering a possible government contract is what supposedly brought this issue on tells me everything I need to know.

Not really sure what you are saying here. Are you claiming that ED refused to pay Razbam over buggy modules?

And not sure what the government contract bit is about either.

[Hammer1-1]

Just now, Aapje said:

Not really sure what you are saying here. Are you claiming that ED refused to pay Razbam over buggy modules?

And not sure what the government contract bit is about either.

No, Im saying ED isnt paying Razbam because they're using their SDK in a manner they arent supposed to...using it for one of EDs potential customers for a profit behind ED's back. A govt contract. Im saying if Razbam's modules were top quality, they could probably get away with small things like that...and lets face it: their modules are about average. Not above, not below. About what is expected of you if you punch a clock every single day. Just...never completed, its like the gravy train that rolls on and on and on and on

[JuiceIsLoose]

4 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

No, Im saying ED isnt paying Razbam because they're using their SDK in a manner they arent supposed to...using it for one of EDs potential customers for a profit behind ED's back. A govt contract.

Please indicate where this has been stated by anyone at ED?

[Aapje]

5 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

No, Im saying ED isnt paying Razbam because they're using their SDK in a manner they arent supposed to...using it for one of EDs potential customers for a profit behind ED's back.

The first part is so vague to be impossible to judge. The second part can very well be false, since it has been said that Razbam would actually make the plane for free for the FAE, other than the exchange of a technical package, so that is not a profit.

5 minutes ago, Hammer1-1 said:

A govt contract. Im saying if Razbam's modules were top quality, they could probably get away with small things like that...and lets face it: their modules are about average. Not above, not below. About what is expected of you if you punch a clock every single day. Just...never completed, its like the gravy train that rolls on and on and on and on

Are you seriously claiming that the government considers quality so important that it will let them overlook other things?? Laughable.

Government contracts are well known for going to the lowest bidder and the lower tier soldiers/employees ending up with crap. There is a reason why soldiers very often buy their own gear.

And then you have all the corruption of course. Just look at how so many contracts went to SIG for the handguns.

[NineLine]

45 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Please indicate where this has been stated by anyone at ED?

Are you seeing the never-ending circle here yet? You claim something not corroborated by both sides, then someone shares their opinion not corroborated by both sides. One person believes their source, another believes theirs... and around we go again. Welcome to this thread. 

[JuiceIsLoose]

1 minute ago, NineLine said:

Are you seeing the never-ending circle here yet? You claim something not corroborated by both sides, then someone shares their opinion not corroborated by both sides. One person believes their source, another believes theirs... and around we go again. Welcome to this thread. 

Then maybe some clarity and transparency by the source, ED, would help both sides. 

[Silver_Dragon]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

The first part is so vague to be impossible to judge. The second part can very well be false, since it has been said that Razbam would actually make the plane for free for the FAE, other than the exchange of a technical package, so that is not a profit.

Are you seriously claiming that the government considers quality so important that it will let them overlook other things?? Laughable.

Government contracts are well known for going to the lowest bidder and the lower tier soldiers/employees ending up with crap. There is a reason why soldiers very often buy their own gear.

And then you have all the corruption of course. Just look at how so many contracts went to SIG for the handguns.

Of course, Ron and his brother himself have been posting on social media for many years (almost since the days of the AV-8B) that they were working closely with the FAE on the A-29... and they are going to do it in DCS World (which you definitely need the SDK), and if they themselves said there was a "professional/military" version, you need the "military" version of DCS World for a professional product... and on top of that they claimed that when they finished it, they were going to make the DCS World version for us. Whoever doesn't want to see it, let them not see it, but they are the first ones who have given "wings" to this matter.

Let's not even talk about the "famous" image Ron posted of a model of the A-29 for the "military" DCSWorld.

Edited 10 hours ago by Silver_Dragon

[NineLine]

4 minutes ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Then maybe some clarity and transparency by the source, ED, would help both sides. 

Problem is that unless both side corroborate the info, then we just have a he said she said. I am not sure why this is hard to understand. And if one side doesn't, then you just get people fighting over their favorite side, and you achieve nothing. So waiting on a solution, one way or another, is the one way to go. 

[Hammer1-1]

1 hour ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

Please indicate where this has been stated by anyone at ED?

never said they did.

[Mike Force Team]

Maybe Santa Claus will bring us a Christmas present. Hopefully, it would be an official, permanent, final, and concluding resolution to this ongoing issue. 

[Hammer1-1]

56 minutes ago, Aapje said:

The first part is so vague to be impossible to judge. 

Yet oddly enough, all the evidence says thats exactly what happened, huh...something you seem to not want to acknowledge because even though its the narrative that practically explains it all 100%, you dont want to believe it because it goes against "your team". Dont care; one of these days you're going to have to acknowledge the fact that Razbam isnt all that great a company you think they are. Or you can continue BS'ing yourself and VVV

[Kang]

1 hour ago, Hammer1-1 said:

No, Im saying ED isnt paying Razbam because they're using their SDK in a manner they arent supposed to...using it for one of EDs potential customers for a profit behind ED's back. A govt contract. Im saying if Razbam's modules were top quality, they could probably get away with small things like that...and lets face it: their modules are about average. Not above, not below. About what is expected of you if you punch a clock every single day. Just...never completed, its like the gravy train that rolls on and on and on and on

In all fairness, their modules are mostly average because there was a time, not so long ago, when one could argue that most modules available were theirs. In a way you could say they defined the average.

[Nightdare]

6 hours ago, JuiceIsLoose said:

ED can absolutely provide what this "breach of contract" was. They are choosing not to. I for one, don't just blindly accept their statement.

 

You keep pointing at ED's statements 

But has RB told you why they aren't getting paid?

 

 

We would be much more open to objectivity towards RB if they actually had a plausible defense, something which ED did put forward

Now, you CHOOSE not to believe ED and try to paint that belief as gospel, but you show us NOTHING to argue in RB's defense

[aaronwhite]

3 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

This is a pretty naive POV. This isn't a criminal case with a single charge so it's a zero-sum game. It's a business dispute. The problem with ED splitting the difference is that it sets precedence for exploitation. It also assumes that DCS is the only line of revenue ED has.

Also, given the literal trail of abandoned Razbam products and burned customers out there since the FSX days, how could one specify a single actor here as the 'bad guy?' That is, unless you get informed through a constant stream of unfunny memes. As a business dispute, ED will shoulder some fault. That's how it almost always goes with business disputes of this nature. That's just how it is. But to shovel blame entirely onto one party? That's the mark of someone who has never been privy to running anything. 

 

I have noticed that these kinds of individuals will state something as fact when when I've asked them to back it up by providing a source? Silence. In this very thread, someone mentioned Boeing, I asked them about it and crickets. 

Yeah, I'd take that subreddit in particular with a grain of salt. The regular Hoggit community is already salty enough on their own, but "DCS Exposed" is next-level salt levels.

[Mainstay]

When is the goodbye "we are parting our own ways" party planned? 

 

[MicroShket]

2 часа назад, Kang сказал:

In all fairness, their modules are mostly average because there was a time

Their products were bul very average even in the time of FSX before DCS.  And there were competitors.

[Kang]

You know, and here I thought that the 3rd party partnerships for DCS meant that we weren't all going to die hopeless and alone...

[Tank50us]

28 minutes ago, Kang said:

You know, and here I thought that the 3rd party partnerships for DCS meant that we weren't all going to die hopeless and alone...

I mean... I feel that way right now, but for reasons outside of DCS... Namely life treating my intestines like the perfect target for a 12G Shotgun....

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

9 hours ago, Hammer1-1 said:

the last place on earth for accurate information would be reddit with blue sky being a very close second.

Honestly, there's no need to single out any particular social media websites, they're all absolute garbage for information. I don't care how cynical or jaded someone is, if you're seeking information from randos on social media, you're doing something very wrong. I'm not a fan of only coming to ED for this info, but it's just a game at the end of the day. If they irk me, I'll stop spending, it's an easy solution.

7 hours ago, aaronwhite said:

Yeah, I'd take that subreddit in particular with a grain of salt. The regular Hoggit community is already salty enough on their own, but "DCS Exposed" is next-level salt levels.

I didn't even glance to see what subreddit it was. Yeah, DCSExposed is something else. Literal muckrakers for a flight sim? I remember one guy BREAKING THE NEWS ABOUT THE TROUBLE AT POLYCHOP. You know, the dev that left and got subsequently replaced? A bunch of nothing, leading posts, and citing people that are utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

That was the one thread I went through on DCSExposed and that was enough. 

It's incredible that someone can be so vexed with a piece of software and a developer that they have to make a subreddit about it, but also continue to play the game. If ED were to tick me off that much? Uninstalled and I'm done. I'm just gonna find something else to spend my time and money with. There are other sims and other hobbies and I could just save that money and put it into real world flying. That simple.

There's nothing sadder than middle aged men playing internet detective about a niche video game.

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

DCSExposed

Lets not talk about that place, giving him any attention, good or bad, is what he wants, and we are not here for that. Thanks.