How to use ground weapons?

[ThorBrasil]

 

[Esac_mirmidon]

I´ve seen the video.

I´ve reproduced the steps, even Target 1 on a WP for the DTC

My bombs still fall way short where i am aiming

[The Gryphon]

32 minutes ago, ThorBrasil said:

 

Huge thanks to @Wags for a very well produced instruction video! 

For me it sorted out all question- marks in how to deploy ground attack weapons. Very cool that you included the DTC functions as well, atleast for me it asweared some remaining questions I had about the cartride functionality. 

If my mark 2.0 eyeballs is correctly calibrated, Wags seem very accurate in his bomb drops, so it can obviously be done. I better getting into my Fulcrum and start practise!

 

[Wags]

Except for the RBKs, I've found the weapons quite accurate when given a good bombing solution. There may be though other weapons that needs to be adjusted, I have not dropped them all.

Note that some modes will be less accurate than others, like CCIP Delayed mode and TOSS in particular.

Wags

[Esac_mirmidon]

Using FAB-500, default fuze, default timings.

OPT mode , CCIP, no predesignation. At least 30º dive angle, waiting for laser ON, waiting for CCIP moving up. 

Bombs falling short a little less than 100 meters

[NineLine]

8 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Using FAB-500, default fuze, default timings.

OPT mode , CCIP, no predesignation. At least 30º dive angle, waiting for laser ON, waiting for CCIP moving up. 

Bombs falling short a little less than 100 meters

Please provide a track and we will review. 

[Esac_mirmidon]

As requested @NineLine

2 bombing runs, both short, all parameters OK, CCIP, more than 30º dive, waiting for CCIP going up, laser ranging

Even the 2nd pass the dive is deeper but falling way short

BOMB TEST 29.trk

Edited Tuesday at 09:58 PM by Esac_mirmidon

[edineygomes]

2 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

Using FAB-500, default fuze, default timings.

OPT mode , CCIP, no predesignation. At least 30º dive angle, waiting for laser ON, waiting for CCIP moving up. 

Bombs falling short a little less than 100 meters

Same here

[NineLine]

2 hours ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

As requested @NineLine

2 bombing runs, both short, all parameters OK, CCIP, more than 30º dive, waiting for CCIP going up, laser ranging

Even the 2nd pass the dive is deeper but falling way short

BOMB TEST 29.trk 992.89 kB · 2 downloads

Ok, we figured it out, well Wags figured it out first. There is some issues in release that are already fixed on internal builds that he used for his video. I am hopeful that these fixes will make it into the next hotfix/patch. I will test the latest Release Candidate tonight and see. Thanks for your patience on this.

[NineLine]

Can confirm it seems much better in the release candidate. But let me know when you guys get it. Thanks!

[SlipHavoc]

There were some specific things that weren't addressed in the recent Wags video on Ground Attack in the MiG-29, so I experimented and put together some stuff that I've figured out that might be helpful to people:

1. The Air/Ground switch (left console forward) only affects the cannon symbology; it isn't needed for other A/G weapons.
2. The middle and outboard pylons are logically combined, and A/A weapons take priority in the weapon selection for those pylons.
3. You cannot fire/drop the middle pylons until either the outboards or the inboards are empty.  If the inboards are empty, set the Pylon switch to Inboard to select the middle pylons, and if the outboard pylons are empty, set the Pylon switch to Outboard.
   • This means if you are carrying R-27s or A/G weapons on the inboard pylons, you don't technically have to fire them before you can fire the middle pylon A/G weapons, as long as your outboard pylons are empty.
4. All weapons of the same type always fire/drop simultaneously, and from both sides.
5. If you turn off the laser designator (with Target Acquisition Symbol Control Button), you can't turn it back on for 30 seconds.

In other experimentation I've done, I found that the SAPHEI cannon ammo cannot damage a BMP-3, but the AP ammo can.  The AP still kills airplanes pretty well, but not as well as the SAPHEI.

I haven't figured out how to use the KMGU dispensers yet though.  They seem to only drop one bunch of bomblets rather than a continuous stream (even if the All/Single switch is set to All), and the accuracy is way off.  It sounds like the upcoming hotfix patch may at least fix the accuracy though, so I'm waiting until then to do any more experimenting with those.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks a lot @NineLine

You know sometimes i could be a little harsh because my passion with this simulator, but in the end you are always willing to help.

Edited yesterday at 07:46 AM by Esac_mirmidon

[Esac_mirmidon]

The changes on the ground bombing are included in today´s patch?

I still see a huge inconsistence when bombing. CCIP still falls short like before. CCIP with predesignation feels better , spot on, BUT, it seems only with the first pair of bombs.

Repeating the same pattern for the other 2 bombs , doing exactly the same, makes them fall way short again ( both on CCIP or CCIP predeseg )

[BIGNEWY]

13 minutes ago, Esac_mirmidon said:

The changes on the ground bombing are included in today´s patch?

I still see a huge inconsistence when bombing. CCIP still falls short like before. CCIP with predesignation feels better , spot on, BUT, it seems only with the first pair of bombs.

Repeating the same pattern for the other 2 bombs , doing exactly the same, makes them fall way short again ( both on CCIP or CCIP predeseg )

please feel free to add a track replay example we can check, if you do it on Caucasus it would be optimal. 

thanks

[Esac_mirmidon]

Will do again showing my tests. Thanks Bignewy

[Esac_mirmidon]

Track for CCIP, no predesg, 2 bombing runs, all short. @BIGNEWY

 

BOMB TEST 29 CCIP.trk

Edited yesterday at 05:21 PM by Esac_mirmidon

[diditopgun]

Hi !

_ I can confirm bombs falling short. I played mirmidon track as player, and it fall short. I created a similar mission (.track attached) like his own myself, and bombs fall short. (FAB 500 fall shorter than FAB 250)

 

_ I noticed another issue within my training mission (.miz file attached):

First, air start with a DTC loaded, NOLA (no lauch authorized) was displayed on the HUD et bombing piper (as well as laser predesignator piper if using it) was way off and over sensitive in roll under 12000ft. 

In a second time I did the same without any DTC loaded and the NOLA issue disappeared. No problem to do a bombing run under 12000ft.

Then I discovered that in the DTC, in weapon's tab the target point selected was "point 1" wich was on a mountain at 12000ft... So I set it to "point 2" wich is on my target area near sea level.

As a result, no more NOLA issue under 12000ft with the DTC loaded.

So is it an issue or does it work as intended ? That would mean it's mandatory to define a target point in the DTC for the bombing system to work properly. With only one target area available in the mission and no change of target area location possible in flight ? I'm doubtful...

BOMBS FALL SHORT MIG29 CCIP.trk Mig-29A Caucasus.miz

Edited 22 hours ago by diditopgun

[Esac_mirmidon]

Thanks for taking your time watching my track.

My mission has a Target point over the Batumi Cross, with the altitude reference, so as far as i know, every step is by the book

[Dragon1-1]

18 hours ago, SlipHavoc said:

In other experimentation I've done, I found that the SAPHEI cannon ammo cannot damage a BMP-3, but the AP ammo can.  The AP still kills airplanes pretty well, but not as well as the SAPHEI.

This is realistic. SAPHEI is not really armor piercing (hence semi armor piercing), it can deal with basic armor, but it's more of a HE and incendiary round that simply doesn't go off on the first thing it touches, like pure HEI does. It's basically a combined effects round that works best against soft skinned targets like aircraft or trucks. It can punch through something armored against small arms fire, but real plating, like on a BMP-3, will defeat the round.

Edited 20 hours ago by Dragon1-1

[JayDee1974]

Can some please try to also check the bombing slant range? I just took a calculator and the slant range during bombing is always a minimum of 0.1 NM and sometimes more short. That equals more then 100 feet ground distance. I my bombs also always fall short, even though I do the same as mr. Wagner in his video. Here are 3 screenshot pairs. With simple math one can calculate the slant range = SquareRoot of Distance Squared + Height Squared. In one case the slant range was even less then the flat ground distance (1st screenshot pair). I tried with and without Laser On. Maybe I am missing something, I am not the youngest anymore. I also reported this as a bug on the Discord.

Also the range scaling during bombing doesn´t work. It always is fixed on 2.5 nm range scale. During Rocketing the scale startes at 12.5 NM.

 

Cheers 

 

[AeriaGloria]

48 minutes ago, JayDee1974 said:

Can some please try to also check the bombing slant range? I just took a calculator and the slant range during bombing is always a minimum of 0.1 NM and sometimes more short. That equals more then 100 feet ground distance. I my bombs also always fall short, even though I do the same as mr. Wagner in his video. Here are 3 screenshot pairs. With simple math one can calculate the slant range = SquareRoot of Distance Squared + Height Squared. In one case the slant range was even less then the flat ground distance (1st screenshot pair). I tried with and without Laser On. Maybe I am missing something, I am not the youngest anymore. I also reported this as a bug on the Discord.

Also the range scaling during bombing doesn´t work. It always is fixed on 2.5 nm range scale. During Rocketing the scale startes at 12.5 NM.

 

Cheers 

 

You’re laser isn’t on and radar altimeter ranging won’t work at high dive angles. 
 

Once off the laser needs 32 seconds to stay off before it can be used again. And if triggered will stay on for 30 seconds (you can turn it off early with target acquisition depress). 
 

Wait until you can use laser and see the “A” on the HUD

[SlipHavoc]

After the hotfix patch, I still can't get KGMUs to work reliably.  They still fall short, and still only dispense only a single cluster of bomblets even though I'm holding the pickle button.  Has anyone gotten them to work?  And if so, how?

[JayDee1974]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb AeriaGloria:

You’re laser isn’t on and radar altimeter ranging won’t work at high dive angles. 
 

Once off the laser needs 32 seconds to stay off before it can be used again. And if triggered will stay on for 30 seconds (you can turn it off early with target acquisition depress). 
 

Wait until you can use laser and see the “A” on the HUD

I know that. But it makes no difference. And the higher the angle the less the difference. Laser won´t even sometimes come on, when manually engaged. 

Here screenshots with laser on. manually calculated slant range is 2.016 and it shows less than 2 in HUD. I used the altitudes from the map to calculate.

Edited 10 hours ago by JayDee1974

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, JayDee1974 said:

I know that. But it makes no difference. And the higher the angle the less the difference. Laser won´t even sometimes come on, when manually engaged. 

Here screenshots with laser on. manually calculated slant range is 2.016 and it shows less than 2 in HUD. I used the altitudes from the map to calculate.

Yes I have noticed issues with slant range also. 
 

As for the laser, once turned on it runs for 30 seconds (unless manually turned off). It then stays off for 32 seconds (can’t even be manually turned on), so you have to wait a bit sometimes.