cailean_556 Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago When I talk of imbalance, I don't mean giving each side weapons with the same range or capabilities. I mean in terms of options. With the reveal (perhaps unintentional, but still) that a Rafale is coming to DCS, it appears that yet another BLUFOR aircraft is entering the DCS hangar. That's great new for DCS, especially for BLUFOR pilots, but leaves REDFOR feeling unloved (regardless of the many, legitimate reasons why). The BLUFOR line up looks like this (in no specific order): -F-100D Super Saber -Tornado IDS -F-15C (AIM-120 and AIM-9X capable) -F-35A (AIM-120 and AIM-9X capable, GBU-12/31/32) -Typhoon (Meteor, IRIS-T, AIM-120 and AIM-9L capable) -Rafale (meaning MICA capable, at a minimum) -C-130 (Release soon) -A-7E -A-6E -A-1H Skyraider -Kfir C2/C7 The REDFOR line up, as far as I am aware, currently looks like this -MiG-29A (Released in EA at time of writing) -Su-25A Grach (ED has hinted, but not committed to/announced officially) With the Dynamic Campaign coming to DCS in the near future (release still TBC), anyone wishing to play 'REDFOR' in a Dynamic Campaign is going to either be a) relying on more sophisticated AI-only aircraft (such as the Tu-22M3, Su-24MR, Su-34 and [graphically hideous] Su-30) for much of its high-performance SEAD, anti-ship and all-weather strike capabilities, b) being unable to undertake particular mission sets (such as SEAD and all-weather strike) with the full-fidelity modules they have or c) relying on Flaming Cliffs 3-level aircraft modules - particularly the Su-25T and Su-25 - to conduct any form of guided/precision strikes or SEAD themselves. REDFOR needs a Cold War-era Flanker. The most obvious and "quick win" Flanker for ED to produce as a full-fidelity module is the Su-27S Flanker-B. It is essentially to the FC-3 Su-27, what the MiG-29A Fulcrum is to the FC3 MiG-29A: A full-fidelity module of the same aircraft, but with better presentation. The Su-27S was capable of unguided ground-attack - they were, by treaty, later 'upgraded' to Su-27P standard to remove their ground attack capability. If the MiG-29A Fulcrum was well-received, a full-fidelity Flanker is going to exceed that. REDFOR needs a modern Flanker. The Su-27S will scratch the Cold War itch however, when you place the MiG-29A and a hypothetical Su-27S into a more modern scenario - they show their age against post-2000s BLUFOR AMRAAM-capable (or equivalent) jets. The most capable/advanced full-fidelity 'REDFOR' jet currently is the JF-17 which doesn't even belong to a major 'Cold War' nation. To compete against BLUFOR in this manner, REDFOR needs a more modern Flanker. To this end, I propose the Su-30MKK. -It is an early 2000s-developed Flanker. -It is a non-canard (i.e. not MKI-derived) Flanker that doesn't have thrust-vectoring ("simplified" development). -Uses the N001VE Mech radar (an export version of the Su-27s radar, modified for China specifically - for use with R-77) -Despite being a Chinese-specific variant, it uses predominantly Russian weapons systems already in DCS. -It is a two-seat Flanker intended for both air dominance and ground/sea attack, a REDFOR option for a Strike Eagle. -Utilises R-73, R-27, R-77, Kh-29T, Kh-31, Kh-35 and Kh-59 in addition to Russian unguided and laser/TV-guided ordnance. -It is capable of in-flight refueling - a first for a full-fidelity Russian-designed REDFOR aircraft. -By having a second seat, it enables the development of an AI 'backseater' - which alone justifies a 'new module' and not a 'modernised' old one. -It is capable of using and firing the AA-12/R-77 - making it the first full-fidelity REDFOR aircraft capable of doing so. -The Su-30MKK is the base model for variants of the Flanker used by Vietnam, Uganda, Venezuela, Indonesia, China (obviously) and Russia. -Russia uses the Su-30M2 (which is a 'Russianised' Su-30MK2 - a more advanced variant of the Su-30MKK) in its air force as a lead-in trainer. Why I see the Su-30MKK as being more viable than the more advanced Su-30MKI (or an MKI-derviative) is because it's an older export aircraft, its systems are less capable than the Su-27SM, Su-35S, Su-30SM/SM2, Su-30MKI, Su-30MK2, J-11BS or J-16 - but it still provides options that aren't available to other REDFOR modules based on its intended role - air dominance and strike. It would draw massive interest due to having an AI-backseater (which ED is no stranger to, for helos - and ED could draw from Heatblur's experience in fixed-wing AI-backseaters to expedite development). The aircraft could be used (by players) as a stand-in for countries that use MKI-derived Flanker variants, including Russia. While, "pound for pound" it might not be the exact equal of post-2000s BLUFOR aircraft, it is certainly a dramatic step-up in terms of full-fidelity capability for REDFOR aircraft enthusiasts. Thank you for reading. 1 1
draconus Posted 6 hours ago Posted 6 hours ago (edited) 1 hour ago, cailean_556 said: REDFOR needs a Cold War-era Flanker. REDFOR needs a modern Flanker. Yes, would be nice and is of course requested for years, every week but the reasons are still the same: redfor sells worse that US made aircraft docs and SME's are more hard to find and use as a source legally even looking for it may endanger ED - especially its russian/belarus employees 1 hour ago, cailean_556 said: Su-25A Grach (ED has hinted, but not committed to/announced officially) If it's in newsletter then it's official but mind it won't be full fidelity. Moreover ED claims that they'll look how MiG-29A Fulcrum sales go and if it's good they'll reconsider doing more/modern redfor aircraft. Edited 5 hours ago by draconus 1 Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX4070S Quest 3 T16000M VPC CDT-VMAX TFRP FC3 MiG-29A F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria
MAXsenna Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago Pretty sure we'll get both FF Su-25 and FF Su-27 if the MiG-29 sells well. So, do your part everyone!I truly wish we could get more Cold War aircraft.Oh, ok and BTW. You can add the F-8 to your list I suppose. Even if it hasn't been officially announced yet.Cheers! Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk 2
Silver_Dragon Posted 55 minutes ago Posted 55 minutes ago (edited) 7 hours ago, cailean_556 said: The BLUFOR line up looks like this (in no specific order): -F-100D Super Saber -Tornado IDS -F-15C (AIM-120 and AIM-9X capable) -F-35A (AIM-120 and AIM-9X capable, GBU-12/31/32) -Typhoon (Meteor, IRIS-T, AIM-120 and AIM-9L capable) -Rafale (meaning MICA capable, at a minimum) -C-130 (Release soon) -A-7E -A-6E -A-1H Skyraider -Kfir C2/C7 The REDFOR line up, as far as I am aware, currently looks like this -MiG-29A (Released in EA at time of writing) -Su-25A Grach (ED has hinted, but not committed to/announced officially) With the Dynamic Campaign coming to DCS in the near future (release still TBC), anyone wishing to play 'REDFOR' in a Dynamic Campaign is going to either be a) relying on more sophisticated AI-only aircraft (such as the Tu-22M3, Su-24MR, Su-34 and [graphically hideous] Su-30) for much of its high-performance SEAD, anti-ship and all-weather strike capabilities, b) being unable to undertake particular mission sets (such as SEAD and all-weather strike) with the full-fidelity modules they have or c) relying on Flaming Cliffs 3-level aircraft modules - particularly the Su-25T and Su-25 - to conduct any form of guided/precision strikes or SEAD themselves. REDFOR needs a Cold War-era Flanker. The most obvious and "quick win" Flanker for ED to produce as a full-fidelity module is the Su-27S Flanker-B. It is essentially to the FC-3 Su-27, what the MiG-29A Fulcrum is to the FC3 MiG-29A: A full-fidelity module of the same aircraft, but with better presentation. The Su-27S was capable of unguided ground-attack - they were, by treaty, later 'upgraded' to Su-27P standard to remove their ground attack capability. If the MiG-29A Fulcrum was well-received, a full-fidelity Flanker is going to exceed that. REDFOR needs a modern Flanker. The Su-27S will scratch the Cold War itch however, when you place the MiG-29A and a hypothetical Su-27S into a more modern scenario - they show their age against post-2000s BLUFOR AMRAAM-capable (or equivalent) jets. The most capable/advanced full-fidelity 'REDFOR' jet currently is the JF-17 which doesn't even belong to a major 'Cold War' nation. To compete against BLUFOR in this manner, REDFOR needs a more modern Flanker. To this end, I propose the Su-30MKK. -It is an early 2000s-developed Flanker. -It is a non-canard (i.e. not MKI-derived) Flanker that doesn't have thrust-vectoring ("simplified" development). -Uses the N001VE Mech radar (an export version of the Su-27s radar, modified for China specifically - for use with R-77) -Despite being a Chinese-specific variant, it uses predominantly Russian weapons systems already in DCS. -It is a two-seat Flanker intended for both air dominance and ground/sea attack, a REDFOR option for a Strike Eagle. -Utilises R-73, R-27, R-77, Kh-29T, Kh-31, Kh-35 and Kh-59 in addition to Russian unguided and laser/TV-guided ordnance. -It is capable of in-flight refueling - a first for a full-fidelity Russian-designed REDFOR aircraft. -By having a second seat, it enables the development of an AI 'backseater' - which alone justifies a 'new module' and not a 'modernised' old one. -It is capable of using and firing the AA-12/R-77 - making it the first full-fidelity REDFOR aircraft capable of doing so. -The Su-30MKK is the base model for variants of the Flanker used by Vietnam, Uganda, Venezuela, Indonesia, China (obviously) and Russia. -Russia uses the Su-30M2 (which is a 'Russianised' Su-30MK2 - a more advanced variant of the Su-30MKK) in its air force as a lead-in trainer. Why I see the Su-30MKK as being more viable than the more advanced Su-30MKI (or an MKI-derviative) is because it's an older export aircraft, its systems are less capable than the Su-27SM, Su-35S, Su-30SM/SM2, Su-30MKI, Su-30MK2, J-11BS or J-16 - but it still provides options that aren't available to other REDFOR modules based on its intended role - air dominance and strike. It would draw massive interest due to having an AI-backseater (which ED is no stranger to, for helos - and ED could draw from Heatblur's experience in fixed-wing AI-backseaters to expedite development). The aircraft could be used (by players) as a stand-in for countries that use MKI-derived Flanker variants, including Russia. While, "pound for pound" it might not be the exact equal of post-2000s BLUFOR aircraft, it is certainly a dramatic step-up in terms of full-fidelity capability for REDFOR aircraft enthusiasts. Thank you for reading. Remember: First: DCS World has no "Balance". Many of that projects has 3rd Party projects, no ED. 3rd party select projects by your criteria (normaly by countries). The Mig-29A by ED, has build with info the a old Warsac Pact country, no Russia. ED has faced a sales ban from certain companies in Russia (helicopter manufacturers), resulting in the removal of several modules related to red helicopters. As Wags claim on previous Q&A, the problem has the available info, SME, resources, time and licenses to make a FF Redforce aircraft, remember the problems by Deka to make a chinesse FF aircrafts. ED has none plans to a 2010/20 Redforce aircraft. About ED projects: Su-25A FF has no claimed by ED yet, as a Su-27 FF, A-10A FF and other Mig-29 FC versions. Await ED share news about them. Actual future ED projects F6F Hellcat (Blue) F-15C (Blue) F-35A (Blue) Future Helo (Blue and/or Red) A6M5 Zero (Red) About 3rd Party projects: Aerges Mirage F-1M (Blue) F-104G/TF-104G (Blue) Airplane Simulation Company C-130J (Blue) Aviron KFIR (Blue/Red). Crosstail Studios A-1H (Blue) Deka Ironwork J-8B PP (Red) FlyingIrons Simulations: A-7E (Blue) HeatBlur Simulations: Eurofighter Trench 1 (Blue) A-6E (Blue) F-14A (Early) (Blue/Red) F-14B(U) (Blue) IndiaFoxtEcho: G.91R Gina (Blue) Magnitude 3 LLC: F-8J (Blue) Mig-21bis 2.0 (Red) MilTech 5 / PD: Bo-105 (Blue) Octopus-G La-7 (Red) Po-2 (Red) Su-17 (Red) Polychop Future Helo (Blue?) Red Star Studios: Mig-17F (Red) The Rafale has only a rumor, none 3rd party has claimed them yet. Edited 18 minutes ago by Silver_Dragon For Work/Gaming: 28" Philips 246E Monitor - Ryzen 7 1800X - 32 GB DDR4 - nVidia RTX1080 - SSD 860 EVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 1 TB / 860 QVO 2 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Warthog / TPR / MDF
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