Announcing Flaming Cliffs 2.0

[Vekkinho]

Most of the FPS in DCS are "eaten away" by Ka-50 advanced flight model.

 

With Simple Flight models of flyables in FC2.0 we can expect better performance.

 

Ka-50 is a NOE flyer. With F-15C you're usually at 20000ft, ground details less visible- better FPS...

[Bucic]

Occupational hazard. :D

 

But yes - "should". I am 99% sure since technically this should be more a case of DX and OS versions. So as long as a DCS-engined product sits on Vista or 7 the "trick" should work as expected. On XP it will not work since XP is crap.

 

But do note that I am a moderator, not a tester, so I can't add that final percent of certainty. ;)

The only thing future rioters got from this statement of yours is that they have 99% right to hang you on a tree branch if it won't work :D

 

I'll be good now. No more OT.

[Vekkinho]

OMG I need that! Can you PM me on how to do it? Thanks in advanced. :thumbup:

 

You can edit sound files located in Lock On\Sounds\Computer\RF.

 

You can rename "Queen - Another one bites the dust".ogg to a pullup.ogg and it starts playing each time you're about to CFIT.

[Rikus]

Raven, if the sim don´t go smooth in your pc, you can always drecrease the graphical options.

 

Cool to se that chart with Windows 7 too

 

Greetings

[Bucic]

Rikus, I did that test a year ago. Soon after that I switched to Windows 7 and I got *at least the same increase in performance when affinity trick was used on Vista*. AFAIK other people with windows 7 reported same as *...*. For more detailed information and discussion please visit one of the affinity related topics.

 

IMHO, if affinity trick working with FC 2.0 gets confirmed the information should be included not only in the FAQ but also in the FC 2.0 features list :)

[EvilBivol-1]

Limited 6 DOF as implemented in the Su-27 cockpit for FC2:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=790234&postcount=13

[Bucic]

Limited 6 DOF as implemented in the Su-27 cockpit for FC2:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=790234&postcount=13

Is head movement along and rotation around X (aircraft longitudinal) axis possible?

[Sawamura]

Limited 6 DOF as implemented in the Su-27 cockpit for FC2:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=790234&postcount=13

 

 

Mh that means no 3D cockpit like in the Ka-50?

[Bucic]

Mh that means no 3D cockpit like in the Ka-50?

Not like Ka-50.

 

FAQ

Q: Why are the Flaming Cliffs 2.0 limited 6 DOF and not full 6 DOF?

A: Unlike the Ka-50 cockpit in DCS: Black Shark, the Flaming Cliffs 2.0 cockpits are not full 3D in every aspect that allows unlimited 6 DOF movement around the cockpit. Yaw, pitch, and Z-axis are as they were in Flaming Cliffs, but X, Y, and roll are limited.

[MoGas]

I wont be buying it because i bought Black Shark, and was very disapointed with the DCS engine, I dont want to downgrade from LOMAC engine to DCS Engine. It was uninstalled from my PC a week after i bought it, but i still enjoy LOMAC FC 1.0 much more.

 

What i didnt like:

 

-the monitor resolution switching between menu and sim, this shortens the life of your monitor dramatically. Looks and feels like a Beta product because of this.

 

-the copy protection that has made my DVD player no longer read CDs even though i've uninstalled Black Shark now, and reinstalled windows it still has the problem and not only that, all of my freinds also have the same issue and so none of my freinds are buying another DCS product until the protection is removed. And as its stated here that the copy protection was an amazing success then that clearly will be never again that i buy a DCS sim.

 

It was uninstalled from my PC a week after buying it due to these problems but i still play Lock On as it has a better engine with no major faults.

 

What really amazes me about the decision to use DCS engine for FC 2.0:

 

-The map is smaller and so cannot do long flights with fixed wing aircraft. The DCS Map was made that way as Helicopters took longer to fly places so a larger map was not required.

 

-Who in their right mind would want to fly adversarial online in a Ka50 on a server where there are enemy aircraft that they cant shoot at. They would just get obliterated. Also, why bother with having Ka50s flying around in Coop either if your in a fixed wing. You can get the job done much quicker with a fixed wing, be home at base within an hour and the Ka50 wont have even got half way to target, LOL.:lol:

 

 

Sure, fix the switching of menus so it wont destroy my monitor, take off the copy protection so that it wont destroy my DVD player, give us the same size map as you get in Lock ON, and then i MIGHT buy it. But to honest, as you dont get anything other than a downgrade to DCS engine, i would much rather carry on with LOMAC FC 1.0 and wait for SOW:BOB.

 

What a nonsense, was postet here OMG :doh:

[Pilotasso]

Mh that means no 3D cockpit like in the Ka-50?

 

Not like Ka-50.

 

FAQ

 

A fan made 3d pit would easely fix that. :)

[DoctorK]

Is head movement along and rotation around X (aircraft longitudinal) axis possible?

Yes.

You can see it in this FC2 video.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=47242

[Bucic]

Yes.

You can see it in this FC2 video.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=47242

So it is limited 6DOF. If the two movements were not possible it would be 4DOF.

[Boberro]

I wont be buying it because i bought Black Shark, and was very disapointed with the DCS engine, I dont want to downgrade from LOMAC engine to DCS Engine. It was uninstalled from my PC a week after i bought it, but i still enjoy LOMAC FC 1.0 much more.

 

What i didnt like:

 

-the monitor resolution switching between menu and sim, this shortens the life of your monitor dramatically. Looks and feels like a Beta product because of this.

 

-the copy protection that has made my DVD player no longer read CDs even though i've uninstalled Black Shark now, and reinstalled windows it still has the problem and not only that, all of my freinds also have the same issue and so none of my freinds are buying another DCS product until the protection is removed. And as its stated here that the copy protection was an amazing success then that clearly will be never again that i buy a DCS sim.

 

It was uninstalled from my PC a week after buying it due to these problems but i still play Lock On as it has a better engine with no major faults.

 

What really amazes me about the decision to use DCS engine for FC 2.0:

 

-The map is smaller and so cannot do long flights with fixed wing aircraft. The DCS Map was made that way as Helicopters took longer to fly places so a larger map was not required.

 

-Who in their right mind would want to fly adversarial online in a Ka50 on a server where there are enemy aircraft that they cant shoot at. They would just get obliterated. Also, why bother with having Ka50s flying around in Coop either if your in a fixed wing. You can get the job done much quicker with a fixed wing, be home at base within an hour and the Ka50 wont have even got half way to target, LOL.:lol:

 

 

Sure, fix the switching of menus so it wont destroy my monitor, take off the copy protection so that it wont destroy my DVD player, give us the same size map as you get in Lock ON, and then i MIGHT buy it. But to honest, as you dont get anything other than a downgrade to DCS engine, i would much rather carry on with LOMAC FC 1.0 and wait for SOW:BOB.

 

:crazy:

[Rikus]

I saw the video, low level flight, 1.100 ias and i don´t feel speed...

 

Greetings

[Panzertard]

Most of the FPS in DCS are "eaten away" by Ka-50 advanced flight model.

 

With Simple Flight models of flyables in FC2.0 we can expect better performance.

 

Ka-50 is a NOE flyer. With F-15C you're usually at 20000ft, ground details less visible- better FPS...

 

Quite true - not been able to find how much that cost is in regards of FPS:

Additionally it seem the FPS is eaten away by the Advanced Cockpit of the DCS, with all the high-res dials / shkval.

Yesterday I briefly noticed the difference between in-cockpit view and outside in a very heavy mission.

- 20-25 FPS inside

- 40-60 in external view.

[Panzertard]

Sorry to hear you're dissapointed, Shrike.

I had many similar worries when I started flying the DCS. I've learned to understand a bit more about those features over time.

I wont be buying it because i bought Black Shark, and was very disapointed with the DCS engine, I dont want to downgrade from LOMAC engine to DCS Engine. It was uninstalled from my PC a week after i bought it, but i still enjoy LOMAC FC 1.0 much more.

 

What i didnt like:

 

-the monitor resolution switching between menu and sim, this shortens the life of your monitor dramatically. Looks and feels like a Beta product because of this.

The main reason is because the Main menu is presented using OpenGL.

In case you wanted to edit you mission / change setups - you wouldnt have to change resolutions.

Thus saving your monitor - not that I have heard any of my monitors pop yet because of all the different resolution I use (LCD here, not CRT).

I've never heard about such with people wearing out their monitor because of resolution changes anyway ... :)

 

The game-engine presents it's content by using DirectX - but due to FPS constrains, you may need a different resolution.

I think it's great to be able to work in the Main menu GUI in full resolution. :)

 

-the copy protection that has made my DVD player no longer read CDs even though i've uninstalled Black Shark now, and reinstalled windows it still has the problem and not only that, all of my freinds also have the same issue and so none of my freinds are buying another DCS product until the protection is removed. And as its stated here that the copy protection was an amazing success then that clearly will be never again that i buy a DCS sim.

In general I agree with you. I "hate" anything that gives me more job to run my PC / OS and keep it healthy over time.

Luckily I've been using the SF on several computers with no impact on the PC/OS itself. I no longer fear "the dreaded SF". :)

 

But I DO understand and respect the need ED have to protect their work - it's what pays for their dinners ...

SF is one of the current and "popular" methods of ensuring that your dinner lands on your table after a hard day at work. ;)

In the future - who knows, it may change.

 

It was uninstalled from my PC a week after buying it due to these problems but i still play Lock On as it has a better engine with no major faults.

 

What really amazes me about the decision to use DCS engine for FC 2.0:

 

-The map is smaller and so cannot do long flights with fixed wing aircraft. The DCS Map was made that way as Helicopters took longer to fly places so a larger map was not required.

It's a choice for ED - because of memory limitations, engine limitations and performance.

- There's no 64bit version of the game-engine available - it takes time to build one that takes advantage of all the memory available.

- You cannot have greater details on ground as well as maintaining the same amount of area. Something must go.

But "over time" we may see a better game engine - allowing for greater areas and good details for the ground-hogs.

 

-Who in their right mind would want to fly adversarial online in a Ka50 on a server where there are enemy aircraft that they cant shoot at. They would just get obliterated. Also, why bother with having Ka50s flying around in Coop either if your in a fixed wing. You can get the job done much quicker with a fixed wing, be home at base within an hour and the Ka50 wont have even got half way to target, LOL.:lol:

- Who: Squadrons with a proper planned mission schedule. Or random mission servers with a good mission setup.

- What: SAR missions, or MUD movers missions. Will require Air-supremacy. <-- Good thing.

And or any combnation of what flyers do in real-life while at work. ;)

 

If someone plays "Air-Quake" then they wont use the feature (FC<-->DCS) anyway, because all they do is to fly around and "shoot stuff, z0mg I rawk!". ;)

[Mustang]

I wont be buying it because i bought Black Shark, and was very disapointed with the DCS engine, I dont want to downgrade from LOMAC engine to DCS Engine. It was uninstalled from my PC a week after i bought it, but i still enjoy LOMAC FC 1.0 much more.

 

What i didnt like:

 

-the monitor resolution switching between menu and sim, this shortens the life of your monitor dramatically. Looks and feels like a Beta product because of this.

 

-the copy protection that has made my DVD player no longer read CDs even though i've uninstalled Black Shark now, and reinstalled windows it still has the problem and not only that, all of my freinds also have the same issue and so none of my freinds are buying another DCS product until the protection is removed. And as its stated here that the copy protection was an amazing success then that clearly will be never again that i buy a DCS sim.

 

It was uninstalled from my PC a week after buying it due to these problems but i still play Lock On as it has a better engine with no major faults.

 

What really amazes me about the decision to use DCS engine for FC 2.0:

 

-The map is smaller and so cannot do long flights with fixed wing aircraft. The DCS Map was made that way as Helicopters took longer to fly places so a larger map was not required.

 

-Who in their right mind would want to fly adversarial online in a Ka50 on a server where there are enemy aircraft that they cant shoot at. They would just get obliterated. Also, why bother with having Ka50s flying around in Coop either if your in a fixed wing. You can get the job done much quicker with a fixed wing, be home at base within an hour and the Ka50 wont have even got half way to target, LOL.:lol:

 

 

Sure, fix the switching of menus so it wont destroy my monitor, take off the copy protection so that it wont destroy my DVD player, give us the same size map as you get in Lock ON, and then i MIGHT buy it. But to honest, as you dont get anything other than a downgrade to DCS engine, i would much rather carry on with LOMAC FC 1.0 and wait for SOW:BOB.

 

[pauldy]

Well a company (Eagle Dynamics for example..) can not really please everyone.

 

Nevertheless, the most important thing is that, this Flamming Cliffs 2.0 is anticipated by majority of us enthusiasts. Which is a great sign since their work would pay off.

 

 

Though I think (in my opinion ok? ;)) that he has a point regarding the Ka-50 amidst the SFM fixed wings we got.

 

Considering the way most multiplayer missions go, it's like an Air combat version of Half Life or Quake. Wherein majority of players fly a one-pilot show as opposed to real air forces that uses teamwork.

 

and the map did got smaller a bit (Wished some airbases in Turkey were included too ~ :D) ..or so it seems..

 

But don't get me wrong, I would still get this FC 2.0 program once i see it in our local software stores~ :)

[71st_Mastiff]

You do realize that people, who just started jumping walls in happiness, may soon want to hang you on a tree branch if it will not work, right? :D

 

Also I get better FPS in DCS Black Shark, so I hope to get the same for 2.0.

[Shrike_UK]

My Thanks goes to Crunch, Feuerfalke (for an interesting post even if you did hit a few nerves, lol), and Panzertard -Thank you for your more technical insight...

 

I realise my post was a bit contraversial, and some were quick to flame, however it is/was genuineley how i felt, so i would like to take time to explain, after all thoughts are built on experiences and i have my experiences that i hadn't really explained.

"Downgrade" to DCS engine?

Maybe you should UPGRADE you pc? Runs smooth as silk here.

And even during beta 1 of Black Shark (2006 or so), i have never had, to this day, any of the problems you are reffering to.

Noone is forcing you to buy any DCS title. As the series progress, you will really miss out on something big. Trust me.

Yes i think i will miss out to a certain degree, i do still have doubts tho. I have bought nearly all flight sims since Ah64A Apache on the Sinclair Spectrum 48k, and Microprose F117 Stealth Fighter on C64, Gunship 2000 on Amiga A600, Falcon 4. I really dont want to miss one.

Regards to PC performance, i could run BlackShark on medium settings, and it ran very smoothly, so credit where its due, my 3 year old PC could run it on the improved graphics well (over 30fps), so i was impressed with the development teams optimisations. Obviously a lot of good work had been done in that department.

By downgrading, i pureley meant the points i mentioned, such as smaller map and better continuity between GUI and Engine.

By the way, love your videos :)

 

Wow! I never heard of such a thing. Do you have proof of changing resolution hurting your monitor. Also, I never saw what the big deal was about having a different executable for GUI and game.

No, i dont have proof, however when i hear others saying that frequent switching of resolution does kill off your monitor fast, and thinking about the fact that yes your monitor does seem to be doing a lot of work to change resolution, personally i thought it was quite obvious that it was true myself thinking about the electrical charges that must be loaded around the capacitors and all that. I will be biased on the side of caution because i cant afford to keep buying monitors, they are expensive, and i've seen Nowhere that this theory is incorrect, googling it to death i find no results to answer my question, so, yes i dont have proof it does, but i find no proof it doesnt either.

However as Panzertard pointed out, and i guess its good coming from a tester that no monitors went pop thats very reassuring as i bet its been loaded up a ridiculous amount of times in testing. and yes im not on an ancient CRT, lol.

The only thing where the resolution switches is in the multiplayer-screens. And in case these are really shown not only in a lower image-resolution but a different monitor setting, you should enable your graphics-card scaling and there you go.

enable graphics card scaling? i'm not sure what that is, at least i dont see any scaling mentioned in the ATI Control Center options. If thats what i need then great!

I use my Native Monitor resolution for both desktop and ingame, as its the clearest.

 

The map is not that much smaller. I bet KM wise, maybe 100-200kms. Between the new airbases in DCS and say Anapa, I bet it is over 400kms. This is not a short distance.

It's a choice for ED - because of memory limitations, engine limitations and performance.

- There's no 64bit version of the game-engine available - it takes time to build one that takes advantage of all the memory available.

- You cannot have greater details on ground as well as maintaining the same amount of area. Something must go.

But "over time" we may see a better game engine - allowing for greater areas and good details for the ground-hogs.

Yes it may not be much less map, however some really good bits of the map were cut off, i used to make missions that included Kerch as a natural border (having the water between, having a land mass across some water adds a lot of variation for your missions, and sadly most of Kerch is cut out. And theres no replacement island-like bit of terrain to attack anymore.

 

I am sorry you had problems. You can really guarantee that the same version of copy protection used in DCS trashed your drive? SF has been updated numerous times. I have never had an issue with it.

That is utter nonsense. DCS does no longer install drivers, so there simply cannot be a driver conflict that would cause such an effect.

Of course, if you removed the copy-protection by some pirate software, you might have collected yourself a virus or something which would then again explain your experiences.

Crunch: No but i have a LITEON DVD/CD Writer, and many previous titles have used copy protection which makes games incompatible with LITEON, i know the reason why but can't explain here for security reasons, so im always cautious of that, however, i find it very strange indeed that after 3 years, and not having installed any software (literally anything, except windows updates) and then my CD laser decides not to work anymore the very next day after installing BS, what other conclusion could i draw?? I asked around and strangely my freinds all have had a similar issue. What seems to have happened is the DVD/CD Burners have 2 lasers, one for DVD the other for CD, and basically i cannot install LOMAC because its on a CD, and i cannot play music CDs anymore. So that means the CD laser is not operating properly anymore and isnt that a strange coincidence?

Feuer: Why does the copy protection need to reboot your pc?, this is because certain things have to be set at pre-OS boot, at BIOS level, this can only mean Hardware interaction. Plus an amazing co-incidence as i mentioned to Crunch above. As a developer myself i really dislike piracy in any shape or form because i know what its like to have my work that i sweated blood to complete get hijacked by some loser who didnt work at all but takes the credit. You could not be more wrong if you think i have ever downloaded anything pirated, but i wont take it personally, i know you sound like tyou dislike those people as much as i do.

Panzertard: Thank you for your decent words, and yes i agree with you about protection as per my reason i explained to Feuer, its just some seem a bit OTT. When you look at other protection systems like Steam for example (some might want to flame me no doubt for saying this) but i quite like the fact it dont invade anything, and the level of protection is sufficient for a lot of developers. Im not a Steam fan, but it does seem less painful.

 

Yeah, just that fixed wings are a much better target for AAA and SAMs, because they rarely fly as low as a helo. And since they fly so low, they won't be just easy targets for jets. In return, though, try to fight that Ka-50 that is taking your airbase defenses out, so his teammates can attack your base, or the other Ka-50 that fires it's missile, while you are still taxiing to your runway.

Really LOL - so much wanna-be-experience in DCS and you didn't notice that Ka-50s take off from FARPs. While you take off in your jet from 80 miles behind the lines, I will be taking off from my FARP some 5 miles behind the frontline and LOL when you drop your bombs on long-burned out targets.

Yes okay i take it back. Thats a situation i wasnt thinking about having not really got into a Heli sim for over 10 years. Oh and if i was a wannabe, then why did i uninstall it? lol. You made a point and your right about the usage of farps no need to go over the top.

 

And to the more Fiesty ones....

LOL - downgrade to DCS.

That as much downgrading as going from a Smart to a Porsche.

LOL if you lived where i come from you wouldnt want a Porsche unless you like claiming insurance every day because of vandals.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrike_UK

.....i would much rather carry on with LOMAC FC 1.0......

Phew!!......For a moment there I thought you were going to be Sticking Around

Better hope i dont, i'm good with guns, like my last ex-squad member that joined your squadron after we disbanded. ;) lol.

 

Cant beleive i'm level 3 for notoriety on these boards, LOL thats a first for me. Im not that sort normally. I guess i should've expected some to be very protective.... nvm.

[104th_Crunch]

Maybe ED can add this to the credits..

"Lock On 2.0: No monitors were harmed in the making of this game"

 

:) Just joking around

[159th_Viper]

...I realise my post was a bit contraversial...

 

Always better to Think before one Speaks! It's not your Opinion that I had an issue with, however Misguided I thought it to Be.....It's the Manner in which you Expressed said Opinion ;)

 

.....i do still have doubts tho.....

 

Which are?

 

If I attempt to make sense of your previous posts, the only hangup you seem to have is the Copy-Protection, right?

 

Yeah - we have the 'Monitor Implosion' issue, which by your Own Admission is a Non-Starter :)

 

I mean - No Disrespect Intended, but your Flawed Logic really had me in stitches...........

and i've seen Nowhere that this theory is incorrect, googling it to death i find no results to answer my question, so, yes i dont have proof it does, but i find no proof it doesnt either.

 

So, that aside, Back to Copy Protection.

 

 

 

.....By downgrading, i pureley meant the points i mentioned, such as smaller map.....

 

Almost missed this one.......

 

Smaller? OK - From a 'Point A to Point B' perspective, yeah, approx a 100km smaller, give or take a couple. 100 Klicks not a Ball-Buster by any stretch of the Imagination.

 

Now - Ponder over what you get as opposed to what you lost. Surely the introduction of the Georgian Theater of Operations more than makes up for the Flat Expanse of Terrain lost? Would have thought so, especially having regard to the Topography and the obvious correlation that can been implemented in Mission Scenarios with the recent Georgian Conflict.

 

 

And theres no replacement island-like bit of terrain to attack anymore.

 

How about Dams, Valleys, Lakes, Snow-Capped Plateau's and so much more.......

 

 

however, i find it very strange indeed that after 3 years, and not having installed any software (literally anything, except windows updates) and then my CD laser decides not to work anymore the very next day after installing BS, what other conclusion could i draw?? I asked around and strangely my freinds all have had a similar issue. What seems to have happened is the DVD/CD Burners have 2 lasers, one for DVD the other for CD, and basically i cannot install LOMAC because its on a CD, and i cannot play music CDs anymore. So that means the CD laser is not operating properly anymore and isnt that a strange coincidence?

 

Back to the Copy-Protection.......

 

Again - Fatally Flawed Logic!

 

Nothing wrong with a Heated, Constructive debate. Personally - I love it. Fundamentally Important however that you Argue/Debate from a position of Strength. Had you attempted to delve into the Mysteries that is the Current Copy-Protection utilized, ie StarForce Proactive, you would have been pleasantly surprised:

 

2. Protection driver

 

 

2.1 Do the applications that require activation via the Internet use the protection driver?

 

 

No! Since such applications require no optical media in the drive and do not check the uniqueness of such media, they require no protection against optical drive emulators, and therefore, do not use special protection driver designed to work with optical media.

 

 

More Info Here

 

 

So when all is said and done, what are we left with?

 

A 'Small Map' ?

[AustinN360]

Crunch: No but i have a LITEON DVD/CD Writer, and many previous titles have used copy protection which makes games incompatible with LITEON, i know the reason why but can't explain here for security reasons, so im always cautious of that, however, i find it very strange indeed that after 3 years, and not having installed any software (literally anything, except windows updates) and then my CD laser decides not to work anymore the very next day after installing BS, what other conclusion could i draw?? I asked around and strangely my freinds all have had a similar issue. What seems to have happened is the DVD/CD Burners have 2 lasers, one for DVD the other for CD, and basically i cannot install LOMAC because its on a CD, and i cannot play music CDs anymore. So that means the CD laser is not operating properly anymore and isnt that a strange coincidence?

 

This is total and utter BS. I have 2 i repeat 2 holdon maybe you didn't get that I have 2 LiteOn CD/DVDrws in 2 machines. 1 a two year old IDE and the other a 2 month old SATA, (both were bought from Argos) and I have NOT had ANY problems with either of them and I have both DCS and Lockon and have installed and re-installed both on my 2 machines several times. My girlfriend can confirm this as she has ripped quite a few cd's onto her system and I have played several music cd's on mine even straight after installing either Lockon or DCS. I don't know whats going on with your system mate, if a lazer burns out it's proberbly the drive itself and NOT DCS. So next time, replace the drive and leave Eagle Dynamics out of it!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Vekkinho]

I never had no problems with Starforce so far, hardware/software wise, your DVD recorder turning into a CD player probably points to someone being in your room, playing with you, shifting your gear without notice!

 

:megalol: