DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

[shagrat]

Which is not the best of ideas (auto mode), cause the system is quite good! I would recommend semi mode in high threat environment, contrary to what one would think, but the auto mode starts kicking countermeasures as soon as you are targeted by a radar or a launch is detected... dispenses all quite quickly early in the mission.

Edited July 2, 2014 by shagrat

[Sceptre]

I always use manual Countermeasures, with 4 chaff and 2 flares every 0.25 seconds, and set it to fire 4 or 5 times. Works like a charm, and I rarely get show down by missiles with this on.

Also, it's make another program so slowly dispense chaff when being spiked by an EWR or getting locked up from long range.

[Archer7]

I'm fairly sure the issue was CDU alignment.

 

I believe I tried switching to EGI navigation before alignment was complete but it wouldn't let me and I couldn't understand why so I restarted alignment and then probably moved before INS was done aligning.

 

What’s the easiest way to switch between enemies with the TGP? Yesterday I came to think of using mark points, switching to mark mode and simply toggling between them while using the china hat to stay slewed towards them. Is that the ideal way?

[Sceptre]

Is that the ideal way?

 

yes

[Scrim]

Which is not the best of ideas, cause the system is quite good! I would recommend semi mode in high threat environment, contrary to what one would think, but the auto mode starts kicking countermeasures as soon as you are targeted by a radar or a launch is detected... dispenses all quite quickly early in the mission.

 

Agreed. Semi is the best option the way I see it, as it allows you to cycle to other programs IIRC so you can drop preventive CMS, doesn't waste your flares, and from my experience in DCS and BMS, as well as reading account from RL pilots, your plane (using the RWR and MWS) will in 99% of the time tell you that something is launched before you detect it yourself and will determine what it is better than you as well. Since you already rely on it to that extent, you might as well let your plane determine what CMS program is best suited to the situation.

 

I'd use Auto, but as has been established, that would spend the CMS far to soon due to things that you can easily figure out is a bogus threat, as well as the fact that it locks you into one program, making preventive CMS impractical.

[Maverick-X]

My counter measures mode has a mind of its own and constantly changes the mode I select.A-mode is default and has no flares so I press D whenever I get in the plane but it constantly changes to all the other letters.:helpsmilie: Also,when I press the toggle switch it sometimes jumps back as I am pressing it which makes me think I have a control conflict somewhere.Anyone know what the toggle switch is under in controls?

 

I'd like to take the chance and propagate my video on countermeasures ^^

[ENO]

I think in practice in the sim the only thing that works is either lots of chaff or lots of flares- so manual is the best way (IMO).

 

You need to know how to set your own programs, however- and once I learned to do that then it was simple.

 

Just right click on the CMS panel switch on the far right hand side- and you'll see the current program settings. Then just click the one you want to change (the square button underneath that item) and then use the rocker on the right hand side to increase or decrease. Choose your quantity, and time, and cycles... done.

 

My A program is basically just a friendly single flare (in the event my wingie loses me)- B program is uber flare and C is uber chaff- 4 bundle .25 second interval for 20+). If I can see the missile has been decoyed then I just stop the program.

 

I used to have a different setup for preventative flaring but I think it's generally agreed that it doesn't work anyway so I moved away from it.

 

Semi isn't bad but it still doesn't quite cut it- again only my opinion.

Edited July 1, 2014 by ENO

[Scrim]

My A program is basically just a friendly single flare (in the event my wingie loses me)

 

Why not just bring up the map on either MFD and look for the plane marker?

[ENO]

Yeah- that's awesome if my wingie is another A-10C

[shagrat]

Why not just bring up the map on either MFD and look for the plane marker?

 

Heads down vs. situational awareness!

[Archer7]

So what start-up sequences do you guys use?

 

I've been through the detailed one in the manual, checklist and training mission and I believe they are all a bit different from each other.

If I’m not mistaken some of them also miss some things… notably the detailed one in the manual never tells you to turn on JTRS, I believe.

There are also some confusing steps such as turning on and off SAS about three times and exterior light switches not on the panel.

 

I’ve written my own 23-step post-it for now and it took about 10 minutes, doing stuff while other stuff was aligning and turning on so it was really efficient. Everything from battery on to ready for take-off on the runway. Includes everything except some emergency switch tests and exterior lights.

 

I know there are some good checklists on the wiki. I’m going to go over there and compare them to my own. Wouldn’t want to miss something.

I want a start as quick as possible but without skipping anything that usually matter... and maybe I'll do every step in the book when I'm recording a track and want to show off.

 

By the way does the “random systems failure”-or-something-such option in the options menu make it so there are sometimes broken systems in the very start of a mission or does it only simply make your aircraft randomly stop working mid-mission?

With all switches always set the same I see little reason for a lot of pre-flight checks, speed brake checks and so on unless there’s a chance for failure. I know custom missions can include failures but can the built-in missions?

 

Oh and one thing I don’t understand: there are some “disable” switches (engine, fuel, something) on the left console close to the boost pump switches that are supposed to be “depressed” according to the pre-flight check section in the manual.

Does that mean up (no-pressed) or down (pressed)? I’m not sure if the word “depressed” in this context is a bit like the word “inflammable” confusingly meaning flammable. I have those switches not pressed down, up, but at the start of all missions they are down it seems.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Archer7

[shagrat]

AW: DCS A-10C QUESTIONS

 

Last first. Down is correct.

The pre-flight check is helpful to ensure a safe startup without damage to systems IIRC... in the SIM it is a bit useless at the first start, because the buttons are always set the same... unless you specifically prepare a mission otherwise, though it is more theoretical.

If you did a hasty landing after taking damage. Shut down the aircraft as quickly as possible and repair... now you are uncertain how the switches should be set to get her started again, that's where the pre-flight check may help.

 

For the startup checklist, I guess it is not uncommon to write down your own. I did it. Others did it. It helps memorizing things. Just take care not to forget something.

In the wiki there is one derived from the original A-10.

 

Random failures appear, well, random... though I never experienced one on the ground I had multiple directly after take off or a few minutes into mission. I wouldn't be surprised if failures occur on the ground given enough time!

Edited July 1, 2014 by shagrat

[PFunk1606688187]

from my experience in DCS and BMS, as well as reading account from RL pilots, your plane (using the RWR and MWS) will in 99% of the time tell you that something is launched before you detect it yourself and will determine what it is better than you as well. Since you already rely on it to that extent, you might as well let your plane determine what CMS program is best suited to the situation.

The problem is that while real pilots might do one thing its also dependent on the systems they use. DCS CMS bears little resemblance to the real thing insofar as its actual behavior. The threat logic of the A-10C CMS is too stupid to allow it to select the proper program. Its better to come up with custom programs of your own that you know work well against certain threats and just manually cycle the profiles in advance of the most likely threat.

 

Its also worth noting that the CMS is not infallible. The RWR and MWS do not have 100% reliability for detecting missile launches. I have seen phantom launches that I can't identify and I've seen missile launches happen in plain view of the aircraft with no missile launch warning. This is in many ways a very realistic behavior. Real pilots practice mutual support for a very good reason: systems are not 100% reliable. Wingmen always cover the attacker, watch for missile launches, direct the defender through his jink.

 

Put it this way. Semi mode got a ping from a radar thats well outside of threat range and won't be on your flight path. Its simplistic threat logic though picks out a chaff program on standby. A few minutes later while ingressing to attack you hear your wingman yell "missile launch! your 3 o'clock!". Well what just happened? Your RWR didn't say anything, but you don't have any time to think, you have to start your jink because IR SAMs give no response time. Well since the CMS didn't pick up this launch for whatever reason when you kick into your current CMS profile you dump a bunch of chaff but no flares. Oops. Now you're dead, or relying purely on maneuvering to defeat.

 

This is why I always use manual. Even if you select the right profile ahead of time an errant radar contact could reset it without you noticing. Real life I'm sure the CMS logic is WAY better but nevertheless this aint real life.

 

 

Random failures appear, well, random... though I never experienced one on the ground I had multiple directly after take off or a few minutes into mission. I wouldn't be surprised if failures occur on the ground given enough time!

I've had an APU fail to start on the ground. Battery on, inverter on, fuel available, no reason for it to not work other than a random failure.

 

As for start up I usually go for a right to left scanflow. Batt, inverter, APU, then I start flipping on switches starting on the right aft panel, through the centre console, then to the left side. By the time the APU is on the bus I have everything flipped on that doesn't need an alignment or an engine running.

[shagrat]

Yeah! It is most important, that you get your procedure smooth and consistent. It does not matter if you do it different from others. If you don't forget anything and can repeat all steps quick and fluent even under pressure it is good enough.

I myself had to refine my flow two or three times, though one was owned to the changes in beta stage :D

[Trase]

I have a small problem. Whenever I play an automatically generated mission, my JTAC always says "No further tasking available" message, when there's clearly enemies all over the map.

[shagrat]

Yes, known problem... The JTAC usually has no line of sight (yet?)

Either you need to "optimize" JTAC positions in the Mission Editor manually - that's what I do, most of the time - or you have to repeat the request from time to time, until he spots a target.

The message doesn't necessarily mean "no more enemies", but "no enemies visual, at the moment", as well.

[Trase]

Thanks, I'll look into it. Do you have a preferred way of placing them so they don't get shot? I recall hearing about a way to make enemies known to JTAC from the start. Some followup questions: I entered L/L coordinates of a stationary target that I got from the F10 map view (when highlighting an object) into my CDU, triple checked them, and created a markpoint. But it was far away from the actual target (500+ meters). What's up with that? And can I set my map view to display UTM coordinates instead?

[shagrat]

Change the coordinate system of the F10-map with Left Alt + Y (check Keyboard layout german keyboard would be Alt+Z!)... 500m in L/L sounds a bit much, sure you zoomed in to the maximum and did not move the mouse a tiny bit? Also if you attack a unit of a group, usually the whole group disperses. If you have a group that is stationary (no waypoints) and deliberately distributed over a larger area,still all targets change their position after an attack.

[shagrat]

Thanks, I'll look into it. Do you have a preferred way of placing them so they don't get shot? I recall hearing about a way to make enemies known to JTAC from the start. Some followup questions: I entered L/L coordinates of a stationary target that I got from the F10 map view (when highlighting an object) into my CDU, triple checked them, and created a markpoint. But it was far away from the actual target (500+ meters). What's up with that? And can I set my map view to display UTM coordinates instead?

You should set the JTAC units to INVISIBLE and to be fair set ROE to "Hold fire".

AI is looking through trees, so only buildings and terrain break line of sight for both... if you want a JTAC to designate a specific group(s) you may add FAC engage tasks and activate "target visible" so line of sight isn't required.

You'll find a manual to the Mission Editor in the GUI Manual underDCS World as a starting point. :book::thumbup:

[Trase]

Thank you about the JTAC tips. And to your previous post: Yes, I checked it with shift+F10. Maybe I made some novice mistake? Please check these screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/hdZX9 (as you can see, the markpoint is 0.8km away from the actual tank). Is there any cons to just creating an airplane jtac that will circle around at a safe distance?

Edited July 2, 2014 by Trase

[shagrat]

Sorry, need to be a little nitpicky here. :)

 

It takes time to align the Inertial Navigation System INS. GPS needs some time to receive signals from the satellites, but the really long process is INS alignment, not GPS alignment. :thumbup:

 

Also, I think it's only about 4 minutes in the A-10C, whereas it takes about 8 minutes in the F-16 simulated in Falcon 4 (SP4 and newer; haven't flown any Falcon 4 in ages, though).

 

Okay, done nitpicking. :D

Yeah, absolutely correct! It's the INS, but for the startup it doesn't make a difference, unfortunately. The whole EGI needs to be functional and GPS coordinates won't be available to the IFFCC until EGI system is up... that is why correct startup is so important. Systems depend on one another and if you miss a thing, all goes haywire!

 

And the 4 minute it is! Actually you can see by the countdown on the CDU screen... :thumbup:

[shagrat]

Thank you about the JTAC tips. And to your previous post: Yes, I checked it with shift+F10. Maybe I made some novice mistake? Please check these screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/hdZX9 (as you can see, the markpoint is 0.8km away from the actual tank). Is there any cons to just creating an airplane jtac that will circle around at a safe distance?

No, AFAC task with a Predator or Reaper drone work, only they will sometimes be shot down by SAMs etc. ...well set them to invisible.:smilewink:

 

Asfor the coordinates it seems there is mixing of the last two digits in the Unit info box!!! What are the cursor coordinates (at the top bar) when positioned above the tank, fully zoomed in? Easting "52 or "25?

[shagrat]

...on the other hand. A practical way is, to simply narrow down the area, slave the TGPto the MarkPoint and search the exact position of the tank. A spotter / JTAC may not have an accurate 10m grid in real life, but a nearby terrain feature or 100m grid or worse and need you to search there.

I advise not to get used to pulling exact enemy coordinates from the F10 map. Most missions especially Multiplayer won't allow seeing enemy positions on the map.

If your lucky Fog of War is enabled, but it is a good idea to learn your way around visually spotting targets, or transfering terrain features (villages, streets, power lines, rivers) to the TAD map and use the TAD cursor to place a Markpoint somewhere near. Or simply put the TDC in the HUD to the suspected position and mark/set SPI directly...

[Trase]

Thank you for all the support!

[Archer7]

Is the Allied Flight Reports setting realistic?

Also is the IFFCC bit test necessary?

 

Also here's my current start-up:

1. Battery, Inverter, AC, Oxygen, Canopy.

2. APU 100%, Tests, APU generator, CDU, EGI.

3. VHF AM, VHF FM, UHF, Set, Contact ATC (engine start-up).

4. Boost pumps, Engines 60%, 1 minute controls check, APU generator off, APU off.

5. SAS, TO/TRIM, Anti-skid, Nose-wheel steering, Ejection seat arm.

6. MFCD, CICU, JTRS, IFFCC, Enter.

7. CMS, Load all, Enter, IFFCC, TAD, CDU, FLT PLAN.

8. Nav, EGI, EAC, RA, SAI, Contact ATC (taxi).

 

1. Basics

2. APU

3. Contact ATC

4. Engines and controls

5. Ready avionic stuff

6. Electronics

7. CMS then more electronics

8. Navigation and contact ATC again

 

6 and a half minute.

 

Some considerations: minimal noise (canopy then APU) and APU on as short time as possible which I believe is a good thing because I believe it is some sort of battery? Anyways...

6 minutes seems to be the minimum since it takes about 45 seconds to start the battery, inverter, APU, APU generator, CDU and EGI and alignment takes 5m15s.

If you do:

1. Battery, Inverter, APU.

2. AC, Oxygen, Canopy, APU generator, CDU, EGI.

Skipping the tests, then you can come down to 6 minutes. If you do stuff while the engines are spinning up you can go a lot lower than that but since you have to wait for alignment you may as well mediate a while as the engines start.

 

Only things I'm not happy about is that the tests are during APU start when otherwise is a good time to take a general look around the cockpit and CMS and FLT PLAN don't quite fit where they are now.

 

Oh and I don't have anything about the exterior lights included in there because I still don't know how I'm supposed to work them... when to have them on and in what setting and when I turn them off again.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Archer7